Taylor Heinicke Discussion

I agree with Boone that Heinicke has limitations and in no way is he the future starter BUT his OC does him no favors whatsoever.

Doug Williams and Mark Rypien were limited but Joe Gibbs didn't ask them to do anything out of their comfort zone.He changed his offense to fit them.

I apologize fellas for beating a dead horse here but it's plainly obvious that Scott is just as limited mentally as Heinicke is physically.
 
I really think we have too much talent to be so offensively limited.
RB Gibson can be powerful and has enough speed to scare defenses as a receiver out of the backfield. Robinson can be a wrecking ball. McKissic is a good receiving back.
WR Terry is great. Samuel is dynamic. Others aren't bad.
TE Probably our weakest group, but if healthy we have some good receivers who have been dynamic in games. Rogers has flashed a couple of times.
QB Heinicke has above average escapability, but sloppy mechanics combined with a so-so arm gets him in trouble. He does seem pretty charmed. He gets away with a lot of throws that seem to work out that look destined for disaster.
 
Are there any other out of work former Panther’s that can come in and play on the offensive line?
 
I just can't write the guy off as not being a starting QB. I can think of at least one QB who was a turn over machine his first few seasons. And, while he had better measurables, my point is he seemed to not have what it takes except for his name. He was a disaster, made lots of bad decisions. His teams had solid running, and a good D. Last I checked, Eli Manning has a couple of SB rings with that formula. No, Heinicke isn't Manning, but Manning was no world beater at first. We saw we can win with that formula because the coaches played to our strengths Monday night. If we could finally get the O line stabilized, we can win with Heinicke IMHO.
 
Chris said:
My left brain has serious questions about TH4.

My right brain doesn’t.
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What was nice about Monday night was seeing Heinicke show off some football smarts. We've seen QBs be effective in the NFL without ideal traits, but they have to make up for that somehow. Timing, release speed, football intelligence. Right now, Heinicke's best quality is that he's lucky. He takes risks that don't backfire as often as you fear they should. That combined with his escapability makes him an NFL starter. Not a pro bowler, not elite, not even top half, but a legit NFL bottom tier starter. For some reason, my mind goes to Chad Pennington, but I'm not sure if that's the right fit.

What made Monday different was the kneel down that won the game. I don't know that I've seen that, but it was a great play. The scoop and throwaway was a great play, but we have seen it before even if most of the time the QB dives on the ball and takes the twenty yard loss. The third overlooked play (and I know I'm repeating myself) was on Heinicke's first victory formation kneel, he waited for the defense to actually come. He didn't take the snap and kneel. Small, but it was the difference between the Eagles getting the ball back with five seconds and ten seconds. Ten seconds could have been two plays. That might have been enough to get them into Hail Mary territory.
 
Jeff Garcia would be my comparison. I don’t think he’s a viable long-term starter. His arm and his lack of size are just too much for him to consistently overcome. I’d love to be wrong though.
 
I have to agree with the smarts for sure. On the kneel down, he baited the defenders to hit him. He made the tiniest move as if he was getting up. Some could say he risked being injured, but that's not his game.
 
Didn't Jeff Garcia throw for 4,500 yards a couple of years and make the pro bowl? :LOL:
 
No - he threw over 4000 once. And only over 3000 another two times. Completion rates right there with Heinicke’s. I'm not necessarily arguing TH is 'as good', just that he reminds me of Garcia. I think Garcia had a better arm (although he wasn't any more accurate over his career than TH has been). And Garcia had years and years to improve. I'm not sure TH gets that opportunity, at least not in DC.
 
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This is a good watch ... strictly focuses on TH4's game, good, bad, and everything else.

Oh, and I'm still pissed at the "pick" call that negated a HUGE 3rd down conversion with 4 minutes to go. Philly fans have been crying all week about the officiating, but they benefitted from more than one highly questionable call as well.

 
So i want to type this as I'm watching because it jumped off the tape to me

That first pass was such a blatant PI, it's not even funny. The ball hit Samuels hand as its simultaniously hitting the defender in the back... he's not looking back, he's face guarding as well as making contact.

What stands out to me MORE, is THIS is a top tier NFL ball placement. Troy Aikman says he wants the ball 'further out' but there's a safety over the top. To top QBs in the league underthrow this ball in order to create a PI call. Now I am giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt, but we see this ALL the time with guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes. If nobody is open, they place a ball where it will draw a penalty. It's anyone's guess if Taylor did it on purpose... but if he did... MASSIVE heady play.

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SilentThreat said:
So i want to type this as I'm watching because it jumped off the tape to me

That first pass was such a blatant PI, it's not even funny. The ball hit Samuels hand as its simultaniously hitting the defender in the back... he's not looking back, he's face guarding as well as making contact.

What stands out to me MORE, is THIS is a top tier NFL ball placement. Troy Aikman says he wants the ball 'further out' but there's a safety over the top. To top QBs in the league underthrow this ball in order to create a PI call. Now I am giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt, but we see this ALL the time with guys like Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes. If nobody is open, they place a ball where it will draw a penalty. It's anyone's guess if Taylor did it on purpose... but if he did... MASSIVE heady play.

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C’mon Derek. Only Philly was negatively affected by the officiating Monday night. 😉
 
I hear you, ST, but I think Aikman was just saying he'd have liked to see that ball a yard or two further upfield and to the sideline. Which is where I am on it. The safety wasn't going to get there in time to defend a slightly longer, better-directed ball.

Not saying definitively that TH4 wasn't playing 3-dimensional chess there and assuming the ref would call it, but if he was, he clearly hasn't been paying attention to how zebras have treated the RedWFTders this century.
 
That's fair, and yeah a yard outside and up and it may have been a catch (or at least not hit the DB in the back)
 
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I think the 'Wentz is pressured less often' is incompatible with the 'time to throw' stats. You can't separate 'pressure' and 'time to throw' imho although some want to believe they are unrelated :ROFLMAO:
 
So…if the team were to continue with a run focused, heavy play action scheme but with Wentz at QB…would there be a decidedly better offensive performance result from the early season games?
 
Chris said:
So…if the team were to continue with a run focused, heavy play action scheme but with Wentz at QB…would there be a decidedly better offensive performance result from the early season games?
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And with an improved OL and defense really hitting it's stride. It's a valid question.
 
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