Skins Trade for Panthers QB Kyle Allen

Fight on... Fight on...

Ax

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Funny thing about maturing. Some do it faster than others. But as long as you're making a steady progression, you eventually get there.

And I'll tell you another thing. I'm 60+ yrs old. And I can flash me some immaturity with the best of them.

You snot head poo poo butt!
 

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By all accounts Haskins has done nothing BUT live at the Park until recently and aggressively prepare for the 2020 season. Basing an assessment on a couple Twitter posts instead of what might actually be going on is lame. There are assertions and then there are ASSertions :). You almost sound like you hope you’re right.
What are you even talking about? He has been at the facility working hard on physical tools, John! We all know this...he's made sure we do. What were the reports out from last season about his work ethic? He works hard in the gym but struggles studying the playbook. So what is he working hardest on this year? The gym and physical drills.

There have been no reports, not a single one, that he has taken time to learn as much about Scott Turner's offense by reviewing film as he can, until he's allowed to open the playbook. Not a single one. And correct me if I'm wrong, but he's allowed to open Scott's playbook now that the season has started, no? How about a video of him holding the playbook and telling everyone it's time to "elevate" my game!

The fact he doesn't and emphasizes his footwork and throwing arm via twitter, tells me all I need to know.

Does it mean he won't find success next season? We'll see. I don't feel confident that in the 1st Q of the season he will be able to step up to the LOS every down, scan the defense that is being shown, and not have to call a timeout out because he isn't quite sure what to do. When the playbook was made vanilla for him later in the year, he was able to progress...will Scott be able to run his offense or dumb it down like CFallahan had to do?
 

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Brian, this is what you said that I asked about:

It's not on the redskins to take his game to the next level, it's on him...it's on the Skins to provide the platform for him to elevate his game.

I read "his game" to refer to his overall development as a player--including footwork, reading pro defenses, calling protections, the gamut. That's why I asked what I asked. I have never heard anyone suggest that that development was strictly on the player. If you were talking only about his maturity, then we're talking past each other and we don't disagree. Were you?
Now you're talking about development, equating it to elevating his game. That's why I said the Skins have to give him the platform...the characteristics you mentioned, coaching, support, and such, Mark.

But it's upon him to "elevate" his game in the context I believe CT was mentioning.
 

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What are you even talking about? He has been at the facility working hard on physical tools, John! We all know this...he's made sure we do. What were the reports out from last season about his work ethic? He works hard in the gym but struggles studying the playbook. So what is he working hardest on this year? The gym and physical drills.

There have been no reports, not a single one, that he has taken time to learn as much about Scott Turner's offense by reviewing film as he can, until he's allowed to open the playbook. Not a single one. And correct me if I'm wrong, but he's allowed to open Scott's playbook now that the season has started, no? How about a video of him holding the playbook and telling everyone it's time to "elevate" my game!

The fact he doesn't and emphasizes his footwork and throwing arm via twitter, tells me all I need to know.

Does it mean he won't find success next season? We'll see. I don't feel confident that in the 1st Q of the season he will be able to step up to the LOS every down, scan the defense that is being shown, and not have to call a timeout out because he isn't quite sure what to do. When the playbook was made vanilla for him later in the year, he was able to progress...will Scott be able to run his offense or dumb it down like CFallahan had to do?
I spend more time tracking this team than anyone on this site save, maybe BB. You're the guy who mostly talks about how you aren't even going to watch the games. You're seriously suggesting that he needs to have video evidence of him studying the playbook or it isn't happening? Really? Do you think Ron Rivera and Scott Turner are morons, incompetent, or both? Do you really believe that if they saw that Haskins wasn't working hard - at every level - to learn and get better, that they would be publicly saying he's the presumptive starter at QB? Get real Brian. You have a drive-by opinion because you don't like his personality. I don't know what was going on last season except that he was in his first NFL year, the head coach had no interest in developing him (on his way out), he got thrown into things with almost zero time with starters, and that he got better every game he played. They 'dumbed down the playbook'? If the offense got 'dumbed down' - I think it's likely that was for the benefit of Callahan who's idea of offense is run it up the gut 3 times and punt. Every coach/coordinator tries to start a rookie out with plays and reads that aren't overwhelming. It's not a mystery why. They're rookies. Are you implying he's not bright? I'd like to hear the evidence to back that up. He seems pretty bright and articulate to me.

