The All Things Terry Thread

[SkinsGuru]

he is looking damn greedy and selfish!! me, me, me!!

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think we should also remember that Terry already was rewarded for dealing with the Snyder era by being overpaid on his last contract.

Absolutely. That's part of the reason why I don't give Terry a break for being high strung and holding out this time. He did the same thing last time. And according to a beat guy (I believe it was Keim), the negotiation wasn't going hot but Dan interferred and said just get it done because he needed a positive PR hit.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I am going to continue to push-back on those that want to lay the blame completely for the situation at the feet of Terry’s current agent. Not because he is blameless but because he is seemingly not providing his client with a reasonable and measured evaluation of the facts on the ground. There is, however, a (high) probability that he is simply driving the car in which Terry is in control of the GPS. In fact, beyond probability imo, he is simply navigating a route that his client has designed.

There is little doubt in my mind that this negotiation would already have been settled if a Tom Condon or Ben Dogra from CAA or a Drew Rosenhaus were the agent. The reason? Because they are unafraid to speak truth to talent with their clients and they also have the respect and relationships with those who control the checkbooks. Neither qualities of which Mr. Baker seems to possess from outside looking in.

I lump that into the "getting bad advice" bucket myself.

Getting advice can either be a) "here do this" or b) "no, don't do that."

And either case, the agent is has a lot of responsibility.

Now I will concede this: if the agent is telling Terry "Dude, you're not going to get that, no way, no how" and Terry is doing his best Cuba Gooding Jr. impression and saying "SHOW ME THE MON-EY!!!!" then there's little the agent can do.

However, and now I freely admin I'm speculating, I don't think if Terry said "I want Ja'mar Chase's contract" and the agent said, "Here are the 5 reasons why that's an unreasonable ask and I think you should aim at (insert another comp here), " I just feel Terry would be receptive to that conversation.

Maybe not. But I don't have any reason to believe he would ignore the advice of his representatives.

Which is why I go back to, I think he's getting bad advice. Either in the absence of good advice or the providing of bad advice.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Can Harris pull favors to get Terry a better endorsement deal in exchange for a smaller contract? 😉

Yes. He sure could.

I think there are rules against that.

Yes. There sure are.



This would be akin to getting around the Salary Cap. "Hey, sign with us for $3.50/year, and then we'll set up up with "Nike for a $50m a year deal."

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think the other difference with Kirk is he didn't hold out, didn't really whine much publicly and was willing to call the team's bluff in that he was good with hitting FA. I don't get the impression Terry wants to test FA because he and his agent likely know they won't get that big contract they want on the open market.

There's also a timing difference with Kirk.

Kirk was going into free agency, and the "worst" that could happen was he would get franchised, which is the average of the top 5 contracts, so he was going to get top 5 money regardless. This is after the 2015 season. Then after the 2016 season, he'd already made ~$20m in a fully guaranteed contract on the franchise tag, and the "worst" case was he got $24m and then got to free agency the next year. Which is what happened. So there wasn't much to whine about.

Terry feels like he is being under-paid this year, hence the fuss. And he's probably not entirely wrong. Also, if he just plays out his contract, he could get franchised next year. Which would work well for the team, but that means Terry won't hit FA until his age 32 season, which isn't ideal for him.

This is why I think a VERY short, maybe as short as 1 year, extension, at most 2 years, should be the play for both teams. That would include a good signing bonus, fully guarantee his 2025 salary, fully guaranteed 2026 season, not fully guaranteed 2027 season. The signing bonus + 2026 + 2027 can be made to equal an AAV of ~$30m/year. Hell, dump an extra $15m into 2027 if you want to boost the AAV, Terry would never see it. This would still get him to FA in his age 33 season, but he would have the knowledge he's getting the next 2 years at $30m AAV fully guaranteed, or would be released after 2 years and could get to FA. Or the deal could be reworked then.

If they just did the 1 year extension, with a signing bonus + fully guaranteed 2026 at the franchise tag rate, that's probably $45m of new money, and you could guarantee almost all of it. And

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Absolutely. That's part of the reason why I don't give Terry a break for being high strung and holding out this time. He did the same thing last time. And according to a beat guy (I believe it was Keim), the negotiation wasn't going hot but Dan interferred and said just get it done because he needed a positive PR hit.

I don't remember hearing this, but I don't dispute that's something Dan would have done. I also think Ron was kindof a fool so it's possible things weren't going well because Ron and the Marty's didn't know what they were doing either.

