• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

SI.com-Inside the numbers: Week 7

McKissic for the win

SNF

The Starter
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
1,061
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Reston, VA; Sect 141



Robert Griffin III has burst onto the NFL scene with an extraordinary combination of fleet-footed athleticism, flair for drama and elite passing efficiency.

He reminds the Cold, Hard Football Facts of one of those barroom conversations you might have about building the perfect quarterback: pair Michael Vick's legs with Peyton Manning's crunch-time proficiency and Drew Brees' pinpoint accuracy.

Then dub your robo-QB RGIII.

The nickname alone sounds like one of those Star Wars droids that bravely battled the Evil Empire or the New York Giants. The reflective eye shield is a great dramatic touch for this quarterback of the future.

That's the great news for Washington Redskins fans.

The bad news is this: Mike Shanahan's team is about to waste the most brilliant rookie season in history by pairing RGIII with one of the worst pass defenses football has ever seen.

The Redskins (3-4) are on pace to surrender 457 points, which would be the most in franchise history.

They're also on pace to surrender 5,255 net passing yards -- which would be the most allowed by any team ever, surpassing the standard (or lack thereof) set last year by Green Bay (4,796), a flaw that cost the 15-1 Packers a run at the Super Bowl.

Elite Even Among Legends
Griffin and the Redskins are No. 1 in the NFL in Real Quarterback Rating, our measure of all aspects of quarterback play, including passing, running, sacks, total touchdowns and all turnovers.

The No. 1 ranking in this indicator provides statistical validation of RGIII's ability to beat defenses with his arm and his legs.

The No. 1 ranking takes on more gravitas when you look at the list of contemporary legends staring up at him on the Real Quarterback Rating leaderboard.

Top 8 Real QB Rating (through Week 7)
• No. 1 -- Griffin and the Redskins (99.9)
• No. 2 -- Peyton Manning and the Broncos (97.3)
• No. 3 -- Aaron Rodgers and the Packers (97.2)
• No. 4 -- Tom Brady and the Patriots (93.2)
• No. 5 -- Matt Ryan and the Falcons (92.3)
• No. 6 -- Drew Brees and the Saints (91.9)
• No. 7 -- Ben Roethlisberger and the Steelers (91.2)
• No. 8 -- Eli Manning and the Giants (89.4)

This Top 8 list is a who's who of the best quarterbacks in football today. It includes every active Super Bowl winner: These quarterbacks have hoisted 10 of the last 11 Lombardi Trophies, including nine straight since 2003.

These quarterbacks have also won seven of the last 10 NFL MVP awards, including five straight.

Griffin has been more effective than every single one of these contemporary legends in Real Quarterback Rating.

Even if we remove his incredible running skills from the equation, Griffin is easily on pace to set the record for rookie passing efficiency. His 101.8 individual rating puts the Redskins third right now in team-wide Offensive Passer Rating, behind Green Bay's Rodgers (109.6) and Denver's Manning (105.0).

Griffin's most impressive skill, meanwhile, is his deadly accuracy. He displayed this accuracy last season during his Heisman-winning season at Baylor, completing an incredible 72.4 percent of his passes.

He's picked up right where he left. RGIII is accurate not just by the standards of a rookie quarterback, but by the standards of the most precise passers in history.

Top 5 most accurate passing seasons in NFL history (min. 150 attempts):
Drew Brees (2011) -- 468 of 657 (71.23 percent)
Drew Brees (2009) -- 363 of 514 (70.62)
Ken Anderson (1982) -- 218 of 309 (70.55)
Robert Griffin III (2012) -- 133 of 189 (70.37)
Sammy Baugh (1945) -- 128 of 182 (70.33)

Again, RGIII is firmly entrenched among the game's elite. The good news is that, right now, the Redskins have a quarterback good enough to win a Super Bowl, even though he's only a rookie.

Mike Shanahan's Defensive Woes
The bad news is that Shanahan's tribe is wasting Griffin's spectacular rookie season with a historically inept defense. Washington's 27-23 loss to the Giants on Sunday was a perfect microcosm of the team's season so far.

Griffin once again made big plays throughout the contest with both his arm and his legs. And he was at his best with the game on the line.

