Shanahan is Stealing the Money

[tshile]

I think Amerson is going to be awesome

 

[fansince62]

take a chill pill El!

brotha…you have to be joking about Zorn! he was doomed, and the process was hosed up beyond belief, before he even signed his contract! moving from QB coach to HC in the blink of an eyelash…are you kidding me? you must forget just how ludicrous that entire tenure turned out to be.

Shanahan inherited an ungodly mess. He has fixed some things. no one here is arguing that Shanahan has been a success. but in terms of the horse manure he had to deal with, he has turned a corner by making the roster younger, drafting its franchise QB (I know, you disagree on this one), getting the Dano to stand down. these are all positives. were a new coach brought in, Shanahan laid some of the crucial groundwork needed to make things better. for example, despite all the losing…this locker room has stayed together reasonably well…infinitely better than what we had to deal with in the past.

My frame of mind is that Shanahan has made a boatload of mistakes. but he also turned some crucial corners that have plagued this team for a long, long time. I don't care whether his personality is affable or not - his was exactly the kind of ego needed to make Snyder stand down. as for losing: there have been too many external factors to locate the blame entirely with Shanahan. I want to see how he does with a real o-line and a secondary worth a crap - they almost beat the Boys with the joke that is this secondary. the STs will be repopulated with cap money this off-season. things will get better (unless Robert implodes - or his friggin dad). how much? don't know.

you wanna chuck him! fine. we can reset the clock to zero and run through the same comedy yet again.

 

[Elephant]

Rookie CBs get toasted every now and again. I would like to see how he learns after a year or so before passing judgment that he will never be good for us.

I did not say he'd never be good for us. I see him as a solid #2, maybe. He's big and has potential, but I don't see him lining up one on one with Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones or even Dez Bryant at this point. We'll see. But that doesn't change my point either. We still need a #1 CB. I don't see Amerson filling that role next year.

 

[Elephant]

brotha…you have to be joking about Zorn! he was doomed, and the process was hosed up beyond belief, before he even signed his contract! moving from QB coach to HC in the blink of an eyelash…are you kidding me? you must forget just how ludicrous that entire tenure turned out to be.

Talking about organizational structure Al, we are not any better as you and others suggest. The argument is this organization is better off than when Zorn was here, not whether Shanahan is as bad at coaching as Zorn...although Shanahan real looks bad right now. In the 4th quarter with a 2 score lead, our defense stopped blitzing an injured Romo and rushed only 4 on every single passing down. Huh? What kind of coaching is that? The proof is in the product being fielded. Foundation being laid is your argument and I don't see it. Locker room togetherness? We have reports, that players think they don't have to play certain positions. We have players giving up on the field. I saw our beloved London Fletcher give up on a play right in front of me at the KC game! On the final play of his career in Washington, they call a soft zone with 6 DB's and take London Fletcher off the field! Why?

Shanahan inherited an ungodly mess. He has fixed some things. no one here is arguing that Shanahan has been a success. but in terms of the horse manure he had to deal with, he has turned a corner by making the roster younger, drafting its franchise QB (I know, you disagree on this one), getting the Dano to stand down. these are all positives. were a new coach brought in, Shanahan laid some of the crucial groundwork needed to make things better. for example, despite all the losing…this locker room has stayed together reasonably well…infinitely better than what we had to deal with in the past.

Shanahan inherited a mess? You cannot take shit and replace it with shit and think it's not shit! Locker room stayed together? That doesn't mean anything when the last 4 seasons have been a disaster. We had one good run last year for 7 games. Zorn had a good 8 game run to start his tenure here. I know Zorn is not a better coach than Shanahan, but I am still not convinced Shanahan is better than Cerrato at the VP of Football Operations. 5-11, 6-10, 10-6 and 3 and 12 is terrible! Terrible! I don't care what kind of hand you're dealt. I heard everyone jumping up and down for joy to start this season. I was lamb basted for suggesting we'd be 7-9. Now there is nothing but excuses...