 

[skinsinparadise]

There's also a timing difference with Kirk.

Kirk was going into free agency, and the "worst" that could happen was he would get franchised, which is the average of the top 5 contracts, so he was going to get top 5 money regardless. This is after the 2015 season. Then after the 2016 season, he'd already made ~$20m in a fully guaranteed contract on the franchise tag, and the "worst" case was he got $24m and then got to free agency the next year. Which is what happened. So there wasn't much to whine about.

Terry feels like he is being under-paid this year, hence the fuss. And he's probably not entirely wrong. Also, if he just plays out his contract, he could get franchised next year. Which would work well for the team, but that means Terry won't hit FA until his age 32 season, which isn't ideal for him.

This is why I think a VERY short, maybe as short as 1 year, extension, at most 2 years, should be the play for both teams. That would include a good signing bonus, fully guarantee his 2025 salary, fully guaranteed 2026 season, not fully guaranteed 2027 season. The signing bonus + 2026 + 2027 can be made to equal an AAV of ~$30m/year. Hell, dump an extra $15m into 2027 if you want to boost the AAV, Terry would never see it. This would still get him to FA in his age 33 season, but he would have the knowledge he's getting the next 2 years at $30m AAV fully guaranteed, or would be released after 2 years and could get to FA. Or the deal could be reworked then.

If they just did the 1 year extension, with a signing bonus + fully guaranteed 2026 at the franchise tag rate, that's probably $45m of new money, and you could guarantee almost all of it. And

He averaged about 23 million a year for three years. Evans was on a deal over most of that same time at 16.5 million. Evans is likely going to the Hall of fame. From what I recall. I think someone here posted that Terry was paid top 5 salary for a WR for the previous contract he signed.

Terry sitting out for getting paid a measley 23 million a year on a contract he signed -- not the best look IMO. If I am dealing with a player who doesn't plan to honor his contract as it progresses -- I wouldn't care too much about rewarding that player.

But lets play along and say Terry is underpaid during the third year of their contract. Most good players are underpaid at the tail end of their contract, and arguably overpaid at the start of them -- that's how it works usually. They get paid something that's on the high end of the market initially. And that same salary over time lessens because of NFL inflation (salary cap rises).

So players can't have their cake and eat it too. If they could then they'd have a provision in their contract -- if by chance the cap rises, and said players who are about to hit FA get more -- I want an escalator in the contract so I get an extra 5 million or whatever. Now some players indeed act out that way when shockingly their contract in later years doesn't hold up the same way as comps in the early years -- Terry among the malcontents on that front - but most do not act out on it.

I get players would prefer to be overpaid at every step of the contract -- early and late. But that's kind of the drill. 33 million today feels high for example but 33 million in season 3 of the contract is a bit below the top of the market. That's how it rolls. By overpaid i mean they help set the market for players in their tier.

Going back to Kirk. He didn't hold out at any stages. There was multiple stages with franchising with him. He asked for what he wanted and when he didn't get it, he just let it play out. Now, Terry, letting it play out until 31 years old and hitting the market then, or waiting until he's 32 if the team franchises him at 31 -- its unlikely going to work out for him -- and why not? It's because Terry hitting the free market at 31 or 32 is unlikely going to produce some crazy market and crazy salary.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

skinsinparadise to be clear, I'm not saying Terry is being underpaid on the contract he signed, I'm saying HE is saying he's being underpaid.

I think he's really salty that he's going to hit FA at 31 and this stupid franchise wasted the prime of his career by making him play with the likes of [REDACTED], Sam Howell, Haskins (RIP), and a litany of other awful QBs and for just plain idiotic coaches and coordinators, and now he wants a top of the market contract because he believes he could be one of those guys and could have been one of those guys if circumstances had been different.

And he might be right.

But it doesn't matter. He's 30 and has one year left on his deal. He's not getting an extension taking him through his age 33 season at top 5 AAV. It's just not going to happen, and if he thinks it will, he's wrong. If his agent thinks it will, he's wrong. That's it and that's all.

 

[skinsinparadise]

skinsinparadise to be clear, I'm not saying Terry is being underpaid on the contract he signed, I'm saying HE is saying he's being underpaid.

