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Shanahan on Hot Seat?

the thing was, Zorn was never even a great OC he was a friggin QB coach. someone needs to show him the stats regarding guys who won multiple superbowls and how well they did somewhere else.

And he wasn't even a great QB coach. If he had been, he would have moved up the ladder much more quickly. His QB coaching resume wasn't even that impressive.

The fact that he had been in the league that long, yet had never been interviewed for an OC position should have set bells off.
 
Thats the crux of the problem with guys like Jerry and Danny, isn't it? They eschew traditional wisdom because they think they know better than anyone else.

"well, I see no one has interviewed Zorn for a coordinator position, but it's because only i can see his true potential (to suck, apparently)!"

"I see no coach who has won a SB with one team has ever won with a different team, but we're different, damn it!"

Sigh.
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Andy Reid was not a great OC either. However, they should have seen that Zorn was the 'aww shucks' kind of guy and not hired him.

However, I don't think they hired him to be a 'real head coach.' I believe they hired him as a 'do boy.' Do as your told or your fired. It was someone they could control easily.
 
However, I don't think they hired him to be a 'real head coach.' I believe they hired him as a 'do boy.' Do as your told or your fired. It was someone they could control easily.

That is exactly why Williams was not hired. Sometimes I wonder what the team would have looked like had Williams stayed on as HC after Gibbs left.
 
Could not agree more Elephant. I really wanted Gregg Williams as the head coach.
 
Wilbon calling for Shanahan's head again today on PTI. Said he hasn't done anything this year, and doesn't deserve to be back.
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At what point do we say this has been a huge mistake and pull the pin? I was willing to wait until the offseason and give them the second full offseason but now , not only are we a zoo but we look like morons on a daily basis, ffs is there even possibly anything else that can get us in the headlines?
 
You're right, 'we' do look like 'morons' on a daily basis - at least those that are freaking out because Donovan McNabb isn't the second coming and Shanahan has decided not to play him.

Seriously guys - take a deep breath. Find something to do, knit something, do some jumping jacks, whatever it takes to burn off some of that anxiety - but if Shanahan goes anywhere after year one, it's because he wants to. The idea that one year into this thing, he is doomed and a failure is, to be kind, silly. I said it a couple weeks ago, its YEAR ONE (I generally don't use all caps, but I have noticed that seems to appeal to some of you, so I want to make sure you can read it). Did you expect the Super Bowl? Did you really even expect the playoffs? Hell - did you even expect a winning season???

We won four games last year.

F.O.U.R.

I'll confess, I don't like some of the decisions made (McNabb included). We don't appear to have made much progress this year. But enough with the hyperventilating. Shanahan inherited a (mostly) bad team. He's not Jesus. He deserves a reasonable chance to turn the franchise around.

And I think any of you that believe he won't get a reasonable chance are living in fantasy land.
 
I'm sure Shanahan will get a "reasonable" chance to prove himself. I would just feel a lot better if he ACTED like a "reasonable" coach.

Not really sure McNabb has been given a "reasonable" chance. It certainly doesn't seem "reasonable" that Shanahan would agree to sign a guy to a long-term contract and then bench him for the remainder of the season. Sure, it doesn't cost that much to cut him after this season but "that much" equals $3.5 million. Is it "reasonable" to squander "that much" of your bosses money when you simply could have cut him after this season? I assume the $3.5 million and that contract extension is going to be used to ensure that we get something for him.

Then again, is it "reasonable" to expect to get decent value for a guy who's not even going to be starting the last four games?

I hope there's a method to Shanahan's madness but at this point, I can't help but question those methods. Hope I'm not being un-"reasonable". ;)
 
Jimbo,
I'm not arguing those aren't legitimate questions, and you're a smart guy (as are most here), but if Shanahan believes he made a mistake with the McNabb move - does it make more sense to continue down that road, or turn away from the decision?

The interesting thing is, if what we're seeing now is the definitive indicator that McNabb is through in DC after one season, it may be evidence that Shanahan is willing to admit an error in judgment vs. a demonstration of 'arrogance' that a lot of folks are up in arms about.

I'm as irritated with the course of this season as anyone. I promise you that's the case. I drove 12 hours to attend a game in miserable weather last weekend. It wasn't a good experience. But that doesn't change the fact that, no matter how bad this season, or how many mistakes Shanahan has made, he has proven he can field a winning team (more than once) and deserves more than a one year benefit of the doubt.

My opinion. Not slamming anyone (or at least not intending to do so) with a contrary opinion. That's just my own.
 