My frame of mind is that Shanahan has made a boatload of mistakes. but he also turned some crucial corners that have plagued this team for a long, long time. I don't care whether his personality is affable or not - his was exactly the kind of ego needed to make Snyder stand down. as for losing: there have been too many external factors to locate the blame entirely with Shanahan. I want to see how he does with a real o-line and a secondary worth a crap - they almost beat the Boys with the joke that is this secondary. the STs will be repopulated with cap money this off-season. things will get better (unless Robert implodes - or his friggin dad). how much? don't know.

But Al, we hired a Super Bowl winning coach to come in here and do something no one has ever done. You really think Shanahan is going to address the OL properly? For ****sake, Tyler Polumbus! We had 2 shots at Eric Winston and both times we chose players like Josh Morgan and Fred Davis over spending that money on a RT who has played this scheme and is a FAR CRY better than Tyler Friggin Polumbus! Or even throwing the extra money at Aqib Talib instead of FRED DAVIS!

you wanna chuck him! fine. we can reset the clock to zero and run through the same comedy yet again.

I don't know what I want to do. Part of me is fine with letting Shanahan come back if he fires half his coaching staff. But what's the sense in that? If we are going to start over, which we need to do with or without Shanahan, why not just start over. Are there pieces in place for Shanahan or the next crew? Sure, you have a base...a solid QB and a solid RB. What else you got? This team needs a lot of players to turn things around...I would say at least a 40% turnaround...at least. I do not trust Mike Shanahan to do anything but what we've seen here and Denver after he took over there. Mediocrity at best.

The argument is for consistency...you want to be consistently mediocre? That's what we get with Mike Shanahan.

 

[Bulldog]

The NFL in the 2000s is comical. Teams that are 8-7 and 7-7-1 are still alive for a playoff berth.

Meanwhile in the era of parity the Redskins are set to go 3-13.

This team in the NFC of the 1980s would have been looking at 0-16 or 1-15.

Look at the point differential for the season. It's the worst since the merger.

Some of the scores: 20-38, 21-45, 10-45, 16-31, 6-27.

These games weren't close.

The two games against Philly ended up with close scores but began with 7-26 and 0-21 starts.

This team is historically bad on defense and special teams.

After 4 years these units are as bad or worse than they were in 2010.

That's the bottom line.

All of the rest of the media circus about personalities is white noise.

Nothing more.

 

[GSF]

El, I agree with a lot of your points regarding poor coaching and personnel management by MS, but I do not agree we are as bad off as we were at the end of the Zorn era.

I say that because I believe we do have an elite RB in Morris, a true #1 receiver in Garcon, and a franchise QB in RG3. I know RG3 looked nothing like a franchise QB this season, but I put that on MS for bringing him back too early, and not putting a decent line in front of him.

I do not believe a complete rebuild is needed at all. In fact, I think a good, modern coaching staff coupled with a strong GM could come in here and turn things around pretty quick. I'd much rather be looking for olineman, linebackers, and safeties in the offseason than a franchise QB and a number 1 receiver.

Put RG3 in the right system, give him a whole off-season with good coaching, and put a couple better blockers in front of him and I think year 3 could be a whole lot different than year 2 was for him. Especially considering he will also be coming back completely healthy.

I agree with you that MS did a terrible job this season, but I don't think the big picture is necessarily as bad as you say. It all depends on Snyder really and who he hires to run the team.

 

[GSF]

The NFL in the 2000s is comical. Teams that are 8-7 and 7-7-1 are still alive for a playoff berth.

Meanwhile in the era of parity the Redskins are set to go 3-13.

This team in the NFC of the 1980s would have been looking at 0-16 or 1-15.

Look at the point differential for the season. It's the worst since the merger.

Some of the scores: 20-38, 21-45, 10-45, 16-31, 6-27.

These games weren't close.

The two games against Philly ended up with close scores but began with 7-26 and 0-21 starts.

This team is historically bad on defense and special teams.