He needed just 87 seconds late in the fourth quarter to lead the Redskins on a 77-yard touchdown drive. RGIII accounted for every yard himself, running for 24 yards and passing for the rest, while capping the drive with a 30-yard TD pass to Santana Moss for a 23-20 Redskins lead.

The rest at http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...3/robert-griffin-iii/index.html#ixzz2AGZGOJMU
 

Boone

The Commissioner
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
43,012
Reaction score
3,207
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

Can our woes be summed up any more precisely than this? Or our promise?

Hard to see how we don't completely overhaul the defensive coaching staff with these kind of damning stats.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
 

Neophyte

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,681
Reaction score
303
Points
238
Location
Dallas


I found it difficult to believe that Shanahan brought Slowik with him from Denver after the horrible Defense he presided over there but he did. Then, after Slowik proved he couldn't coach DBs, Shanahan made him the LB coach so he could screw that group up as well.

So with that as a backdrop, I can believe anything of Shanahan on the defensive side of the ball.
 

Lanky Livingston

Guest
It won't be hard for Shanny to let Haslett go...he was not Mike's first choice.
Who was Mike's first choice? I don't recall.

A quick Google search produces' Zimmer's name, which is kind of familiar. Is that who you are talking about?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Henry

I drink and I know things
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,900
Reaction score
226
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


Unfortunately this looks all to familiar for a Shanahan-coached team. During the season that got Shanahan fired the Broncos had the #2 offense in the league, the #3 passing offense in the league and second-year quarterback Jay Cutler had his best season as a pro and went to the pro-bowl. Unfortunately the defense was 29th in the league and the Broncos finished 8-8.

Griffin is having an historically good rookie season, and it's largely going to waste. This defense needs a serious overall when the season is over, and then we need to pray that Griffin continues to be inhumanly awesome again.
 

Rymanofthenorth

BGObsessed
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
5,671
Reaction score
91
Points
128
Location
I live in the warmest city in the coldest provinc

UTEP

agreed Henry, the problem is not simply Haslett, if it were I would be more upbeat, the problem is that there is no check or balance for shanny, if shanny wants, shanny gets, and shanny has proven time and again that he is abjectly clueless when it comes to defence. This defence has an almost 100% turnover in players since shanny took over and not only is there no improvement, there is an actual decline, despite arguably better talent than when he took over.

I dont think it will happen because of shannhans ego but we need to hire the best available DC no matter what scheme he wants to run, and then tell him " go help us win games" but i just have this terrible feeling that Shannhan is gonna try tpo prove everyone wrong about haslett and we will have another season of this.
 

Ax

Guest
I dont think it will happen because of shannhans ego but we need to hire the best available DC no matter what scheme he wants to run, and then tell him " go help us win games" but i just have this terrible feeling that Shannhan is gonna try tpo prove everyone wrong about haslett and we will have another season of this.
Unfortunately, this scenario will most likely occur.

Shanahan rarely reverses a Shanahan decision.

Yeesh!
 

Rymanofthenorth

BGObsessed
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
5,671
Reaction score
91
Points
128
Location
I live in the warmest city in the coldest provinc

UTEP

I know, i was just chatting with a buddy about the switch to the 3-4 a couple days ago (he is a bronco fan) and he says " shanny is a guy who when he has all the pieces can make something special, but you should never have given him control over the defence because he just doesnt know defence" I went online to see what sorts of defences he had in Denver and sadly its correct. but he has done a great job with rg3, between him and kyle of doing things to keep rg3 productive, i dont want to risk losing that. maybe we will just have to get used to shootouts lol
 

Ax

Guest
Yeah, I remember one of the last things he did there was bring in the entire Cleveland Dline. They sucked in Cleveland, and they sucked in Denver.
 

Dead Money

, Mike Wise HATE'r
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
4,799
Reaction score
5
Points
68


Man I quoted the excerpt below from another thread about Haslett. Shanny this and shanny that... My ass. You and your broncos friend can feed on this.... if Shanny is responsible for the Defense now... He was responsible for it then too. Prove me wrong. Shanny was a HEAD COACH in Denver. We was responsible for both offense and defense. As a head coach he averages about 13th on defense. Sorry but that's not too bad considering some of the offenses he's had..

You can harp on his last couple of years in Denver all you want. The Mo Clarett fiasco the Cleveland D-Line fiasco, etc.