I think he's really salty that he's going to hit FA at 31 and this stupid franchise wasted the prime of his career by making him play with the likes of [REDACTED], Sam Howell, Haskins (RIP), and a litany of other awful QBs and for just plain idiotic coaches and coordinators, and now he wants a top of the market contract because he believes he could be one of those guys and could have been one of those guys if circumstances had been different.

And he might be right.

But it doesn't matter. He's 30 and has one year left on his deal. He's not getting an extension taking him through his age 33 season at top 5 AAV. It's just not going to happen, and if he thinks it will, he's wrong. If his agent thinks it will, he's wrong. That's it and that's all.

Yeah agree he thinks he's been underpaid.

I think the only wild card here from Terry's perspective is I do think one team (and probably only one) is desperate enough to pay Terry what he wants, and that team is NE. They offered supposedly 30 million plus for Godwin. And were willing to overpay other FAs.

So then the question becomes if Terry demands a trade, is he willing to go to a team that doesn't win? My guess is yes. Seems to him that money > winning. And he's not alone on that but not everyone rocks that way.

The problem though for this team is the timing sucks for a trade. We are in win now mode. The draft and FA is over. I guess still some Wrs left in FA but nothing hot. And if NE is willingly overpay for Terry are they also willing to give up big compensation. I doubt even NE is willing to do both -- both overpay Terry and give up decent compensation.

 

[Conn]

its all about guaranteed numbers . . . so i say, 3 years total at 87 Million . . . fully guaranteed . . . and broken down like this:

year 1: 36 million
year 2: 30 million
year 3 - 21 million (BIG rookie QB contract may start this year)

He’s not getting a market-altering fully guaranteed deal lol, we aren’t the Browns and won’t do that to ourselves or the market for the rest of the league. We’re a regular franchise now not a dumbass factory

 

[mistertim]

Yeah agree he thinks he's been underpaid.

I think the only wild card here from Terry's perspective is I do think one team (and probably only one) is desperate enough to pay Terry what he wants, and that team is NE. They offered supposedly 30 million plus for Godwin. And were willing to overpay other FAs.

So then the question becomes if Terry demands a trade, is he willing to go to a team that doesn't win? My guess is yes. Seems to him that money > winning. And he's not alone on that but not everyone rocks that way.

The problem though for this team is the timing sucks for a trade. We are in win now mode. The draft and FA is over. I guess still some Wrs left in FA but nothing hot. And if NE is willingly overpay for Terry are they also willing to give up big compensation. I doubt even NE is willing to do both -- both overpay Terry and give up decent compensation.

Yeah, the Commanders could say "Ok, you want a trade? If you find a team that will pay you what you want and give us a 1st + 3rd round pick, we'll approve the deal"

It would never happen, and he'll end up back here, just like what happened with Deebo and SF in 2022.

 

[The Brotherhood]

I think AP and the Front Office definitely hold the cards here.

It's not their fault Terry finds himself in this situation, in the final year of his Snyder contract. Seems to me Terry hasn't read it clearly & hasn't rationally weighed up all the facts. Hence the emotive part of Terry's argument.

AP has already said we love Terry & we want him here, which wisely speaks to Terry's stated issue BUT at the same time you don't pay guys based on that.

 

[Neophyte]

He averaged about 23 million a year for three years. Evans was on a deal over most of that same time at 16.5 million. Evans is likely going to the Hall of fame. From what I recall. I think someone here posted that Terry was paid top 5 salary for a WR for the previous contract he signed.

You keep bringing up Mike Evans both financially and as a team guy. Perhaps a little prespecitive here:

2018 - Evans signed a deal making him the #1 paid WR in the league
2019 - Evans was the #4 paid WR in the league in year 2 of his contract
2020-2022 - Evans falls down the list playing on a deal he signed in 2018
2023 - At age 30, Evans signs a new deal with TB making him the #2 paid WR in the league, this after TB made Godwin the #4 best paid WR in the leage in 2021

Has Evans stayed loyal to TB? Yes. The Bucs also haven't hesitated to pay him compared to the rest of the league and that has to be taken into account.

I'd also add that when you look at the numbers for these guys and adjust for number of games played, Terry's numbers are fairly comparable to Evans' numbers, all while playing on a losing team with poor coaching and questionable quarterbacking.

The big difference here appears to be that Evans was takne #7 overall and Terry was a 3rd rounder. It shouldn't matter this late in a player's career but I think it does.