Maybe you should just get off his ass and give him a chance :)
 

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El...you're assuming Turner's offense will be difficult to master and therefore require more study time. Perhaps. Then again, maybe it's been around so long the concepts are well known and easier to master. Who knows....maybe Haskins is watching Norval tapes in the Skins vaults.
 

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Double Post
 
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Elephant

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I spend more time tracking this team than anyone on this site save, maybe BB. You're the guy who mostly talks about how you aren't even going to watch the games. You're seriously suggesting that he needs to have video evidence of him studying the playbook or it isn't happening? Really?
John, I spend more time than I should, I follow many of the same people you and BB do, BB has much more personal relationships with many of them because he's a nice guy...so has inside tracks to the info, but don't think I am basing my assumptions in some sort of vacuum. Yes, I stopped watching in protest because I wanted Gruden and Allen gone. Wasn't going to watch a game where Snyder would earn a dime off my viewership. But I have gone back and watched as much film as I could to see Haskins on the field. Sure he got better, I would hope that anyone considered to start in the NFL can go from an absolutely horrible QB, which he was against the Giants, to an average at best QB in the league by the end of the season.

But if you think think that the need for video proof is what I am asking, then you're not following the argument very well or are creating a straw man.

My point is his ego, John. He has no problem posting videos of himself excelling at was he does best, the physical traits. How about posting equally...or here's a novel approach, how about not posting stuff like that at all. What is he trying to sell us? Smells like snake oil to me! Just prove it on the playing field, not some bubble with a few cones so your fans can stroke you ego. That is small minded.

Do you think Ron Rivera and Scott Turner are morons, incompetent, or both? Do you really believe that if they saw that Haskins wasn't working hard - at every level - to learn and get better, that they would be publicly saying he's the presumptive starter at QB? Get real Brian. You have a drive-by opinion because you don't like his personality.
I think they're in a position that is very uncomfortable and realize they have an unknown quantity on their hands, but are playing the hand they were dealt.

And I don't think they have the balls to pull a move like Kliff Kingsbury pulled last year. Cut bait...one of the most difficult decisions any coach will ever make, one that could shape his success or lack thereof. If we were the 1st pick in the draft, tell me honestly you doubt they take Joe Burrow.



I don't know what was going on last season except that he was in his first NFL year, the head coach had no interest in developing him (on his way out), he got thrown into things with almost zero time with starters, and that he got better every game he played. They 'dumbed down the playbook'?
Sure you know John...for someone spending so much time following this team, you heard the same stuff I did, but hate to admit I am probably correct. The kid did not take learning the playbook seriously, so when thrown to the wolves...he threw 3 interceptions! He looked lost, and could not compete.

So here we are in year 2 of his career and there is nothing being reported about how much time he is spending in film rooms watching film of the new OC, or now the he is able...to study the new playbook. This is stuff that gets reported about other QB's. It was often reported that Cousins would be in the film room while RG3 was in the gym. It's not uncommon for the media to hone in on something so menial to you.

John, what a huge story it would be if the media heard about him studying, especially since that was a big rub against him. I mean...come one man, it a logical progression and you minimize it because I am saying it.


If the offense got 'dumbed down' - I think it's likely that was for the benefit of Callahan who's idea of offense is run it up the gut 3 times and punt. Every coach/coordinator tries to start a rookie out with plays and reads that aren't overwhelming. It's not a mystery why. They're rookies. Are you implying he's not bright? I'd like to hear the evidence to back that up. He seems pretty bright and articulate to me.
If? You're really suggesting that the offense was not dumbed down for Haskins, but they did it for Callahan when O'Connell was the one calling plays? Well, I really don't know how you got that idea, but OK.
 
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I wouldn't watch games because it was my way of ensuring I was not lining Snyder's pocket, but youtube videos do not line his pockets, and I have been able to go back and look at film on Haskins. I know much more than you give me credit for, so save the I know more than you do crap.
Your whole shtick is 'I know more than you'. Your 'think' is not 'know'. You just believe it is. Always. It's tiresome because there is literally no point conversing with you. So I won't. Nothing personal, but it's a waste of time.
 

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Your whole shtick is 'I know more than you'. Your 'think' is not 'know'. You just believe it is. Always. It's tiresome because there is literally no point conversing with you. So I won't. Nothing personal, but it's a waste of time.
:bsflag:

There are some things I believe whole heartedly to be true, my take on Haskins is one of them. I remember when it was me who thought that my physical talent would take me further than it could, but my ego clouded my judgement so much I never became what I should have been. Am I projecting my past onto his future? Sure...but, I've seen it so often over the years, it's not uncommon for one to be so sold on their physical ability they refuse to put in the work that truly takes you to the next level.