After 4 years these units are as bad or worse than they were in 2010.

That's the bottom line.

All of the rest of the media circus about personalities is white noise.

Nothing more.

All true, but we have MS and his staff to thank for that. This team was just horribly coached this year. I want to see what a legit, cutting edge coaching staff can do with RG3, Morris, and Garcon. I think holes at positions like RG, RT, and safety can be filled somewhat easily by a good GM.

 

[fansince62]

El: you didn't address any of the issues vis resources. You may not like it - but it is reality. we had short-comings across the board. take the receiver situation: as I recall, the year we signed two or three - we were cap short and therefore spent the next tier down to sign a greater number of receivers. one can argue talent evaluation short-comings credibly - but the patterns we have observed over time grew out of past mistakes and were perpetuated into the present to some degree by external forces. we don't know what Shanahan could have achieved because the team has been strapped so much.

Hazlett calls the defense….and I don't think it matters much what is called. the defense has too many weaknesses.

Zorn was a joke - way in over his head - and the entire tenure was an embarrassment….a use case in buffoonery from the top to the bottom of the organization. we don't have buffoonery now. we have a lack of talent.

start over with what? or, more specifically, whom? toward what end? I asked earlier - what is the vision? what is it Einstein said about insanity?

 

[McD5]

Oh there's plenty of buffoonery in that coaching staff. Enough for five teams.

3 different WR coaches in 4 years is one example.

Does MS just no longer know what a good coach looks like?

 

[SkinsFTW]

Put RG3 in the right system, give him a whole off-season with good coaching, and put a couple better blockers in front of him and I think year 3 could be a whole lot different than year 2 was for him. Especially considering he will also be coming back completely healthy.

They better bring one hell of a QB coach too.

I think a lot of RG3 fans will be in for a rude awakening next year. Cousins makes our OL look legit back there and he's not even a great QB. Put Rodgers behind our OL and he'd make Garcon, Hank, Robinson and Reed or any street WR we throw in there all Pro Bowlers.

I think Sham is to blame for not starting the year with Cousins and figuring out an offense that RG3 could run, because he obviously can't run the standard Shanahan offense as proven this year. Besides QB this offense seems to be pretty damned good, add a new RT and RG and we'd have a top OL. An OL isn't going to protect when the QB looks completely clueless behind it.

 

[GSF]

They better bring one hell of a QB coach too.

I think a lot of RG3 fans will be in for a rude awakening next year. Cousins makes our OL look legit back there and he's not even a great QB. Put Rodgers behind our OL and he'd make Garcon, Hank, Robinson and Reed or any street WR we throw in there all Pro Bowlers.

I think Sham is to blame for not starting the year with Cousins and figuring out an offense that RG3 could run, because he obviously can't run the standard Shanahan offense as proven this year. Besides QB this offense seems to be pretty damned good, add a new RT and RG and we'd have a top OL. An OL isn't going to protect when the QB looks completely clueless behind it.

This could be true, but I'm still holding out hope that RG3 has the ability to learn to read defenses and develop into a great QB based on what we saw him do in year 1.

I believe RG3 looked so clueless this season because he came back when he was not physically ready and he was woefully unprepared. I think his confidence was already shaky at the beginning just because of the injury, but then when he realized how unprepared and unprotected he was he unraveled.

I still think that RG3 could turn out to be fantastic, but he needs the right system, great coaching, and more time in the pocket.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

They better bring one hell of a QB coach too.

I think a lot of RG3 fans will be in for a rude awakening next year. Cousins makes our OL look legit back there and he's not even a great QB. Put Rodgers behind our OL and he'd make Garcon, Hank, Robinson and Reed or any street WR we throw in there all Pro Bowlers.

I think Sham is to blame for not starting the year with Cousins and figuring out an offense that RG3 could run, because he obviously can't run the standard Shanahan offense as proven this year. Besides QB this offense seems to be pretty damned good, add a new RT and RG and we'd have a top OL. An OL isn't going to protect when the QB looks completely clueless behind it.