There's a general manager here. Allen has to take the heat for some of this. All of you stuck in the Cerrato era just can it already. #1 problem over the past 20 years has been consistency in coaching and management overall. We finally have that, stop calling for someones head everytime you don't get your way like a petulant little child.

Haslett is the worst D-coordinator that Shanny has every had. Additionally the 3-4 took away the only thing we as fans could count on over the past 20 yrs...a half decent defense. But we're in it. We don't have the draft picks or the cap dollars to get out of it anytime soon. We are married to it for at least 2 more seasons. Get over it.

Can we bring in enough talent to make it work in that time? Prolly not as well as some of the other teams but we should be able to maintain a middle of the pack 13-18th ranked defense if some key players are found. Big if. Health has a lot to do with this right now.

Tell me who is available right now that would make this a top ten defense as assembled. Save your breath, there is nobody. I don't like Haslett, but we built this defense around someone who's not even currently playing and we have had a ton of bad luck with personnel.

Screaming every day that Haslett needs to be fired, we need to change our scheme and you were right we were wrong is just silly. Carry on.


I've been wondering to myself about Shanny's past D-coordinators. I was under the impression he went through a lot of them and fired them after poor seasons. Don't know why I never, I just never really paid much attention to the AFC let alone the AFC west before. Anyway was looking for a pattern that may suggest Haslett's time may be up and he's the worst D-coordinator that Shanny has ever had. (if you factor in this yr so far) Well except for the last one he had in Denver... yeah thats right, our CURRENT linebackers coach. (dread) Anway I jotted it down while I was doing it so I thought I'd share..


Greg Robinson 1995-2000
Defensive Ranks: 15th, 4th, 5th, 11th, 7th, 24th
AVG: 11th
W/L Records: 8/8, 13/3, 12/4, 14/2, 6/10, 11/5
AVG: 10.67 wins

Why Left? Fired amid criticism of the team's shoddy tackling and apparent lack of passion. Unable to put consistent pressure on opposing quarterbacks this season (2000), the Broncos were vulnerable to big plays and ranked last in the league against the pass. (credit to some internet source)

Ray Rhodes 2001-2002 (left WSH)
Ranks: 8th and 6th
AVG:7th
W/L Records: 8/8, 9/7
AVG 8.5 wins

Left for? Left in order to rejoin Holmgren in Seattle.

Larry Coyer 2003-2006
Ranks: 4th, 4th, 15th, 14th
AVG: 9th
W/L Records: 10/6, 10/6, 13/3, 9/7
AVG: 10.5 wins

Left for? Was released after defensive meltdown in the second half of the season. Went to Bucs as Dline coach. (credit to some internet source)

Bob Slowick 2007-08
Ranks: 19th, 29th
AVG: 24th
W/L Records: 7/9, 8/8
AVG: 7.5 wins
Left for? Head coach and staff released for coaching changes all around.


Jim Haslett 2010-2012
Ranks: 31st, 13th
AVG: 22
W/L Records: 6/10, 5/11
AVG: 5.5

I didn't count that we were 28th in the league before today's game and that we're now 3/4 but if I did he would show to be Shanny's worst D coordinator EVER.
 

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
8,116
Reaction score
1,347
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


Man I quoted the excerpt below from another thread about Haslett. Shanny this and shanny that... My ass. You and your broncos friend can feed on this.... if Shanny is responsible for the Defense now... He was responsible for it then too. Prove me wrong. Shanny was a HEAD COACH in Denver. We was responsible for both offense and defense. As a head coach he averages about 13th on defense. Sorry but that's not too bad considering some of the offenses he's had..

You can harp on his last couple of years in Denver all you want. The Mo Clarett fiasco the Cleveland D-Line fiasco, etc.

There's a general manager here. Allen has to take the heat for some of this. All of you stuck in the Cerrato era just can it already. #1 problem over the past 20 years has been consistency in coaching and management overall. We finally have that, stop calling for someones head everytime you don't get your way like a petulant little child.

Haslett is the worst D-coordinator that Shanny has every had. Additionally the 3-4 took away the only thing we as fans could count on over the past 20 yrs...a half decent defense. But we're in it. We don't have the draft picks or the cap dollars to get out of it anytime soon. We are married to it for at least 2 more seasons. Get over it.

