Skins Quotes 12/5: Jay Gruden

[Elephant]

You guys are both condescending

Cannibalism?

 

[fansince62]

You're condescending tone doesn't change the assertion you made and I countered. The Green Bay Packers defense made immediate strides at the beginning of this season, but yeah! That whole 5 games isn't enough time, huh?

And the reason he had all of 4 starts to prove himself is because he was injured…again! That supports my assertion from 3 years ago, doesn't it?

no..it doesn't. pls dedicate some honesty to the entire argument. we have gone through this before. I have presented multiple reasons why I think Griffin's demise entails more than "he was preordained to fail." You presented a counter to one thought which was that the change in offensive scheme played a role - an idea, btw, that is not unique to me. you presented a counter-example...for a team. not an individual. and you did not present a viable counter specific to Griffin. I acknowledged the validity of your point without conceding that it applied specifically to Griffin. I proceeded to note that one catch in your argument was that the change in scheme for the Packers succeeded precisely because that franchise enjoys a more stable environment. we could add in better leadership as well.

If you want to rack a point up on this issue. that's cool. it's not critical to my view on how we got to where we are today anyway.

 

[Elephant]

no..it doesn't. pls dedicate some honesty to the entire argument. we have gone through this before. I have presented multiple reasons why I think Griffin's demise entails more than "he was preordained to fail." You presented a counter to one thought which was that the change in offensive scheme played a role - an idea, btw, that is not unique to me. you presented a counter-example...for a team. not an individual. and you did not present a viable counter specific to Griffin. I acknowledged the validity of your point without conceding that it applied specifically to Griffin. I proceeded to note that one catch in your argument was that the change in scheme for the Packers succeeded precisely because that franchise enjoys a more stable environment. we could add in better leadership as well.

If you want to rack a point up on this issue. that's cool. it's not critical to my view on how we got to where we are today anyway.

OK then, let me narrow it down for you. Clay Matthews is now playing ILB. Talk about a shift in scheme…he is having a pro bowl season after his worst season as a pro last year. That is what good/great players do.

You're excuses for Griffin are old, tired. They don't pass the smell test. The kid had an entire offseason to buy into the new scheme and he regressed. Was it because of the injury? Was it because he didn't have enough time? Was it because the new scheme? Was it because of the organization? Was it because of the savage media in DC? Who cares?

He is on the sideline looking in this season mostly because he got injured. I don't think there is any doubting that. How do you explain the rest? More tired excuses?

 

[SkinsFTW]

The Iggles system and offensive philosophy is a better match with Griffin's talents than Gruden's big ugly, drop back scheme.

This is why Allen is and never was GM material. 10 months ago Redskins fans were wondering wtf was Gruden going to try to turn RG3 into Dalton? Or was he going to change his offense or something? Now we know. He was just going to expect Griffen to be a much more talented version of Andy Dalton while somebody in Allen's position, and was here the past 4 years, should've known in detail the problems Shanahan had trying to convert RG3 and Gruden has even said recently that he had no idea that RG3 was "very raw". That is all Allen. Maybe Allen could've hired a more appropriate coach if he knew wtf he was doing. Hell he probably didn't even know what questions to ask Gruden and just assumed he could "fix" RG3.

 

[DieselPwr44]

This is why Allen is and never was GM material. 10 months ago Redskins fans were wondering wtf was Gruden going to try to turn RG3 into Dalton? Or was he going to change his offense or something? Now we know. He was just going to expect Griffen to be a much more talented version of Andy Dalton while somebody in Allen's position, and was here the past 4 years, should've known in detail the problems Shanahan had trying to convert RG3 and Gruden has even said recently that he had no idea that RG3 was "very raw". That is all Allen. Maybe Allen could've hired a more appropriate coach if he knew wtf he was doing. Hell he probably didn't even know what questions to ask Gruden and just assumed he could "fix" RG3.

RG2 and RG3 were telling everybody that they didn't want to run around anymore,that they wanted to be a pocket passer.

Snyder and Allen bent to their QBs request,which is just bad all the way around.

Inmates running the asylum.....

 

[Boone]

I think where almost every one of us goes off course in our assessment is believing Griffin's downward spiral was the result of 'one thing'. It's human nature to want to seize on an 'explanation' for an unexpected or negative event. Everyone stakes out a position and then assaults the opposing viewpoint.

The truth is, Griffin's devolution is probably the result of a number of factors, experiencing a 2nd traumatic knee repair and the ankle injury, having to deal with 2 very aggressive head coaches, learning a new offensive system, fear of another injury, suppressing his natural instincts to run vs. staying in the pocket, erosion of his confidence, the pressure of trying to retain his job over talented backups, media-fueled drama, jealousy of teammates, I think there are probably a hundred factors involved. It doesn't have to be 'one thing'.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Art Briles.