We've seen RGIII read a defense, go through his progressions, and keep plays alive with his feet through improvisation. I believe he is able to do so on a regular basis, he just needs more reps.

 

[fansince62]

if you recall: RGIII played a media campaign from Day 1 to be the opening game QB. he was his own worst enemy.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Robert Griffin III Game Winning Touchdown to Terrance Williams vs. Oklahoma - YouTube

You just can't coach stuff like that...

 

[Boone]

They better bring one hell of a QB coach too.

I think a lot of RG3 fans will be in for a rude awakening next year. Cousins makes our OL look legit back there and he's not even a great QB. Put Rodgers behind our OL and he'd make Garcon, Hank, Robinson and Reed or any street WR we throw in there all Pro Bowlers.

I think Sham is to blame for not starting the year with Cousins and figuring out an offense that RG3 could run, because he obviously can't run the standard Shanahan offense as proven this year. Besides QB this offense seems to be pretty damned good, add a new RT and RG and we'd have a top OL. An OL isn't going to protect when the QB looks completely clueless behind it.

It blows me away that we watched the same games and that you think our O line is great and that RG3 is the problem. It's obvious that Griffin was not the guy we saw in year one but the fact that he was fresh off a total knee rebuild obviously was a huge factor in that. You guys act like the injury never happened. Most if us would still be hopping around on crutches and he's out there running an NFL offense for God's sake. And as far from the 2012 RG3 as he looked, he still put up stats that would make him the best QB we've had in awhile. RG3 is not the problem. And the only reason Cousins hasn't taken the same beating is because Kyle has had him rolling out on damn near every passing play. Our O line is Limburger cheese BAD. And other than Garçon and Almo (and Reed if he can ever stay on the field) we have zero weapons.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

if you recall: RGIII played a media campaign from Day 1 to be the opening game QB. he was his own worst enemy.

So did Derek Rose when he sat out a season for the Bulls. Don't take an athletic company's propaganda as the athlete's will.

 

[GSF]

if you recall: RGIII played a media campaign from Day 1 to be the opening game QB. he was his own worst enemy.

Of course he did, as any player would, but it shouldn't have been up to him. MS should have known better. It was a huge mistake on MS's part. Clearly MS now sees the mistake or he wouldn't be shutting RG3 down now.

 

[Bulldog]

If you want to be in charge, act like it.

Over the summer a coach like Parcells would have said RGIII will start the opener if I think he is ready at that point physically and in terms of prep to win games.

Shanahan instead let Griffin set the expectations for 2013 with all of the media campaigns and promos.

Also over the summer he let Smith go to the Steelers and brought in a ST coach without the bona fides in Keith Burns.

Mike needed to take some responsibility for all of this.

16 weeks of 'we are going to look at the film' to get better has become a joke tag line for standing pat with what is NOT working.

 

[Chris]

Shanahan deserves most, if not all, of the criticism he's getting.

Danny Smith leaving is not among the valid complaints.

 

[Elephant]

El, I agree with a lot of your points regarding poor coaching and personnel management by MS, but I do not agree we are as bad off as we were at the end of the Zorn era.

I say that because I believe we do have an elite RB in Morris, a true #1 receiver in Garcon, and a franchise QB in RG3. I know RG3 looked nothing like a franchise QB this season, but I put that on MS for bringing him back too early, and not putting a decent line in front of him.

I do not believe a complete rebuild is needed at all. In fact, I think a good, modern coaching staff coupled with a strong GM could come in here and turn things around pretty quick. I'd much rather be looking for olineman, linebackers, and safeties in the offseason than a franchise QB and a number 1 receiver.

From the very start of Shanahan's tenure, we didn't need a complete overhaul on both sides of the ball. While there were some aging players on defense, it was solid enough to suffice while the offense needed rebuilt. Instead, Shanahan decided to rebuild the defense and add Donovan McNabb, Larry Johnson and Willie Parker to make our offense better weakening our defense with a new scheme that didn't fit our players. Didn't work out very well. Shanahan put us in a hole his 1st 2 seasons.

