Taylor Heinicke Discussion

[Bulldog]

Washington didn't have an offensive identity for most of the 3 years Ron has been here.

For that 7 game stretch under Taylor an identity began to emerge but that was in part IMO based upon what Ron and Co thought the talent could bear.

Of course the lack of resources spent on the offensive line during that 3 year stretch have a huge impact here. In 3 years Ron Rivera spent ONE #2 pick on an offensive lineman, Sam Cosmi. That's it. No first rounders, no other second rounders, no third rounders.

The fact we are now hearing Mayhew and others talking about a ball control offense, limiting mistakes and having a game manager rather than a franchise passer to lead only says to me this team is further away from contending in the 2020's.

A new owner is really going to have to come in here and clean house.

 

[burgold]

Sort of a random thought, but I think Washington screwed up the QB situation two years in a row and not the way you think. They should have actually gone with Heinicke and declared him their starter from Day 1.

The reasoning is simple. Year 1: Heinicke coming off a surprising playoff performance is signed to a two year contract as a back up, but the team decides they need a starter. Who do they pick? 88 year old professional back up Ryan Fitzpatrick to be the starter. Fitzpatrick looks terrible in the preseason and falls in game 1 to injury. Moral with hindsight: Save the ten or twelve million because 1) the difference between Heinicke and Fitzpatrick didn't warrant the signing and 2) the team saves 10 or 12 million on their cap. Year 2: Heinicke after fading hard in the second half of his first year as a starter is doubted and Rivera and company declare their number one objective is to replace him. They choose Carson Wentz. They should have stuck with Heinicke. 1) Wentz was a flawed and broken QB who didn't fit Turner's system and had never played in it before. 2) The cost of Wentz prevented Washington from signing better players on the O-Line making Wentz look even worse. 3) The draft pick cost and salary cap cost was not superior to what Heinicke gave us.

Now, most of this is hindsight. Although in real time I said I'd have given Heinicke a shot if their best plan was Fitzpatrick with the logic being that if Heinicke fails then you get your choice of QBs in the draft and if Fitzpatrick succeeds you don't have a long term answer at QB anyway, but a 1 or 2 year bandage. The Wentz situation turned out worse. We definitely could have used that 20 million to shore up the line or maybe snag a linebacker. Since Heinicke outperformed Wentz, the loss of draftpicks stings. I talked myself into Wentz over Heinicke at the time of the signing. What we should have done is really build an offense for Heinicke and lived with the results if for no other reason than that's what we did anyway.

This brings me to the present. Again, Rivera is blaming everything on QB and saying how we have to find our answer. I say no. It's time to build with what we have. Let's live and die with that. If we die then maybe we get the kid from TCU and we have our Mahomes. If Howell turns into an above average QB or a good QB then you struck gold especially on the salary cap. Let's not revisit the mistakes of Heinicke by constantly trying to upgrade with players who wind up being mediocre or worse. The likelihood of grabbing a QB in free agency or trading for one that really will make us a perennial contender is almost nil. The Washington Commanders/Redskins have been the definition of insanity. Let's stop with the crazy.

 

[Boone]

I don’t think sticking with Heinicke changes much in terms of wins. He’s a limited talent. Wentz was a major mistake who cost us cap and assets. That’s a fireable offense in my book. But it’s an assumption that we would’ve use savings from committing to Heinicke to bolster the OL. I think they believed they did bolster the OL and that it would be fine. I agree with your last paragraph except the reason to go that route is that Howell is a much more talented QB than Heinicke (not better necessarily, that remains to be seen).

 

[Boone]

Scary thought of the day…

Would anyone be shocked if they continue with Wentz?

You heard both Mayhew and Rivera doubling down yesterday that the reason Wentz struggled was because he didn’t have Robinson healthy. There are about 10 reasons that argument makes zero sense and in fact is an outright distortion of the facts, but the fact they are making the argument should frighten us all. It’s a potential rationale for going back to Wentz again in 2023.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Scary thought of the day…

Would anyone be shocked if they continue with Wentz?

You heard both Mayhew and Rivera doubling down yesterday that the reason Wentz struggled was because he didn’t have Robinson healthy. There are about 10 reasons that argument makes zero sense and in fact is an outright distortion of the facts, but the fact they are making the argument should frighten us all. It’s a potential rationale for going back to Wentz again in 2023.

Shocked, no. Mad about it, you better believe it. If Wentz didn’t play against Cleveland, I could kind of see the argument to bring him back. He got hurt, Heinicke was playing well enough they didn’t want to rock the boat and go back to him. But that’s not what happened. They gave him a chance to play and it was a disaster. In my opinion, that was his chance for next year and he failed. You could say the offense struggled without Robinson, but that doesn’t explain his interceptions. And that is where most of the frustration came against Cleveland, when Robinson played. It just makes no sense to bring him back, which is why I won’t be surprised if they do.