Can we bring in enough talent to make it work in that time? Prolly not as well as some of the other teams but we should be able to maintain a middle of the pack 13-18th ranked defense if some key players are found. Big if. Health has a lot to do with this right now.

Tell me who is available right now that would make this a top ten defense as assembled. Save your breath, there is nobody. I don't like Haslett, but we built this defense around someone who's not even currently playing and we have had a ton of bad luck with personnel.

Screaming every day that Haslett needs to be fired, we need to change our scheme and you were right we were wrong is just silly. Carry on.

:cheers:

With you 100%. The majority of people calling for Haslett's head, were also calling for Williams' head because he couldn't manufacture turnovers... and so far this year we have 5 defensive TDs. We also have, for the first time in I cant remember how long, a positive turnover ratio. The goal was to force more turnovers and we've done that... and we've also lost half our starting Defensive unit at some point this season. The more i think about it, the more I'd rather just sit back and see how this thing pans out.
 

Ax

Guest
Haslett sucks. He always has, and he always will.

I realize we shouldn't really fire him during the season.

However, 2 seconds after the season ends, in February, I'd love to see him gone. And, it will have to be from getting fired. Cause there ain't a chance in hell any other team will hire him away from us.
 

servumtuum

The Owner's Favorite
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
0
Points
116
Location
Raleigh, NC

Indiana

Griffin is having an historically good rookie season, and it's largely going to waste. This defense needs a serious overall when the season is over, and then we need to pray that Griffin continues to be inhumanly awesome again.
Shanahan rarely reverses a Shanahan decision.
I know, i was just chatting with a buddy about the switch to the 3-4 a couple days ago (he is a bronco fan) and he says " shanny is a guy who when he has all the pieces can make something special, but you should never have given him control over the defence because he just doesnt know defence" I went online to see what sorts of defences he had in Denver and sadly its correct. but he has done a great job with rg3, between him and kyle of doing things to keep rg3 productive, i dont want to risk losing that. maybe we will just have to get used to shootouts lol
This is a great article followed by great posts that zero in like radar on the dilemma the Redskins are in.

Ax's comment about Shanny never reversing one of is decisions is almost painful in the way it alludes to a great irony here.

Shanahan has, to my great surprise, done precisely that in one aspect of the team

Think back to the McNabb debacle-I know, it turns my stomach too-but do it anyway. What was the core of the problem? Shanahan tried to cram a recalcitrant square peg in McNabb into the round hole of the system he-Shanahan-wanted to run. It didn't pan out-in fact it blew up in his face exactly because Shanahan was too stubborn to bend his system even a little to accomodate what skills McNabb had left-his infamous "my way or the highway" approach at work.

Now along comes Robert Griffin and what does Shanahan do? He comletely revamps his system, scheming, playcalling to maximize the skills and abilities Robert has, which are evidently out of the ordinary. The irony?

It's working. Magnificently.

Ryman's dilemma and mine are the same-I would not want to risk losing the synergy that has come from the combination of the brilliant packaged plays, options, multiple formations which, while at this point are still basically simple, are damnably hard for a defense to anticipate and react to.

They're based on the idea of making it almost impossible for the defense to make the right decision no matter what they do. The ultimate trap. In it's ideal form it's the defense that chooses the play based on how they commit which makes it very hard to recover when the offense then doesn't do what you were expecting. Misdirection at its best.

The dillemma? This is Shanahans doing.

It's RG3's as well.

This system wouldn't work anywhere near as well without RG3 and RG3 wouldn't be as effective with any other system as he is with this one. No other QB-especially a rookie-has the same combination of blinding speed-in movement, throwing, and decision making in just the right proportions to make this work. Yin and Yang-one without the other would be less effective.

That's the dilemma-Shanahan is apparently as clueless about defense as he has been brilliant about how to use a QB like Robert on offense.

There are and will be those who think replacing Shanahan is the answer.

My problem with that? I know of no other potential coach who I think could do halfway a good a job with Robert as Shanahan has.

None. Why?

They would would use their system-they would make the same mistake Shanny did with McNabb. The high-octane square peg of Robert Griffin III being forced into their round hole and losing the total effect.

And so I sit here in the dilemma with everyone else hoping something opens Shanahan's eyes-or forces his hand-to make the needed changes to our defense to make it even mid-pack level. If our D was even ranked 16th we'd be winning most games right now.
 