I would have a lot more respect for him if he just came out and said "I made a mistake in trading for Donovan and I made a mistake in signing him to a long-term contract and giving him an extra $3.5 million for this season". His beating-around-the-bush excuses are wearing thin.
 
This most recent decision is ridiculous. I have said from the start that Mcrapp was a mistake, but if hes healthy he gives us a better chance to beat the Cowpies than Rex does. Does Shannhan just not understand what a cowboys redskins game even means? does he care?

I don't expect him to get canned, I think however that im getting tired with all the "year one" talk and the " give him time to turn it around" in year one we have tread water and did nothing other than waste a year and become markedly worse, rather than progress at all, we are getting worse with each and every game. then he does this idiot move which pretty much means we wasted that 2 rounder and most likely a third rounder next year too. Its like he cant seem to understand that his moves have impact beyond how it affects HIM. when you are driving off of a cliff do you always have to hit the ground before you say " well this isnt working well at all".

We one 4 games last year , in a season when we had almost an entire backup oline in all season and had 2 starting Ots who wouldnt start on most div 2 teams. when we were hammered by injuries to key starters and we had a brutal offence. This year after an offseason in which we should have gotten better by adding more talent than we lost, and despite our record being marginally better, in almost every measurable stat we are now worse with no real prospect of getting better. on this team who gets better in another year?

As of right now Boone, tell me one position where we have a young up and comer with upside who will be better next year rather than just another year older and slower. (besides williams). Banks maybe, armstrong maybe? so next year we can expect more of the same. replacing more guys with yet more guys who wont know the system. So next year we can say " well maybe we will be better next year."

The reason im so choked is simple ,Mcnabb now effectively has zero trade value ,maybe we can trade Mcnabb and Albert to the titans for vince and a low round pick? lol

at some point, you have to start asking, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? I hope someone asks Shanny some hard questions, and I hope when he trots out his cliche answers as he has all year that they call him on that too. he doesnt have carte blanche in my eyes anymore, I think every move should be analysed.

I see your points Boone and I will admit you even had me onside for a bit, but I dont agree that he inherited a terrible team as a matter of fact, I dont think he inherited a team that was all that bad, a 5th ranked defence with depth at DE and a top 5 defencive player to build around, a defence that was only a starting Sam and FS away from being among the better defences in the NFL.


what we needed last year was to add some Olinemen, a few receivers a running back and develop our offence, then perhaps draft or try to trade for a qb when we were more settled on O. add some depth and some aggression on defence.

The fact is this team was far better than its record, its annoying that people trot that out as if it makes our failures this year better? Remember Miami went from 1 win to the playoffs in one season. we won two more games than last season but regressed almost everywhere and got blown out more than we have in years.

we went from bad to still bad only with more holes. we now will have holes at several more spots than we did last year. DE went from our deepest position on the team to a huge need, we need a NT now, we need another OLB, we need a C, we need a G, unless brown wakes up we need a RT still, we need a #1 WR still need a FS, gonna need a CB, an ILB. It just baffles me that we have wasted ANOTHER year.

You are right though I gotta find a hobby, my favourite team is KILLING me here lol.
 
if he is going to admit to any mistakes (which I doubt) it would be nice if he admitted he knows nothing of defence and hires a real DC and gives him some autonomy next year.

By the way its a measure of my respect for you Boone (and a few others whose opinions on this differ from mine) who at least give a decent argument for why they feel the way they do that prevents me from going off, I just cannot see now how any of whats happened can be spun in a positive light. Im trying man, I want this team to do well, but im struggling with watching them act stupid.
 
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Jimbo,
I'm not arguing those aren't legitimate questions, and you're a smart guy (as are most here), but if Shanahan believes he made a mistake with the McNabb move - does it make more sense to continue down that road, or turn away from the decision?

The interesting thing is, if what we're seeing now is the definitive indicator that McNabb is through in DC after one season, it may be evidence that Shanahan is willing to admit an error in judgment vs. a demonstration of 'arrogance' that a lot of folks are up in arms about.

I'm as irritated with the course of this season as anyone. I promise you that's the case. I drove 12 hours to attend a game in miserable weather last weekend. It wasn't a good experience. But that doesn't change the fact that, no matter how bad this season, or how many mistakes Shanahan has made, he has proven he can field a winning team (more than once) and deserves more than a one year benefit of the doubt.

My opinion. Not slamming anyone (or at least not intending to do so) with a contrary opinion. That's just my own.