And I don't think we need 100% turnover now, but we are in need a vast tunrover on this roster. I would say at least 50% of our starters need replaced. And I don't trust Shanahan the VP to get Shanahan the coach those players he needs.

El: you didn't address any of the issues vis resources. You may not like it - but it is reality. we had short-comings across the board. take the receiver situation: as I recall, the year we signed two or three - we were cap short and therefore spent the next tier down to sign a greater number of receivers. one can argue talent evaluation short-comings credibly - but the patterns we have observed over time grew out of past mistakes and were perpetuated into the present to some degree by external forces. we don't know what Shanahan could have achieved because the team has been strapped so much.

I did address some of the resource allocation Al. I specifically said we lost 2 players that could have been signed...with the penalty in place...that were not because we signed Josh morgan and Fred Davis. We could have done just as well with some of the rookies that were chosen in the draft those 2 years that we missed out on. Josh Gordon! We do know what Shanahan could have achieved...many more poor choices! he hit on a couple of running backs, a couple of QB's...what else has he hit on in the draft outside of the 1st round? When we were strapped for cash, you don't go after multiple receivers when there are other areas of need. I mentioned that. We could have had Eric Winston instead of Josh Morgan and we would not be seeing Tyler Polumbus looking like a ****ing turnstile. If we had not re-signed Fred Davis, we may have had Aqib Talib manning one of the Corners. That is poor resource allocation! I addressed it.

I will concede that cap hit us, but I have to mention the poor spending with the money we did have because that is the same group of people who would/will be spending with money to spend. What makes you think they'd make good decisions with more money?

Hazlett calls the defense….and I don't think it matters much what is called. the defense has too many weaknesses.

Al, for 3 quarters, our poorly manned defense was man-handling the Cowboys with blitzes from all over the field. In the 4th quarter with a lead, they decide to rush 4 on every single passing down. Go back and look at the tape. I know I am repeating myself here, but every single passing down in the 4th quarter we sent 4 men when the blitz packages were working so well for 3 quarters. And can you tell me why....why in the hell do you call a soft zone with 6 DB's on the final play of London Fletcher's career in Washington with a chance to win the game with our leader on the sideline? Why was Fletcher on the sideline? That series of playcalling by Haslett is as poor as anything Zorn did, except the Standing Gate.

Zorn was a joke - way in over his head - and the entire tenure was an embarrassment….a use case in buffoonery from the top to the bottom of the organization. we don't have buffoonery now. we have a lack of talent.

And who has been in charge of putting that talent in place. Again, we're not talking about coaching as much as we are VP of Football Operations Al. With the limited resources over the past 2 years he made terrible choices. In the 1st 2 years here he made terrible choices. Spinkled in there have been a few good ones. Not enough to field anything but the debacle we have. The organization was 12-20 with Zorn as head coach...that's a .380 winning percentage. We are 24-39 under Shanahan... that's .381. How is that much better? Because we have a few pieces in place to build around? Wish in one hand and shit in the other...tell me what you got.

start over with what? or, more specifically, whom? toward what end? I asked earlier - what is the vision? what is it Einstein said about insanity?

That's just it Al, retread coaches and college coaches being hired by the owner is the problem. I have been screaming this for the last month...we need Dan Snyder to hire a GM and let the GM build the team. I have a few names in mind, but to be honest, I am not qualified to make the decision...unfortunately, I do not believe Dan Snyder is either. So let's keep the unproven talent evaluator...or more appropriately the underproven...Mike Shanahan, give him a full deck of cards and let him make the same poor decisions he's made to get us here.

Einstein's little insanity definition...let's keep letting Mike Shanahan acquire players knowing that over 4 years bhe's been less than 50/50 with the talent he's brought here and pretty poor with his tenure in Denver as the GM. Talk about repeating the same thing over and over again...