 

[Boone]

Absolutely. But never underestimate this regime’s ability to rationalize and deflect.

 

[Chris]

It could be argued that the best thing that happened all year for the future of the team was Wentz starting vs Cleveland.

 

[Bulldog]

Just remember that Mayhew and Hurney were front office executives for teams that overall didn't finish .500 during their tenures.

So, we are looking a bit at the blind leading the blind.

If Rivera is listening to these guys, based on their track records, the results will be fortunate to keep this team in the .475 win percentage range.

 

[Chris]

I am resurrecting this thread because there are some of you, for some tough to figure reason, who have an appetite to talk about Taylor.

This ‘cross talk’ has disrupted several threads that have no connection to the topic. So…have at it here if you are so inclined.

 

[Henry]

Since you have requested to talk about this in this thread, I will simply add this: The reason for the Heinicke 'hate' was because a specific poster (you can probably find him in this thread) decided to troll this board by obsessing over the guy and making us all sick of talking about him. I don't think any of us actually hated Heinicke.

I think he's still in the league somewhere, and if so good for him. That's all I have left to say about it. Carry on.

 

[Chris]

I updated the thread title. I only planned to keep it that way for a bit just to give everyone a laugh. But seriously, let's keep the discussion about Heinicke here so we don't hijack the other threads.

3 years later it still rear’s it head. 🤣

 

[Petey hodge]

I hope that we haven't upset the Football Gods enough with this move to impact tonight's game......

 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 years later it still rear’s it head. 🤣

And it looks like his agent still has an account and wants to argue 3 years ago again. It’s like Beeetlejiuce. Someone said his name too many times and he popped back in.

Let’s just hope someone doesn’t bring up S&C three times and we see our other bugaboo reappear.

 

[AngryChuckT]

I looked back and didn't even know about B&G the last time someone commented on this thread prior to today's resurrection. Accordingly I feel the need to contribute.

I loved TH. I still have a "Legend of TH" with the pylon dive shirt. Great football story. He gave me and my son some fun football to watch back when it had been quite awhile - since I truly had fun watching the Skins. He won games strictly on moxie and the team's response to it.

Unfortunately, the physical attributes just couldn't match his guts. He is not QB1 in this league. He is a QB 2 for handful of games - no more than that. I would take him in a heartbeat as QB3 any day of the week and/or on staff. That guy will always have a paragraph or two in the book of this franchise's history. I have forgotten so many of the QBs this team has started over they years. TH ensured I will never forget him.

 

[ArtMonkWasMyHero]

I always thought TH was the second coming of Tony Banks.

Both relieved QBs who were much more touted, but had less than stellar exits. Both were likable fellas and worked/tried very hard. And both had a modicum of success- just enough to think, ya know just maybe ...

Ultimately, both were destined to be backups. But that's better than most. They both shone a little sunshine on otherwise grim eras. We love our underdogs.

ESPN should do a 30 for 30 on all our starting QBs from 1993 to 2023. RGIII could narrate it.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I always thought TH was the second coming of Tony Banks.

Both relieved QBs who were much more touted, but had less than stellar exits. Both were likable fellas and worked/tried very hard. And both had a modicum of success- just enough to think, ya know just maybe ...

Ultimately, both were destined to be backups. But that's better than most. They both shone a little sunshine on otherwise grim eras. We love our underdogs.

ESPN should do a 30 for 30 on all our starting QBs from 1993 to 2023. RGIII could narrate it.

Suggest that to RG3 and he will be on the phone in a heartbeat. Great idea and I will take a wild guess that he would be on board...

 

[Hail Raiser]

I don't like him as a person and he's a worse QB.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I always thought TH was the second coming of Tony Banks.

Both relieved QBs who were much more touted, but had less than stellar exits. Both were likable fellas and worked/tried very hard. And both had a modicum of success- just enough to think, ya know just maybe ...

Ultimately, both were destined to be backups. But that's better than most. They both shone a little sunshine on otherwise grim eras. We love our underdogs.

ESPN should do a 30 for 30 on all our starting QBs from 1993 to 2023. RGIII could narrate it.

Tony Banks could throw the ball. and had a good arm, and good mobility.

Heinicke had a terrible arm.

That's a huge difference.

 

[Darc Requiem]

I see Cobra Kai isn't the only thing that never dies. I had to do a double take at the thread title.

 

[ArtMonkWasMyHero]

Tony Banks could throw the ball. and had a good arm, and good mobility.

Heinicke had a terrible arm.

That's a huge difference.

Maybe, but the both ended up in the same place.