Boone, normally I agree with you. But here, not so much. I think you do stick with McNabb because if Shanahan honestly thinks Rex gives us a better chance to win against the Cowboys than McNabb, we are in more trouble than I thought. I hope to God I'm wrong, but the Rex I remember was terrible. Granted, McNabb has been bad this season, very bad even. But his mobility alone has extended some plays, which is exceptionally important behind our offensive offensive line. Rex can't do that. He's gonna get killed.

And are you telling me that Shanahan is evaluating our QB for next year? If Rex is on the roster next year, I will be surprised, unless he proves me wrong in a major way over the next three games. Beck? Not a chance.

My problem stems from the extension they game McNabb. Why do it? I mean they did it a month ago when McNabb was struggling to pick up the offense, was still throwing dirt balls and making lots of mistakes. Did they expect that job security of the extension was going to give him the confidence he needed to turn it around and play like an all-pro? That extension almost, in retrospect, seems like a PR move. They have just humiliated McNabb in Detroit, the fans were up in arms over the loss, there was a week off for the bye, so they diverted our attention by throwing out the contract and saying, "see! we're serious of Donovan as our starter, why else would we give him this huge contract?". And we bought it, because that's what fans do.

I almost wonder if there was some sort of backroom deal with him at that point. I wonder if both sides agreed that Donovan wasn't coming back next year at that point, but agreed to put on the happy faces and sign the relatively meaningless contract to appease the fans.

I know, I've got my tin-foil hat on right now.

Regardless, if we have decided he won't be here next year, the contract does give us the ability to hold onto him and trade him in the odd season, which is no doubt what we will try to do.

Then why bench him now for God's sake? Argh! This is what I am frustrated about. Do you think there is a general manager in the league now who thinks for one nano-second that McNabb will be here next year? So why trade anything above a 6th or 7th for him? What's the point. His contract is manageable, so claim him off waivers, or wait until he clears waivers and negotiate a new deal with him.

If their plan was to trade him all along, why ruin it by benching him?

Now, as I stated somewhere else, if there plan is to test out the youth of the team and see what we have, then I damn well better see youth across the board, especially on the O-line on Sunday. To me, this is the only acceptable scenario under which we bench McNabb. This would preserve his trade value to an extent b/c we could look at teams and tell them it was an evaluatory youth movement.

And if not that, then yes, as Jimbo suggests, come out and admit you made a mistake. Hold a press conference and tell the fans that McNabb is still a great player, but just a bad fit for the offense you are trying to install. Give the rest of the league some illusion that we are benching him because of the bad fit, not because he sucks.

Either way Boone, I just feel that Shanahan has handled this entire season about as poorly as one could handle it. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not hoping he gets fired, nor am I hoping he quits. But I do think both are a possibility. The fact is, if we go to Dallas Sunday and lay a massive turd-sandwich, getting spanked by 30+ (which I think is a possibility with Rex under center), Snyder may be looking at another fan revolt like last year. Snyder seems to have a history of making rash, quick decisions. Therefore, would it shock me if we were going through yet another coaching search this off season, particularly if we get our ass handed to us in Dallas?

Would it shock you?

Again, I think Shanny deserves more time. But I also think he has mis-managed Fat Al, McNabb, Haslett, the 3-4, etc. This year is not an example of why he will be a HOF coach. His biggest mistake, however, may be underestimating how important the Dallas game is to the Redskins. If we are competitive but still lose, he will be OK. If we get crushed? Yikes.
 
There's no reason to start McNabb anymore. He's been terrible and he's done. Admit the mistake and move on. See if Rex is a viable backup for next year. The Dallas game means nothing. We are non competitive. I could care less how the remaining games go at this point. I'm all about the future. I hope this team is as well for once. It'll be the first time in 20+ years, if so.

Shanny may have screwed the pooch on the move to the 3-4, mostly because of Haslett. But he's done some of what we've clamored for. Taken charge of the team. Made the decisions he wanted to make without regard to primadona players or a meddling owner. It may backfire or it might work out. But one year is certainly too short a time to know. I believe we are in the midst of a complete purge and rebuild. Maybe the biggest problem was Shanahans and Allens miscalculation of the state of the team, or their unwillingness to admit the painfully obviously.
 
