Shanahan on franchise QB's

[Skinsfan76]

I don't think Gibbs had much say the second time thru. Wouldn't we have drafted some O-lineman if he did?
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[Om]

Please don't tell me that anyone here really subscribes to the notion that Jason Campbell was "Dan Snyder's pick." Because I think we'd probably have to shut the place down.

Just sayin'.

 

[Boone]

Umm... we have chosen a QB in the 1st round twice in the last 10 years. I would say we have been trying. And if you want to say they were late 1st round choices, Aaron Rodgers was chosen one slot ahead of Jason Campbell and Ramsey was chosen before David Garrard. Now, I know Garrard is no Aaron Rodgers but there are some who say we should sign him still for veteran depth next year.

I am not saying we shouldn't go after another "Peyton Manning", but to say we haven't tried is incorrect; 2 1st round QB's in 10 years suggests otherwise.

We've selected a QB in the first round twice in 10 years.

It's been more than 10 years since we selected a first round QB

Ramsey and Campbell were both significant reaches, and even with the reach, they were selected so late in the first round as to barely qualify as such.

Neither guy was special, or should ever have been expected to have the potential to be special.

 

[Boone]

The idea that Joe Gibbs allowed Dan Synder to dictate to him who we selected in the draft is laughable. That he would've seriously let a zero like Cerrato bully him into making a pick he didn't fully endorse goes well beyond that. There's no question - for owner/fan Snyder, Gibbs wasn't just a personal hero, he was a savior.

Nothing happened at Redskins Park during Gibbs II that Joe Gibbs didn't want to happen. Period.

 

[Elephant]

We've selected a QB in the first round twice in 10 years.

It's been more than 10 years since we selected a first round QB

Ramsey and Campbell were both significant reaches, and even with the reach, they were selected so late in the first round as to barely qualify as such.

Neither guy was special, or should ever have been expected to have the potential to be special.

No, it was almost 20 years ago that we took our 1st round QB, Heath Shuler...er...umm...Gus Ferrotte...umm...

Late first round picks do not disqualify the team from a franchise QB. Just look at the Campbell situation, arguably the best QB in the league was chosen one slot in front of him. Our problem was he was a reach because we traded more than one pick for him. That was a waste. And that is what I fear we could do for another "risk" in RGIII. He is not a guarantee in the NFL.

 

[Skinsfan76]

So El, what is your opinion on what we should do at QB if Flynn is unavailable?
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[Boone]

No, it was almost 20 years ago that we took our 1st round QB, Heath Shuler...er...umm...Gus Ferrotte...umm...

Late first round picks do not disqualify the team from a franchise QB. Just look at the Campbell situation, arguably the best QB in the league was chosen one slot in front of him. Our problem was he was a reach because we traded more than one pick for him. That was a waste. And that is what I fear we could do for another "risk" in RGIII. He is not a guarantee in the NFL.

You're changing the topic again My post had nothing to do with whether or not you can find a franchise QB at any point in the draft - yeah, it's possible. I was simply pointing out that there's a big difference in commitment level between those kind of late first round picks, and dropping a top 5 pick on one of the top 2 QBs in the draft, or moving up to get 'the guy'.

Very few scouts had Ramsey or Campbell rated to even be taken where they were. So the fact that we picked them in the waning moments of the first round isn't (for me anyway) evidence of how committed the Redskins have been to finding a long-term starting QB. My opinion.

Btw - you aren't really lumping Gus in with Heath Shuler are you? I actually think Frerotte was a very good QB - when he wasn't head-butting immovable objects.

 

[Ax]

Please don't tell me that anyone here really subscribes to the notion that Jason Campbell was "Dan Snyder's pick." Because I think we'd probably have to shut the place down.

Just sayin'.

There's no question - for owner/fan Snyder, Gibbs wasn't just a personal hero, he was a savior.

Nothing happened at Redskins Park during Gibbs II that Joe Gibbs didn't want to happen. Period.

Thank you both for continually restoring my faith, that there is sanity to be found around here.

 

[Elephant]

No, I think Gus was solid, especially since we got him in the 7th round. When Heath held out that year and Gus was lighting it up in camp, I was clamoring for them to let Heath sit out.

Just think, we could have had Trent Dilfer!

And Patrick Ramsey may not have been in the long term plans as a franchise QB but the way I remember the Campbell pick, he was definitely a long term plan for this franchise. We committed 3 draft picks to get him. In other words, we wasted at least 2 picks, some would say 3.

 

[Boone]

You make a good point on JC...although the kind of contrasting commitment I'd like to see is going after that 'sure fire' QB with a top pick. I'm not saying that guarantees anything, but despite all we spent to get Campbell, we were one of the few teams who really thought he was going to be an NFL starter. Both the Campbell and Ramsey picks were close-your-eyes-and-pray gambles. I'd like us to finally get a QB who at least comes with scouting consensus that he'll be a future star. That doesn't guarantee anything. But it would be reassuring that we're not just taking a stab in the dark as we have in the past.

 

[Ax]

Funny thing about the ole QB tree.

You can shake the piss out of it, and find a worm in every one that hits the ground.

And, you can sometimes walk up, find one that fell off on its own, and have it be the best one ever.

You just never know.

Let's do both, just to cover our ass.