 

[Cycleans]

Game, Set, Match.

OK then, let me narrow it down for you. Clay Matthews is now playing ILB. Talk about a shift in scheme…he is having a pro bowl season after his worst season as a pro last year. That is what good/great players do.

You're excuses for Griffin are old, tired. They don't pass the smell test. The kid had an entire offseason to buy into the new scheme and he regressed. Was it because of the injury? Was it because he didn't have enough time? Was it because the new scheme? Was it because of the organization? Was it because of the savage media in DC? Who cares?

He is on the sideline looking in this season mostly because he got injured. I don't think there is any doubting that. How do you explain the rest? More tired excuses?

 

[Cycleans]

I think the media latches onto these kind of stories and creates stories out of thin air...I get that some of the stories are based in truth. I think Griffin showed how great he could be in a system until he lost a step, be it injury or age. Shanahan tailored his game plan. It worked until he got hurt and Griffin hasn't been capable of learning to play in the pocket. That in turn has added stress to the pass blocking.
Nothing more nothing less. Regardless I'm disappointed in our fan base for throwing in the towel on Gruden before Thanksgiving...that's the exact same reason why they blame Snyder for our early and sustained failings of the team. Am I right? Snyder doesn't have the patience or the ability to let his football people do their job. I'll admit Gruden hasn't produced much with the draft picks he drafted on the offense. That is my largest concern...but since he's still in his first year he 's looking to find out who his guys are. The last games on the schedule should give us some clarity. I'm guessing we have a good showing...and in the offseason he will know who needs to stay and who needs to go.

 

[Boone]

I don't think most fans have thrown in the towel on Gruden Cycleans. I think most fans have found Gruden's more open and blunt approach refreshing. But I also think most fans question how publically gutting and humiliating your starting QB, and let's be honest - ONLY your starting QB - was helpful. It was unprofessional, and only served to derail the rest of the season. Gruden had complete authority to bench Griffin at any time for any reason. The rest of the public nonsense was totally unnecessary, and rightfully has turned a lot of us off. I also think that Gruden talks a lot about player performance, but only pays lip service to his own. I would prefer he just stfu about what the 'reasons' for all of the poor play are, and keep all of that in house where it belongs.

I think everyone understands that he inherited a roster for the most part and that change takes time. That doesn't mean his performance on nearly every front hasn't been wanting/lacking. It has.

 

[Cycleans]

I don't have a problem with accountability...His words came out with clear meaning. Griffin was and is playing horrible. I know it shocked me and I'm sure it shocked Gruden. Griffin can't seem to play within the boundaries of a conventional playbook. I would be far more disappointed if Gruden didn't give Griffin a decent shot to win his spot back. It would have been easy to stick with Colt after the Dallas Game.

I don't think most fans have thrown in the towel on Gruden Cycleans. I think most fans have found Gruden's more open and blunt approach refreshing. But I also think most fans question how publically gutting and humiliating your starting QB, and let's be honest - ONLY your starting QB - was helpful. It was unprofessional, and only served to derail the rest of the season. Gruden had complete authority to bench Griffin at any time for any reason. The rest of the public nonsense was totally unnecessary, and rightfully has turned a lot of us off. I also think that Gruden talks a lot about player performance, but only pays lip service to his own. I would prefer he just stfu about what the 'reasons' for all of the poor play are, and keep all of that in house where it belongs.

I think everyone understands that he inherited a roster for the most part and that change takes time. That doesn't mean his performance on nearly every front hasn't been wanting/lacking. It has.

 

[Chris]

I don't think most fans have thrown in the towel on Gruden Cycleans. I think most fans have found Gruden's more open and blunt approach refreshing. But I also think most fans question how publically gutting and humiliating your starting QB, and let's be honest - ONLY your starting QB - was helpful. It was unprofessional, and only served to derail the rest of the season. Gruden had complete authority to bench Griffin at any time for any reason. The rest of the public nonsense was totally unnecessary, and rightfully has turned a lot of us off. I also think that Gruden talks a lot about player performance, but only pays lip service to his own. I would prefer he just stfu about what the 'reasons' for all of the poor play are, and keep all of that in house where it belongs.

I think everyone understands that he inherited a roster for the most part and that change takes time. That doesn't mean his performance on nearly every front hasn't been wanting/lacking. It has.

Sometimes I wish that there was a SuperLike button.