We all know McNabb struggles without a running game or a receiving back like Westbrook in his prime. Trying to depend on him to win games with his arm is ALWAYS an iffy proposition based on his accuracy. When he's hot, he's HOT. When he sucks, well....you get the drift.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced now that McNabb was signed to the long-term contract to ensure we would get something in trade for him. Whatever pick we get for him, probably no better than a 4th rounder, is gonna cost Danny $3.5 million. That's expensive for a 4th round pick. I also think the reason we're sitting him is so he can get healthy and won't be damaged goods at trade time. Sure, it seems like a cold business practice, and one the fans totally hate, but it's the only explanation that actually makes sense to me. Anything else will just make me go off on a :rant:
 
Boone, normally I agree with you. But here, not so much. I think you do stick with McNabb because if Shanahan honestly thinks Rex gives us a better chance to win against the Cowboys than McNabb, we are in more trouble than I thought. I hope to God I'm wrong, but the Rex I remember was terrible. Granted, McNabb has been bad this season, very bad even. But his mobility alone has extended some plays, which is exceptionally important behind our offensive offensive line. Rex can't do that. He's gonna get killed.

And are you telling me that Shanahan is evaluating our QB for next year? If Rex is on the roster next year, I will be surprised, unless he proves me wrong in a major way over the next three games. Beck? Not a chance.

My problem stems from the extension they game McNabb. Why do it? I mean they did it a month ago when McNabb was struggling to pick up the offense, was still throwing dirt balls and making lots of mistakes. Did they expect that job security of the extension was going to give him the confidence he needed to turn it around and play like an all-pro? That extension almost, in retrospect, seems like a PR move. They have just humiliated McNabb in Detroit, the fans were up in arms over the loss, there was a week off for the bye, so they diverted our attention by throwing out the contract and saying, "see! we're serious of Donovan as our starter, why else would we give him this huge contract?". And we bought it, because that's what fans do.

I almost wonder if there was some sort of backroom deal with him at that point. I wonder if both sides agreed that Donovan wasn't coming back next year at that point, but agreed to put on the happy faces and sign the relatively meaningless contract to appease the fans.

I know, I've got my tin-foil hat on right now.

Regardless, if we have decided he won't be here next year, the contract does give us the ability to hold onto him and trade him in the odd season, which is no doubt what we will try to do.

Then why bench him now for God's sake? Argh! This is what I am frustrated about. Do you think there is a general manager in the league now who thinks for one nano-second that McNabb will be here next year? So why trade anything above a 6th or 7th for him? What's the point. His contract is manageable, so claim him off waivers, or wait until he clears waivers and negotiate a new deal with him.

If their plan was to trade him all along, why ruin it by benching him?

Now, as I stated somewhere else, if there plan is to test out the youth of the team and see what we have, then I damn well better see youth across the board, especially on the O-line on Sunday. To me, this is the only acceptable scenario under which we bench McNabb. This would preserve his trade value to an extent b/c we could look at teams and tell them it was an evaluatory youth movement.

And if not that, then yes, as Jimbo suggests, come out and admit you made a mistake. Hold a press conference and tell the fans that McNabb is still a great player, but just a bad fit for the offense you are trying to install. Give the rest of the league some illusion that we are benching him because of the bad fit, not because he sucks.

Either way Boone, I just feel that Shanahan has handled this entire season about as poorly as one could handle it. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not hoping he gets fired, nor am I hoping he quits. But I do think both are a possibility. The fact is, if we go to Dallas Sunday and lay a massive turd-sandwich, getting spanked by 30+ (which I think is a possibility with Rex under center), Snyder may be looking at another fan revolt like last year. Snyder seems to have a history of making rash, quick decisions. Therefore, would it shock me if we were going through yet another coaching search this off season, particularly if we get our ass handed to us in Dallas?

Would it shock you?

Again, I think Shanny deserves more time. But I also think he has mis-managed Fat Al, McNabb, Haslett, the 3-4, etc. This year is not an example of why he will be a HOF coach. His biggest mistake, however, may be underestimating how important the Dallas game is to the Redskins. If we are competitive but still lose, he will be OK. If we get crushed? Yikes.

I'm as puzzled by the move and timing of it as you guys are...and I'm not so much 'defending' it as trying to give it some context. Couple of things - I have read a lot of commentary about the 'same old same old' related to this year's decisions. That's a fair comment to make in criticizing Snyder, but Shanahan and Allen have had only a year here and can only reasonably be held accountable for the decisions since they got here.

When it comes to the Mcnabb decision, firstly we don't know what's going on with him and the coaching staff. They may have given him very specific guidance on what they want to see from him, and repeatedly had him not follow that guidance. I give Mcnabb credit for being a classy guy and saying the right things in public, but that doesn't mean he's doing what he's supposed to be doing or listening to the coaching staff. Somethings not right there, and hasn't been for awhile, and this may have as much to do with those dynamics as wanting to look at Grossman.