 

[skinsinparadise]

You keep bringing up Mike Evans both financially and as a team guy. Perhaps a little prespecitive here:

2018 - Evans signed a deal making him the #1 paid WR in the league
2019 - Evans was the #4 paid WR in the league in year 2 of his contract
2020-2022 - Evans falls down the list playing on a deal he signed in 2018
2023 - At age 30, Evans signs a new deal with TB making him the #2 paid WR in the league, this after TB made Godwin the #4 best paid WR in the leage in 2021

Has Evans stayed loyal to TB? Yes. The Bucs also haven't hesitated to pay him compared to the rest of the league and that has to be taken into account.

I'd also add that when you look at the numbers for these guys and adjust for number of games played, Terry's numbers are fairly comparable to Evans' numbers, all while playing on a losing team with poor coaching and questionable quarterbacking.

The big difference here appears to be that Evans was takne #7 overall and Terry was a 3rd rounder. It shouldn't matter this late in a player's career but I think it does.

Thanks. Some of your numbers don't jive with the numbers I pulled. Unless I am misunderstanding something, perhaps?

The younger years to me don't matter. Not that it matters to my point but Evans ended the 2nd highest paid in 2018, according to a web site I look at, and ultimately ended third for that year. But that was Evans at the peak of his powers. Evans at his best >> Terry.

Heck NFL GMs and coaches for ESPN just a couple of weeks ago ranked Evans as better than Terry right now. I don't know if I agree with that. But Evans at his best >> Terry. And my point is about 30 something Terry. If Terry was 25 and we were arguing the best is yet to come, I'd get Terry's side a bit more. But as to Evans-Terry comps to each their own. I respect any take on comps -- its somewhat subjective.

From what I saw, Evans' last contract was in 2024. What was in 2023? From what I saw his contract before that was 2018-2023.

Buccaneers, WR Mike Evans agree to terms on two-year, $52 million deal | Latest NFL News, Analysis & Updates | NFL.com

Star wide receiver Mike Evans won't test the free-agent market after all. The Buccaneers and Evans have agreed to a two-year contract to keep the star wideout in Tampa Bay, NFL Network Insider Mike Garafolo reported on Good Morning Football on Monday, per sources informed of the situation.

www.nfl.com

Buccaneers, WR Mike Evans agree to terms on two-year​

Published: Mar 04, 2024 at 09:12 AM

In 2024, at least according to this site he was the 20th highest paid WR.

NFL's highest-paid WRs: See full list of 2024 wide receiver salary rankings

When Justin Jefferson and the Minnesota Vikings agreed to a new contract in June, he became the highest-paid non-quarterback in the NFL.

sports.yahoo.com

As for in 2023, he was the 2nd highest paid?
According to this site, he was #17 in 2023, not #2.

NFL's highest-paid WRs: The top 33 wide receiver salaries for 2023 season

When the Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill to the Dolphins in March 2022, the move also set a benchmark for compensation for wide receivers.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Neophyte]

skinsinparadise

Totally fair. Here is my source for reference. To be honest, not sure whose numbers are "more right". NFL contracts are complicated beasts.

Over The Cap - Top Paid Wide Receivers by Year

I also think its hard to compare Evans and McLaurin at thier peaks. Wide Receivers live and die by who is throwing them the ball and the offensive scheme a team runs. That is why I say thier career numbers are pretty similiar when adjusted for games played (Evans has nearly 2x the total games).

Please understand, I'm not making an arguement for or against paying McLaurin. I'm putting my trust in Peters. However, I am saying that if you are going to use Evans as a comparison then the team needs to bite the bullet and pay Terry.

I know he is coming up fast on 30 but he has a lot less wear and tear on the tires than Evans did at 30 when TB gave him a bumper new deal.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Simeon]

Seems (to me at least) there is a consensus forming on the board:

1. Terry wants a good deal more $ than he is worth. Partly because his comparison levels are not valid, partly because he thinks his age doesn't matter, and
2. Largely because he is getting bad input from his agent.
3. This is especially irrational because the team can already keep him for much less than what he wants for the next 2-3 years like it or not.
4. His ego is definitely a major factor, maybe the biggest factor.
5. This is disappointing to us because we thought he was better than that and seeing him act like a diva doesn't fit with what we thought of him previously.

The main points above I care about are 1. and 3. I don't care as much why he is holding out and still think he will come around before the season starts. And I don't begrudge him acting out a bit during negotiations because everybody has ego episodes, especially around money. I believe he will be a great teammate and role model when he does. I will have a different take if this is still going on into the season.