Last edited:

Ax

Guest
Poor comparison.

McGagg was a set in his ways, overrated douchebag. His obvious failure was the only thing that made Shanny reverse his decision. Which, he still hates to do. Especially because he's convinced he can get blood out of turnips. And when he can't, it's the turnips fault.

Saying no other coaching staff could get as much out of Robert is a wonderful statement that simply cannot be proven, or dis-proven. It's an opinion. Nothing more.

He definitely incorporated Robert into his offense. Any decent coach does that. He get no credit for that.
 

Elephant

The Commissioner
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
24,943
Reaction score
529
Points
1,143

Florida State

Who was Mike's first choice? I don't recall.

A quick Google search produces' Zimmer's name, which is kind of familiar. Is that who you are talking about?

Yes Lanky, that was Shanahan's first choice. He decided to stay put. Why? Is Marvin Lewis someone you'd rather work for?

At this point, we should be raiding practice squads throughout the league for a young CB or safety to come in to at leasttry them out. We need something on this defense or we are going to end up losing most of the rest of our games. Yes, our offense is electric, but this secondary is worse than any of us would have imagined!
 

servumtuum

The Owner's Favorite
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
7,138
Reaction score
0
Points
116
Location
Raleigh, NC

Indiana

Poor comparison.

McGagg was a set in his ways, overrated douchebag. His obvious failure was the only thing that made Shanny reverse his decision. Which, he still hates to do. Especially because he's convinced he can get blood out of turnips. And when he can't, it's the turnips fault.

Saying no other coaching staff could get as much out of Robert is a wonderful statement that simply cannot be proven, or dis-proven. It's an opinion. Nothing more.

He definitely incorporated Robert into his offense. Any decent coach does that. He get no credit for that.
Has Shanahan ever incorporated the packaged plays/option reads like he has with Robert to the extent he has now? If so then I am lacking that knowledge.

Opinion? Of course it is-if it isn't I usually include links to external sources providing evidence.
 

Ax

Guest
Has Shanahan ever incorporated the packaged plays/option reads like he has with Robert to the extent he has now? If so then I am lacking that knowledge.
My guess would be, had he ever had a player like Robert before, he would have.
 

Henry

I drink and I know things
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,900
Reaction score
226
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


There's a general manager here. Allen has to take the heat for some of this. All of you stuck in the Cerrato era just can it already. #1 problem over the past 20 years has been consistency in coaching and management overall. We finally have that, stop calling for someones head everytime you don't get your way like a petulant little child.
I don't know why you're so worked up, but that is an interesting point. I almost brought it up myself. What is Allen's role here? He was brought in in order to lure Shanahan here. How much influence has he had, and how much does he have?

I don't really know. I assume he's here to carry out Shanahan's wishes. Maybe that's not the case but I was under the impression that Shanahan has the first and last say with this team.

That doesn't mean I'm equating our current set-up to Synder and Ceratto. And I don't think anyone else is either. Perhaps your frustration is something that's carried over from another thread? In any case, you should probably take a deep breath and calm down.

Haslett is the worst D-coordinator that Shanny has every had. Additionally the 3-4 took away the only thing we as fans could count on over the past 20 yrs...a half decent defense. But we're in it. We don't have the draft picks or the cap dollars to get out of it anytime soon. We are married to it for at least 2 more seasons. Get over it.
I think after three years of terrible defense it's not crazy or petulant or reactionary to question the abilities of the defensive coordinator. This is not Year One of the Haslett Era. Lack of continuity isn't the problem. It's clearly bigger than that.
 

Dead Money

, Mike Wise HATE'r
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
4,799
Reaction score
5
Points
68


Its gonna suck to be you for at very least a few years Ax. Mike's here and he's not going anywhere. Oh boy how fun will you be when he retires and they name his kid the head coach?

El, you've got to imagine that Zim held on in Cincy 'cause he'd have a shot at the head coaching spot soon enough. I think he was right. Would have loved to have him here though, always admired the way his players played for him.
 

Neophyte

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,681
Reaction score
303
Points
238
Location
Dallas


Bruce is here as more of a Salary Cap/Contract type. I'm sure he has input where personnel are concerned but Shanahan has the last word in that area, at least as I understand it.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friend 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you Sandy ❤
    Top