Shanahan is Stealing the Money

[GSF]

From the very start of Shanahan's tenure, we didn't need a complete overhaul on both sides of the ball. While there were some aging players on defense, it was solid enough to suffice while the offense needed rebuilt. Instead, Shanahan decided to rebuild the defense and add Donovan McNabb, Larry Johnson and Willie Parker to make our offense better weakening our defense with a new scheme that didn't fit our players. Didn't work out very well. Shanahan put us in a hole his 1st 2 seasons.

And I don't think we need 100% turnover now, but we are in need a vast tunrover on this roster. I would say at least 50% of our starters need replaced. And I don't trust Shanahan the VP to get Shanahan the coach those players he needs.

I agree with every word, and I think you and I are on the same page, especially regarding MS. My only area that I disagree with you on is that I believe that we are actually in much better shape than we were after Zorn simply because I do not believe we had anyone on the roster as talented as RG3, Garcon, Morris, Williams, Orakpo, and Kerrigan when Shanny took over.

As bad as the Redskins were this season, I believe that the players listed above are a very talented core of players that a championship team could be built around. I also believe that the right GM and coaching staff could have this team contending pretty quickly.

The big question is will Snyder hire the right people to get it done.

 

[Elephant]

I'd like to see this, too. But, who in his right mind would come to work for The Danny?

It's the reason MS is dictator-in-chief. The demands for employment were astounding.

I think a young front office man who is looking to branch out on his own would be the ideal candidate. And I don't think Dan Snyder needs to be completely hands off. He just needs to understand the delicate balance of letting the people who know what they're doing...do it. And only intervening when it is necessary.

Kraft in New England, Busciotti in Baltimore and Bowlen in Denver seem to understand that balance. A hungry young exec would likely be willing...it's the challenge of doing something no one has been able to do with Snyder except Gibbs, who got blood from turnips.

Eric DeCosta in Baltimore: Though he may be content staying in Baltimore until Ozzie is done.
Scot McCloughan in Seattle: A name that keeps wringing out in the league. From what I have been reading, he is largely responsible for the quick turnaround in Seattle.


Those are 2 names I would consider. But wtf do I know. I am just a fan on a message board.

And GSF, Orakpo was on the team when Shanahan arrived. We had some talent on that team, just not at the skill positions. Now we have talent at the skill positions while all the other positions lack that talent. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree. I equate success to what I see on the field and the product being fielded has the same record percentage over 4 years that Zorn had in 2.

 

[fansince62]

El: when Shanahan took over we had one of the oldest rosters in the league. A complete turnover was required. we had a horrendous locker room. we had NO offense - you may have forgotten, but I haven't - the offense simply could not score. all we ever saw was Campbell or the next victim, drop back, get pummeled, fumble/sack/int. we had NO receivers worth a crap. the o-line was horrendous. it was simply the worst offense in creation. Vinny made matters worse with one pathetic, stupidly conceived draft after the next. then all these dumb arse FA signings. the defense wasn't really any better. it had some statistically interesting seasons now and then - but what I remember is a "bend but not break" defense that tended to ignore the break part part of the equation. as now, those defenses routinely surrendered first downs on third and long; their singular strength was stopping the run (in stretches); they sucked at pass defense (just as they do now); we all griped about a weak pass rush. the only thing marginally better than now was special teams - and those didn't really stand-out either other than they didn't routinely lose games.

sorry, but I remember just how awful those teams truly were. I remember getting drubbed even worse than what has happened this season. point being - these problems ALL existed before Shanahan arrived. I'm not a big Shanahan fan. but you know what? I think the real, unspoken problem lies with the players themselves. I think that is the unwritten story. not only lack of talent. I think, somehow, they are quitters. I think they can't play as a team. I think they have performed well below capability. I think these overpaid sons of ****** have been scamming all of us. they have gotten a free pass for the most part. well F them. they are the ones committing stupid penalties, dropping balls, not knowing the plays, not tracking the clock, moving out of their assigned lanes. I think they are getting coached and they aren't doing what they are coached to do. these fat cats aren't even doing their jobs - the team doesn't stand a chance from the git go cuz these people won't execute their dang responsibilities correctly. this is one of the untold stories the media ignores.