As for Grossman - right now, he's a failed starter. That's who he is. But K. Shanahan apparently thinks he has rehabilitated many of Grossman's previous issues. I am skeptical, but Grossman has enough natural talent to be worth taking a look. I am surprised by the benching of Mcnabb, but I would disagree that the decision to sit him is 'crazy' or proof of coaching 'incompetence'. I think the decision that Mcnabb would not be here after this year was made weeks ago (and I agree with it), and in light of that, we don't have much to gain by continuing to play him (unless you feel a pyrrhic victory against Dallas should be our top priority). If we are going to blow up the QB position after this year, wouldn't it be helpful to know if Grossman CAN serve as a competent back-up, or even temporary placeholder at starte if we somehow do manage to get a young QB stud in the draft?

I also disagree this season has been a total disaster. We've seen the team able to mount an effective running game, and we've seen them do it with a mostly crap offensive line. That gives me some hope for the future. We've seen some young talent emerge and play well - not as much as I'd have liked to have seen, but we've seen some of it. And despite all the hand-wringing over the lack of progress overall, we have won more games than last year and with a reduction in some of the ridiculous mistakes at crucial game moments, could potentially have gotten to a .500 record this year. Have I liked what I've seen? Nope. But Shanahan was out of coaching for a bit, and I expect things to improve. The other thing I've noted, and which most totally ignore, is that the players appear to mostly still be on board with coaches. I think that's also a positive sign.

I think the idea that Shanahan gets one year to make the fans feel good, and that Snyder moves on after just a single season, is just PFT fantasy talk. It's not going to happen, and more importantly, it shouldn't happen. Shanahan has built very successful teams in the past, and he might do it here if we can be patient. I think Snyder has hitched his horse to Shanahan and Allen and we're in this thing for the next 4-5 years.
 
I think the idea that Shanahan gets one year to make the fans feel good, and that Snyder moves on after just a single season, is just PFT fantasy talk. It's not going to happen, and more importantly, it shouldn't happen. Shanahan has built very successful teams in the past, and he might do it here if we can be patient. I think Snyder has hitched his horse to Shanahan and Allen and we're in this thing for the next 4-5 years.

Not sure if Danny is tied to him for 4 or 5 years but I agree with everything else you say here. Just hoping Shanahan turns out to not be :insane:
 
Year One. I will not complain about the coaching, GM, and owner. Last year, we demanded changes via an organized protest, a facebook campaign, an internet barrage, and advertising through the radio and display signs. Our pleas were answered. The changes were made and it is up to us to give it time to work. This process takes patience and very few seem to possess that attitude. You can't win with a 4-12 team - it takes many adjustments.

Year two. We should start to see some subtle changes and see it on the field. It won't be perfect and it could fall just short of a playoff appearance, but the trends favor the Redskins going in the right direction. Some will continue to vehemently argue that the coaches should be replaced and nothing short of 16-0 is acceptable. Crazy talk.

Year three. Playoffs are certainly on the agenda and a winning team is to be expected. Many of the pieces are in place and the team is playing with an attitude that we like and enjoy. Many fans are reluctant to admit that keeping the coaches and GM was the right call. Suddenly, an unfortunate number of injuries hit the team and a 9-7 record sees the Redskins just missing the playoffs. Fans scream for everything to change, but the rest of the league notices that the coach has one of his best years despite the rash of players on IR.

Year four. It all comes together and the Redskins are a solid football team. Some fans will still find something to complain about and never be completely happy.

Year five. Some fans still feel the to complain and FedEx Field itself becomes a target.

Year ten. A new field is built with a capacity for 500,000. Tickets range from $25.00 to $80.00 (for the best seats). Concession sales are the most reasonable in twenty-two years. All traffic problems have been solved. Tailgating is the best of any venue. The team will easily win their fifth straight Super Bowl. However, fans begin to complain that there is no free room and board near the stadium on the night before a home game.

The cycle never ends.
 
I think it's possible they feel McNabb's inaccuracy on short throws, a staple of the WCO, is as big a contributing factor to our problems as other things. I know I do. A QB that can consistently hit quick, short throws accurately in stride, takes a lot of pressure off the Oline. This is something McNabb has always been poor at, and why I couldn't understand signing him in the first place.

I've never followed Grossman closely, but isn't his biggest problem been decision making? I'm curious to see what he's got. Can't be any worse. Losing is losing.
 

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