Skins Trade for Panthers QB Kyle Allen

Fight on... Fight on...

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,099
Reaction score
26
Points
328


Come on brother, you trying to say you're not old enough to remember "The Ramskins" . Hmmmm!

This is a sound football move.
AX.....nice to start a post this way. :) I'm not fixated on this one trade. I'm more focused on the patterns and overall talent level (relative to other teams).
 

Ax

The Ugly American
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,832
Reaction score
81
Points
328

On paper. Cause that's all we have to go by right now.
How we each view it, on paper.

Until we see the onfield results, it's all speculation.

Optimism about our moves, is a choice.
As is pessimism.

Choose optimism.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,317
Reaction score
466
Points
1,864
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

As John Keim has said repeatedly, the Redskins have won Free Agency numerous times in the past.

It didn’t result in winning seasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ax

Jimbo

The Franchise Player
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
4,266
Reaction score
3
Points
68
Location
Columbia, SC


As John Keim has said repeatedly, the Redskins have won Free Agency numerous times in the past.

It didn’t result in winning seasons.
Winning Free Agency and having a Winning Season is like deciding between Lobster and Cracked Crab. Can't we have both? :unsure:
 

Enforcer

The UDFA
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
404
Reaction score
18
Points
18
Location
Centreville, VA

George Mason

It's a "damn good" culture! LOL, oh Bruce.

Ron isn't playing games when it comes to changing the culture. Aside from everything mentioned - this is a good move towards that end. It's good to have some PLAYERS (besides coaches) like this dude and the LB, Davis, that are "ringers" and who are already all in.
 

Ax

The Ugly American
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,832
Reaction score
81
Points
328

More important than that, they help accelerate the learning curve for the entire team. They are the reverse of social distancing. We WANT them to spread culture expectations, and knowledge of the new system, to as many teammates as possible.

It's a Win Win!

No, not OUR Win. But a win....win.
 

Henry

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,776
Reaction score
37
Points
204
Location
Fairfax, VA


I think you're wrong :) But even if you aren't - we couldn't afford any of them Henry. Look at the money we have tied up in the position. Allen costs us $675,000 each of the next 2 years (or in that ballpark. EDIT: Experienced backups are going to run you 5 - 10x that much. That's the reality.
I think there are positives and negatives with having two quarterbacks under rookie contracts. We've done this before, haven't we? Shuler and Frerotte, Bob and Cousins ... how do these things generally work out? What was it you said earlier? You want to avoid a "drama storm of epic proportions"? Not sure having two QBs at the same stage of their careers is the best way to do that.

But you know what? That's fine. But I do wish we hadn't traded a pick for the privilege.

I'd be curious to read what Panther fans think of this trade. I know if the Redskins signed a rookie FA quarterback, saw him get benched for some guy named Will Grier, and then actually managed to trade him for a pick I'd be thrilled.

Anyway, I'm done. Like I said this isn't a huge deal so I won't belabor it. I'd just rather wait until we have an established team before trading picks away for backups. That's it.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,317
Reaction score
466
Points
1,864
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

I think any real competition has the potential to create a QB controversy. In DC that means drama since, although competition at the QB position is normal and expected if you don’t already have a franchise QB, we for some reason view it as a negative or evidence of dysfunction.

I don’t believe we should approach it as ‘our 2nd year QB is so fragile, we don’t want to bring in anyone who might be able to pressure him for the starter role’

The Panthers loved Kyle Allen. He showed a ton of potential in his starts. They ‘benched’ him because he was getting killed... 46 sacks in 12 games. That’s got to be the most in NFL history. Grier looked awful by comparison. Guessing had the Panthers not traded Allen, he’d have ended up Brisgewater’s backup and it would’ve been Will Grier released.
 

fansince62

The All-Time Great
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
16,099
Reaction score
26
Points
328


Let's not get carried away. I agree the culture needs to change - but my belief is that that has always come from the very top - established by actions that took place over 20+ years. Leadership 101.

When I watch SB replays no one ever states "yo, Sparky, they are here and won because of the culture." The language usually employed is something along the lines of the "The Patriot way" into which culture plays. I believe it's something much larger though equally ambiguous - identity; who/what the Redskins are as a football franchise; the thread of permanace or at least persistence

I think most folks see football culture in limited respects: accountability for actions off the field; giving 100% on the field; setting up a personal filter between the mouth/fingers and the mike/keyboard.

That's not the same as identity. That's one of my qualms with the Riverboat Pilot. Is he here to restore culture? Or is he here to reset and reestablish the Redskins identity/traditions set so many years ago by Joe Jackson Gibbs? If he's here to change that as well, and there have been some limited signals that may be the case, then my instincts are not off track.
 

Ax

The Ugly American
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
14,832
Reaction score
81
Points
328

Well, you have to give the man more than 5 minutes to turn things around.

Hip shooting at everything he does before seeing if it actually pays off seems like...….premature evalution?
 
  • Fist Bump
Reactions: Om

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,455
Reaction score
153
Points
1,093

Florida State

Optimism about our moves, is a choice.
As is pessimism.