I just can't see any team offering enough in trade to make it worth our while.

It might be time though to start thinking about what ifs. If the hold-in continues the most rational course for the team is too just sit tight and let him play out the season. But what if Terry really has gone irrational and thinks he can pressure the team? Suppose he thinks they will cave if he keeps on faking an injury or plays 3/4 speed, etc. so as to make the team overpay him on his current salary. This would obviously hurt him financially more than the Commanders because after the season no other team would want to pay franchise money (and he wants more) to an older player who didn't produce the previous year, is older, and tried to punish his team with a bad attitude while sitting out.

But what if. What if his ego and emotions have really taken over to the point he will do something that hurts himself just for spite? Do any of you think that is where we are headed? I just can't see it. Terry is too smart, bad agent or not and the math ain't there. I really think he comes around and accepts a deal that is more than what he has now but doesn't ask the team to pay a lot more than what they can keep him for already. Any team concessions are more likely to be in guarantees and incentives.

 

[skinsinparadise]

skinsinparadise

Totally fair. Here is my source for reference. To be honest, not sure whose numbers are "more right". NFL contracts are complicated beasts.

Over The Cap - Top Paid Wide Receivers by Year

Looks like that one you pulled, is based on cap hits. The one I pulled is based on salary. I get why you pulled it from there because their headline is deceiving -- "Top Paid". Going through it, its top cap hit. Which is different. But their headline-link is oddly deceiving.

Still the cap hits are fascinating to look at. lol, I just took a lot at a few players on that front so thanks for sharing that link. If I used that stat, it would actually kill Terry. Terry was 5th in 2024 and 3rd in 2025 which he finds unacceptable. But in his defense, cap hit isn't the salary.

Cap hit doesn't really match salary if you look at it year to year because it ebbs and flows based on the goals of the FO and how they structured contracts to make it work. You see this a lot with QBs of course where salaries are often backloaded to help the current status and bet on rising caps later on. Or sometimes teams front load them if they have a ton of cap room. It's whatever fits their cap advantage.

So for example yeah Evans as a cap hit was big early, then it was down to 27, in 2020, and 17 in 2021, and then back up again in 2022, and 2023. But that's totally about how that contract was structured.

With Evans new contract in 2024, he's ranked 35th in cap hit. that's ridiculously low but clearly that's because Tampa preferred to take the cap hit in 2025.

In short, cap hits are interestng. But its not about yearly salarly.

 

[Conn]

You keep bringing up Mike Evans both financially and as a team guy. Perhaps a little prespecitive here:

2018 - Evans signed a deal making him the #1 paid WR in the league
2019 - Evans was the #4 paid WR in the league in year 2 of his contract
2020-2022 - Evans falls down the list playing on a deal he signed in 2018
2023 - At age 30, Evans signs a new deal with TB making him the #2 paid WR in the league, this after TB made Godwin the #4 best paid WR in the leage in 2021

Has Evans stayed loyal to TB? Yes. The Bucs also haven't hesitated to pay him compared to the rest of the league and that has to be taken into account.

I'd also add that when you look at the numbers for these guys and adjust for number of games played, Terry's numbers are fairly comparable to Evans' numbers, all while playing on a losing team with poor coaching and questionable quarterbacking.

The big difference here appears to be that Evans was takne #7 overall and Terry was a 3rd rounder. It shouldn't matter this late in a player's career but I think it does.

Stats aside, Mike Evans was a 20-year old rookie while Terry was a 24-year old rookie. Sometimes life isn’t fair but a guy with 4 fewer prime years isn’t going to have the same career earnings (injuries aside), I think that’s common sense.

 

[RedWolf]

Talking about ad nauseam! You guys are EXTREME! LOL! 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Commander PK]

Some of what I’m seeing on social media (not here but elsewhere) is that a large portion of the fans just want the man paid whatever he wants. This is the latest example I’ve noticed of something with this fanbase over the years in that we literally fall in love with individual players. In my opinion to the detriment of the whole sometimes.

I’m also not a big fan of the idea that Terry was “the good soldier” through a lot of bullshit so he is entitled to something extra. Terry did his job he was paid to do. Being the good soldier was part of that job.

First and foremost, I am a Washington Commanders fan who wants to see the team win Super Bowls. Now, the team is the players, but not one of them is more important than the team itself.

I respect Terry and right now we are better with him than without…but the team existed before him and it will exist after him.