what is the vision?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

fansince, when shannahan took over we had an aging but top 10 defence, with a bottom 10 offence. now we have an offence that is middle of the pack and an epic bad defence. the net result of all his moves and an almost complete turnover of the roster, has equated to a 3 win season. end result, we are worse off now than when he took over.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

and we have no first round draft pick

 

[tshile]

It blows me away that we watched the same games and that you think our O line is great and that RG3 is the problem. It's obvious that Griffin was not the guy we saw in year one but the fact that he was fresh off a total knee rebuild obviously was a huge factor in that. You guys act like the injury never happened. Most if us would still be hopping around on crutches and he's out there running an NFL offense for God's sake. And as far from the 2012 RG3 as he looked, he still put up stats that would make him the best QB we've had in awhile. RG3 is not the problem. And the only reason Cousins hasn't taken the same beating is because Kyle has had him rolling out on damn near every passing play. Our O line is Limburger cheese BAD. And other than Garçon and Almo (and Reed if he can ever stay on the field) we have zero weapons.

Grading, players, and coaches show griffin being a big part of sacks based on his lack of pocket presence and how quickly he pulled the ball down and ran with it.

Cousins has been sacked once in two games. I know it's Dallas and Atlanta but still... Once...

And I don't give him a pass for this season. He's the one that wanted to be out there and put subtle (or were they?) comments out there about how he should be starting week one because he held up his end of the bargain and hoped people wouldn't go back on their words.

He owns the fact that he was out there and the results that came with it.

 

[tshile]

Griffin played bad defenses too.

And cousins has a long way to go. But his pocket presence and ability to get the ball out is significantly better than griffin's.

 

[tshile]

Dallas got 3 sacks on griffin when they played, btw.

 

[tshile]

No one said anything about 'how good he is'

 

[tshile]

I'm also curious how you rank defenses because from what I see almost everyone we played this ranked among the worst in the league, very few were average or better in total yards, yards/game, points, and points/game
Many rank lowest in the league in sacks too

 

[GSF]

And GSF, Orakpo was on the team when Shanahan arrived. We had some talent on that team, just not at the skill positions. Now we have talent at the skill positions while all the other positions lack that talent. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree. I equate success to what I see on the field and the product being fielded has the same record percentage over 4 years that Zorn had in 2.

Well, I'd much rather be looking for lineman, linebackers, and safeties than QBs and receivers.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Well, I'd much rather be looking for lineman, linebackers, and safeties than QBs and receivers.

Not when Shanahan is running the FO.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Griff got slammed and beaten down by some of the best in the league. And he got back up and didnt quit.

And the worst too. The Giants sacked him 6 times and were in the bottom 5 in sacks before that game. Who wants to bet that Cousins gets sacked 6 times sunday?

RG3 got sacked 17 times in the last 3 games on about as many pass attempts as Cousins has with 1 single sack.

I think Shanahan finally figured out that if RG3 kept playing John Becks record for sacks in a single game was at risk.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Griffin played bad defenses too.

And cousins has a long way to go. But his pocket presence and ability to get the ball out is significantly better than griffin's.

For me, that's a given. Cousins came from a conventional system as a drop back QB, and had the entire off season to work with the starters with little to no option plays on his plate. It's the game he's been playing for many years. Griffin came from a option system, and had no time to acclimate to a style of play he has little to no playing time in.

 

[Elephant]

For me, that's a given. Cousins came from a conventional system as a drop back QB, and had the entire off season to work with the starters with little to no option plays on his plate. It's the game he's been playing for many years. Griffin came from a option system, and had no time to acclimate to a style of play he has little to no playing time in.

Which begs the question, why did we bring him back to start the season then?

 

[tshile]

And the worst too. The Giants sacked him 6 times and were in the bottom 5 in sacks before that game. Who wants to bet that Cousins gets sacked 6 times sunday?