Choose optimism.
I wasn't a huge fan of the Rivera hire in the beginning, but I realized it played out as I wanted it to in the end...Allen and Gruden out the door!

If you guys remember, I was clamoring for Snyder to hire Gibbs in a advisory role only, temporarily as they find a new GM and Head Coach.

While it didn't happen exactly that way, Gibbs was consulted, and they hired a Head Coach upon his suggestion. I'd like to have seen a GM in place prior, but it seems to have worked out well enough to this point. Joe Gibbs has to be one of the greatest evaluators of talent out there, so I trust he sees something in Rivera that I didn't.

To your point, at this juncture we have a choice...is it going to get better in our opinion or worse?

I'm in your camp right now, Ax! I think we can get 7 wins with just new coaching, especially on defense with Jack Del Rio. I think the over under on win totals is probably 6.5.

And I am not in the least concerned about the Free Agent acquisitions, or lack thereof. We're not going to be competing for the NFC Championship in the first year. This is a process and Rivera gets at least 3 years from me before I go all black like I did against Gruden and Allen.

One more off-season to put more people.


Hail to the Redskins!
 
Last edited:

Henry

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,776
Reaction score
37
Points
204
Location
Fairfax, VA


I think any real competition has the potential to create a QB controversy. In DC that means drama since, although competition at the QB position is normal and expected if you don’t already have a franchise QB, we for some reason view it as a negative or evidence of dysfunction.

I don’t believe we should approach it as ‘our 2nd year QB is so fragile, we don’t want to bring in anyone who might be able to pressure him for the starter role’
To be fair, you brought up the possibility of QB drama, not me. I simply responded by noting that two young guys on rookie contracts tend to attract plenty of drama. Especially in this town.

My bottom line is I don't like spending the pick. I hope Allen's knowledge of the offense is worth it, because ... looking at the team optimistically ... this kid will never see the field. So that's a 5th rounder for someone who never plays.

The Panthers loved Kyle Allen. He showed a ton of potential in his starts. They ‘benched’ him because he was getting killed... 46 sacks in 12 games. That’s got to be the most in NFL history. Grier looked awful by comparison. Guessing had the Panthers not traded Allen, he’d have ended up Brisgewater’s backup and it would’ve been Will Grier released.
I hope you're right. I didn't watch the kid beyond his game with the Redskins. And he looked terrible. Shrug.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,317
Reaction score
466
Points
1,864
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

Never going to play? That’s possible, assuming he doesn’t beat Haskins out for the starting job. But we haven’t had a QB who has been able to play a full season in years. Unless we just want to fold up the tent and go home if Haskins goes down, the backup QB position is one of the most important and we got one for a 5th round pick and $675,000/year.

What are draft picks for? To add young talent - and that’s just what we did. I have to ask... would you be criticizing them if we’d drafted some QB you know little about with that 5th rounder?
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,317
Reaction score
466
Points
1,864
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

And Henry, not trying to start a fight - I hear you and I generally don’t like giving up draft picks. But in this case, they must feel we need a backup based on what they are seeing with Smith and Allen is young, cheap, and has shown promise. Seems like a no-brainer...
 

Henry

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,776
Reaction score
37
Points
204
Location
Fairfax, VA


Never going to play? That’s possible, assuming he doesn’t beat Haskins out for the starting job. But we haven’t had a QB who has been able to play a full season in years. Unless we just want to fold up the tent and go home if Haskins goes down, the backup QB position is one of the most important and we got one for a 5th round pick and $675,000/year.

What are draft picks for? To add young talent - and that’s just what we did. I have to ask... would you be criticizing them if we’d drafted some QB you know little about with that 5th rounder?
Dunno, honestly. Late round QBs are usually projects you bring in to be the backup or third-stringer once you have an established QB. I don't think I'd be upset but I might consider it a head-scratcher. We are not established in any sense of the imagination. It would just see like odd timing to me.

I'm personally not huge fan of bringing in a young QB while developing a young QB. The Redskins over the past 20 years have exhibited a particularly dangerous short attention span when it comes to this sort of thing. We had this same discussion in 2012, didn't we?
 

Henry

Coaching Staff
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,776
Reaction score
37
Points
204
Location
Fairfax, VA


And Henry, not trying to start a fight - I hear you and I generally don’t like giving up draft picks. But in this case, they must feel we need a backup based on what they are seeing with Smith and Allen is young, cheap, and has shown promise. Seems like a no-brainer...
I see the upside. I'm not sure I'd call it a no-brainer, though.

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong.
 

Boone

GM
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
39,317
Reaction score
466
Points
1,864
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

That’s a fair point - although in 2012 RG3 was anointed and it took a lot of bad performances before the team moved on from him. In this scenario, Haskins isn’t being promised anything and I think that is a healthier approach. We also dont have 3 firsts invested in Haskins and the ‘GM’ who drafted him is gone. Rivera has no reason to be wed to any QB.

I get your point but I think Haskins is the presumed starter and the only way this becomes a problem is if Haskins soils the linens and doesn’t play well. If he does, guess I’d rather have a promising youngster to hand it off to than some washed up mediocre vet or journeyman.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Chat 0
    Top