 

[Boone]

Bravo Ax

 

[Elephant]

You make a good point on JC...although the kind of contrasting commitment I'd like to see is going after that 'sure fire' QB with a top pick. I'm not saying that guarantees anything, but despite all we spent to get Campbell, we were one of the few teams who really thought he was going to be an NFL starter. Both the Campbell and Ramsey picks were close-your-eyes-and-pray gambles. I'd like us to finally get a QB who at least comes with scouting consensus that he'll be a future star. That doesn't guarantee anything. But it would be reassuring that we're not just taking a stab in the dark as we have in the past.

Yeah, we've found ourselves in the same debate, risk v. reward. I can't wait for free agency!

I hope we get that QB too Boone. It would be such a delight to end up with our QB for the next 10 years from this off-season.

How about this scenario? We have been watching Irsay live it up in the headlines lately. The man is thriving on the media attention! We put all our plans into place to trade up for RGIII having worked out a trade with the Rams. Irsay, the media whore he is, makes the big splash and decides to go with the young dynamo instead of Andrew Luck. The Rams are unprepared for this scenario and don't immediately jack the asking price for the #2 pick. We finish the trade, move up and end up with Andrew Luck instead of RGIII!

Oh the joy of offseason!

 

[servumtuum]

And, while all this commotion is going on, the Browns quietly package both their #1 picks, their #2 and #3 and #1 and #2 and #3 for 2013 and one-up everybody else and grab Luck at the last minute.

The offseason is getting better and better.

 

[Yusuf06]

Those of you hating on the idea of drafting Weeden or Wilson aren't taking into account how bad our QB situation is. We really need two QBs, a starter and a backup. Sure we can keep Grossman around for a while but he's not a guy we can rely on to carry the team if our starter is out for the season. In my mind that's like having no backup at all.

Additionally, no matter who we take as our starter, as the Baby Heath/Frerotte situation shows, you never can tell. Weeden and Wilson aren't perfect but we could do way, way worse. IMHO getting a solid developmental QB in the 3rd or 4th round isn't optional for us, it's required. In fact, I subscribe to the notion that a team should draft at least one developmental QB every year.

 

[Skinsfan76]

Those of you hating on the idea of drafting Weeden or Wilson aren't taking into account how bad our QB situation is. We really need two QBs, a starter and a backup. Sure we can keep Grossman around for a while but he's not a guy we can rely on to carry the team if our starter is out for the season. In my mind that's like having no backup at all.

Additionally, no matter who we take as our starter, as the Baby Heath/Frerotte situation shows, you never can tell. Weeden and Wilson aren't perfect but we could do way, way worse. IMHO getting a solid developmental QB in the 3rd or 4th round isn't optional for us, it's required. In fact, I subscribe to the notion that a team should draft at least one developmental QB every year.

I agree with you that we coudl have two new QBs on the roster. Beck is gone! Grossman, I keep going back and fourth on. I think they will look for a QB in free agency and if they get a guy they like they might not bring Grossman back. Then I think they draft a guy. If the only QB they sign in free agency is Grossman then I could actually see them drafting two guys. One guy early and then a developmental guys later. I think ideally they want a solid FA QB and then draft their future QB in the draft.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Campbell wasnt that bad in fact had he had a decent OC and Oline, I think he would have been solid if not great, the problem was Joe was operating like the skins were the skins of the 90's with a solid all around team and depth, we were not.

I am actually with Yusuf on one important thing, we should be taking one developmental qb every single year. remember, Brady was a late rounder who hardly played in college, maybe we find a diamond, we found frerotte in the seventh after all.

the only thing I dont want, is for us to give up anything more than a 1st and 3rd, to move up. we arent in that spot yet.

 

[fansince62]

It was the three-headed monster, wasn't it? Gibbs, Cerrato & Snyder sat down together to discuss personnel moves, right?

correct..........

 

[fansince62]

Thank you both for continually restoring my faith, that there is sanity to be found around here.

and we all know Gibbs II had it all together!!!! Gibbs II missed a lot of stuff - including during games. this is a myth......he didn't rule with an iron hand.....it was a triumvirate....just as Lanky says.

 

[Ax]

and we all know Gibbs II had it all together!!!!

The problem with Gibbs2 is that it's unfairly judged in comparison to Gibbs1.
If Gibbs1 is taken away from the equation, Gibbs2 was, hands down, the best football we've seen around here in 20yrs. Including the last 2. Now, that might not be saying a whole lot, but it is the fact.

Gibbs II missed a lot of stuff - including during games.

Desmond Howard, Tory Smith, Walter Murray="Stuff missed" during Gibbs1, if that's what you're referring to. And one ill fated time out attempt shouldn't mark the man for life. Which coach was it that just tried the same thing, only he didn't have a timeout or it would have been a penalty, in this years playoffs? Shanny doesn't make mistakes? Hell, most coaches in the NFL do. Why does Gibbs2 get held to a higher standard? Oh, that's right, Gibbs1. Caller of "Rocket Screen" in SB XVIII. Weak sauce.

this is a myth......he didn't rule with an iron hand.....it was a triumvirate....just as Lanky says.

The "Common Sense" rule of thumb overrides the "myth" factor here, for me. Dan Snyder seems a hero worshiper. Gibbs, or at least Gibbs1, is everybody in Redskins Nation's hero. So, suffice it to say, JJG had final say everywhere he wanted it. And that's just using my own common sense, from a distance, sitting behind a computer monitor, just like you and Lanky.

Om, Boone, and the boys, spent a little time in the building. Gives them a leg up on the three of us, in my mind. Even if they were/are worshipers too.