Bottom line, there are question marks around Dwayne Haskins, he has done little in this offseason to alleviate those concern. So I'm going to express that. And when you don't agree, don't threaten to run away from an argument. You dig your heels in just as much as I do. It's Ok to disagree with me, but don't think I'm not going to argue my point.
 
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Om

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Personally, the last thing I want to see now from Haskins, or any other player, is posting on social media about how hard he's studying his playbook or watching film. I'd be thinking that was really immature and wondering what he's trying to sell us.
 

Ax

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Ax

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Still need to find a way to boo him, for all to hear, during the draft.

I mean, it's tradition!
 

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:bsflag:

There are some things I believe whole heartedly to be true, my take on Haskins is one of them. I remember when it was me who thought that my physical talent would take me further than it could, but my ego clouded my judgement so much I never became what I should have been. Am I projecting my past onto his future? Sure...but, I've seen it so often over the years, it's not uncommon for one to be so sold on their physical ability they refuse to put in the work that truly takes you to the next level.

Bottom line, there are question marks around Dwayne Haskins, he has done little in this offseason to alleviate those concern. So I'm going to express that. And when you don't agree, don't threaten to run away from an argument. You dig your heels in just as much as I do. It's Ok to disagree with me, but don't think I'm not going to argue my point.
Thise are fair points Brian. Sometimes we all need to take a break from ‘energetic’ conversations. It’s all good brother.

It’s interesting to me that you mentioned your own experience with ‘ego’ and possibly projecting into Haskins there. But you seem to discount that a young guy can show signs of immaturity and selfishness but as he gets more experience and age under his belt, grow up. That’s what happens for most of us, right, but you seem overly skeptical our young QB can experience that. This is where we most differ.
 

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Personally, the last thing I want to see now from Haskins, or any other player, is posting on social media about how hard he's studying his playbook or watching film. I'd be thinking that was really immature and wondering what he's trying to sell us.
Looks like I may not have communicated myself properly again when I said...

...or here's a novel approach, how about not posting stuff like that at all.
 

Elephant

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Still need to find a way to boo him, for all to hear, during the draft.

I mean, it's tradition!
If you figure it out, I have family in Las Vegas who may be able to help.
 
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Chris

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Young people post on social media, it’s life as they know it. It often shows a heightened lack of maturity and forethought because, well, most of them lack maturity and forethought. Comes with the territory.

I’m certainly glad that I wasn’t in a social media age when I was that age.
 

Boone

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Young people post on social media, it’s life as they know it. It often shows a heightened lack of maturity and forethought because, well, most of them lack maturity and forethought. Comes with the territory.

I’m certainly glad that I wasn’t in a social media age when I was that age.
This is exactly my though process. I doubt there's one iota of difference in the 'maturity level' of young males when compared to our generation. We just thankfully didn't have any vehicles available to share just how young, self-focused, and stupid we were with the entire planet.
 

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So here we are in year 2 of his career and there is nothing being reported about how much time he is spending in film rooms watching film of the new OC, or now the he is able...to study the new playbook. This is stuff that gets reported about other QB's. It was often reported that Cousins would be in the film room while RG3 was in the gym. It's not uncommon for the media to hone in on something so menial to you.

John, what a huge story it would be if the media heard about him studying, especially since that was a big rub against him. I mean...come one man, it a logical progression and you minimize it because I am saying it.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion on Haskins. You’ve really dug your heals in and are holding firm, so good on you. Time will tell if you are right or wrong. But, a simple check of one of the most popular Redskins reporters show the exact story you say doesn’t exist and is proof Haskins doesn’t open his playbook.


Here is the part that specifically addresses Haskins learning the system. Not that I expect this to change your opinion, but I guess there is hope you won’t post your opinion as fact when the facts contradict your opinion.

“Haskins must piece together offensive coordinator Scott Turner's system by watching film and studying the routes favored in Carolina the past two seasons. He's been doing all of that, then throwing passes on all those routes in individual workouts this spring. Haskins has talked to others he knows around the league about the offense, and he works with people who know the system. But having another quarterback on the roster who knows the playbook, someone he can communicate with, can only help.”
 

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