 

[Boone]

I don't have a problem with accountability...His words came out with clear meaning. Griffin was and is playing horrible. I know it shocked me and I'm sure it shocked Gruden. Griffin can't seem to play within the boundaries of a conventional playbook. I would be far more disappointed if Gruden didn't give Griffin a decent shot to win his spot back. It would have been easy to stick with Colt after the Dallas Game.

Accountability and publically humiliating your quarterback aren't mutually exclusive. Gruden was pissed at his QB, and wanted to make sure everyone knew who was to blame for his record this season. That's a lack of self-control and it was unprofessional. It doesn't matter if it was true or not - it should've been handled behind closed doors. Period.

The result of his 'accountability' has been a media drama-fest and having players now gutting each other. That's just great!

 

[Boone]

If only a hint of this is true, then it's easy to see what's playing out:

Dispute over Redskins? Robert Griffin III could lead to showdown between Jay Gruden, Bruce Allen - The Washington Post

If Allen expected Gruden to coach-up Griffin, then Gruden screwed the pooch.

At some point, someone is going to give us the truth.

Well, if the article is anywhere close to the truth, that there is a battle brewing between Gruden and Snyder/Allen, and either Griffin or Gruden wins out - I would hope to God it's Gruden. You can't hire a head coach, then tell him who he can and can't start, and expect to have success. You just can't. We need to support Gruden 100%, whether he's right or wrong about Griffin. If he says Griffin is fatally flawed and, more than that, is undermining this team's success somehow, Griffin has to go.

If our ownership proves to be taking sides with players over their head coach - we are literally doomed.

 

[Cycleans]

I didn't think he humiliated Griffin. It was unfortunate but how do you explain away Griffin's regression? Blame it on health, a migraine...? He has played Geno Smith bad. I've been one of his patient supporters but my eyes can see the truth. I can't say why but how can he play so poorly? Everything being considered this is his 3rd year and he isn't playing as well as his backups. Maybe there was a nice way to say it but how would it translate through the media. I don't believe our perspective is all that different. You would rather more tact be made and I feel the result would be the same...I just like the clarity on why he was unpleased.

Accountability and publically humiliating your quarterback aren't mutually exclusive. Gruden was pissed at his QB, and wanted to make sure everyone knew who was to blame for his record this season. That's a lack of self-control and it was unprofessional. It doesn't matter if it was true or not - it should've been handled behind closed doors. Period.

The result of his 'accountability' has been a media drama-fest and having players now gutting each other. That's just great!

 

[Chris]

If our ownership proves to be taking sides with players over their head coach - we are literally doomed.

Is it even possible to be more doomed than we already are? I mean, geez, we are already Raiders East.

 

[Chris]

Leaders do not excoriate their charges in public. Not at any level in any industry. They do it behind closed doors. The same as any of us would want and expect from our supervisors. It has nothing to do with the person's performance, that is an entirely different matter.

 

[Boone]

The issue isn't whether Griffin deserved to be benched. But he sat up there and cataloged for God and everyone else each and every one of Griffin's faults. He then apologized for it - following that up with doing it again. Totally unnecessary and to be honest - pretty stupid. What is to be gained by that kind of move? Is there some valid reason that couldn't all have been said in private, or even in the locker room if you feel the need to call out your starting QB publically? No other player got that kind of treatment from Gruden. It was ridiculous. And it hurt the team.

 

[Boone]

Is it even possible to be more doomed than we already are? I mean, geez, we are already Raiders East.

I got nuthin'...

 

[stevenaa]

Well, if the article is anywhere close to the truth, that there is a battle brewing between Gruden and Snyder/Allen, and either Griffin or Gruden wins out - I would hope to God it's Gruden. You can't hire a head coach, then tell him who he can and can't start, and expect to have success. You just can't. We need to support Gruden 100%, whether he's right or wrong about Griffin. If he says Griffin is fatally flawed and, more than that, is undermining this team's success somehow, Griffin has to go.

If our ownership proves to be taking sides with players over their head coach - we are literally doomed.

We've begged for a coach that would do it his way and not Snyder's. No coach could have control of this team with Snyder having personal relationships with players. We may finally have a coach with enough balls to back off Snyder. If he can do that, he'll be able to exert control over the team. Throwing RG under the bus publicly may have been a calculated move. It shows the team you have to perform no matter whom you are. More importantly, it removes any wiggle room with Snyder, when Gruden makes it clear his feeling on RG. If he gets rid of RG, he'll have control of the team. No one will doubt his authority. I'm not sure any coach has had that since Marty. Now what he does with that will be interesting. If RG'ing players publicly become his MO, he'll lose the team quickly.