RG3 got sacked 17 times in the last 3 games on about as many pass attempts as Cousins has with 1 single sack.

I think Shanahan finally figured out that if RG3 kept playing John Becks record for sacks in a single game was at risk.

It really sounds like he was regressing and forming bad habits.

Which is a shame.

I'd say the off-season should do wonders, but who knows who will be coaching this team... such dysfunction, it's depressing.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Regime change is going to suck. Sometimes, I wonder if the Redskins get their operational ideas off the back of a shampoo bottle.....wash...rinse...repeat.

Dan and Vinny spent the better part of 12 yrs trashing this roster and I think it was near impossible to expect Shanny to turn it on a dime,like a lot of Redskins fans apparently thought was possible. Add in the iron yoke that was hung on the franchise's neck in the cap penalty.....last year's NFC East Title was nothing short of a miracle.

So now we'll blow it up again. Who knows if the next regime thinks they can use Morris or Reed? Or if they think they have to gut the whole defense and spend the better part of another four years to rebuild....something this fan base has shown they clearly have no patience for.

Sometimes,the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence and all that is needed is a little landscaping( new DC,new ST coach). But we never consider that and just grab the kerosene and matches and burn it down.

Sometimes...I wish I just didn't care anymore.....

 

[fansince62]

fansince, when shannahan took over we had an aging but top 10 defence, with a bottom 10 offence. now we have an offence that is middle of the pack and an epic bad defence. the net result of all his moves and an almost complete turnover of the roster, has equated to a 3 win season. end result, we are worse off now than when he took over.

RY: those defenses SUCKED! let's not reconstruct history as part of the 3-4/4-3 debate. those clowns were decent at stopping the run....but I recall...year after year...an inability to prevent teams from marching up and down the field. they were all 19-24 points a game "good". but they didn't stop anyone. we all griped about the lack of pass rush and barely adequate pass defense. it's one thing to argue the current manpower doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme. it's quite another to manufacture "good" defense where it never existed. the stats were fools gold - those defenses were average at best when it counted. when it mattered...they sucked. recall the Pats game when we thought we had a "good" defense?

none...NONE...of those 4-3 defenses were dependable hold em to 10-14 point defenses against good offenses. they simply could not impose their will. ever.

 

[fansince62]

Regime change is going to suck. Sometimes, I wonder if the Redskins get their operational ideas off the back of a shampoo bottle.....wash...rinse...repeat.

Dan and Vinny spent the better part of 12 yrs trashing this roster and I think it was near impossible to expect Shanny to turn it on a dime,like a lot of Redskins fans apparently thought was possible. Add in the iron yoke that was hung on the franchise's neck in the cap penalty.....last year's NFC East Title was nothing short of a miracle.

So now we'll blow it up again. Who knows if the next regime thinks they can use Morris or Reed? Or if they think they have to gut the whole defense and spend the better part of another four years to rebuild....something this fan base has shown they clearly have no patience for.

Sometimes,the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence and all that is needed is a little landscaping( new DC,new ST coach). But we never consider that and just grab the kerosene and matches and burn it down.

Sometimes...I wish I just didn't care anymore.....

my problem, allied to what you're posting, is that there doesn't appear to be any vision/strategy in place. folks are missing the real point here: progress has been achieved. the issue is where do you go from this point forward? cleaning the closet may be emotionally satisfying, but absent a strategy it's just more samo, samo that will have predictable results. I can think of reasons for letting Shanahan go - most especially that his offensive theories viz ZBS and run game are no longer germane to how the NFL is set up. but I don't see anyone posting some thoughtful analysis on what direction philosophically and schematically we should head in. I doubt Snyder has an f-ing clue in that regard.

"blow it up" isn't a strategy.

 

[fansince62]

Which begs the question, why did we bring him back to start the season then?

because RG played his cards that way, Shanahan was compromised in the "it's your fault" story-line, and the media played up the valiant warrior theme. recall all the Petersen comparisons? the story was hyped from day 1 when it should have been kept behind closed doors with all parties following their roles.