Random Commanders Thoughts

[Boone]

Or someone listens to our pod

 

[burgold]

No news. It’s probably something to talk about after Payne’s new deal. I assume that most think that it’s ultimately going to come down to Young OR Sweat soon.

They were talking about trading Chase for a fourth rounder. Didn't hear the entire rant.

They probably do, Boone.

 

[Boone]

 

[Boone]

 

[Bulldog]

It's going to be an uncomfortable year for Chase Young and the Commanders.

Not picking up the option means he in all likelihood is not going to be with the team long-term and the signing of Daron Payne to a $90M deal almost casts that in cement.

At the same time, with a chip on his shoulder, Chase balling out in 2023 and making the pro bowl would have national media howling over how Washington let a #2 overall pick slip through it's hands.

 

[burgold]

I think you are probably right but almost everyone thought Payne was gone and the bridges with him were burnt when we didn’t pick up his fifth year.

Side note: Still not sure we handled that right. Keeping Payne might not have been the way to go.

 

[Bulldog]

Agreed, Payne was not the same player the previous year plus that he was in 2022. Anytime you see a player that 'turns it on' at contract time but doesn't produce at that consistent level over time makes a lucrative deal a crap shoot, at least to those of us on the outside.

The coaches and front office see this player every day and have to judge his personality, temperament, and work ethic in making the call to make the commitment going out 'X' number of years.

The memory of Dana Stubblefield is still there. Stubblefield posted 15 sacks in 1997 in his contract year for San Francisco and was an all-pro and Washington signed him at age 28 thinking they had just signed the anchor for their defense going forward.

But San Francisco knew Stubblefield benefited from playing next to Hall of Famer Bryant Young and had not produced at quite that level in the past, so they let him go.

In the end we saw the money went to Stubblefield's head and he ended up with problems getting along with coaches and off the field issues with drugs.

I think we can see that Payne is not the 'bad apple' that Stubblefield turned out to be for us, but the productivity issue to me is still there until we see him post 9-10 sacks in 2023.

 

[MikefromOH]

Payne has been solid his entire team here.

Dana is not here nor is haynesworthless. Trying to always use the past as to why we won't do something with a player now never looks good.

 

[Bulldog]

Again, the productivity issue there is still there until we see the consistency. He is now one of the top paid DT's in the league.

Before they signed large contracts we saw Aaron Donald and our own Jonathan Allen play at a very high level, one that Payne had not reached until 2022.

I agree that Payne is not a slaggard that found a 'nut' in 2022 and got lucky. He works hard from indications.

My concern is that next year we see a player that gets 5-6 sacks and has a 'solid' to 'very good' season but are paying him as if he was a defensive MVP candidate.

 

[MikefromOH]

His productivity has always been solid.

 

[Bulldog]

Agreed, solid. But he has not been an 11.5 sack disruptor that he was in 2022. In my opinion he outplayed Allen this past year which we had not seen in previous seasons. I always thought he played in Jonathan's shadow and benefited from the offense's concentration on #93.

 

[Neophyte]

It's a limited sample size, BD, but I think Payne still benefits from playing next to Allen. When Allen got injured in the 2nd Qtr of the Cleveland game and went out for the rest of the season, Payne disappeared. He had over 6 quarters of football to prove he could dominate without Allen in the game and he didn't.

 

[MikefromOH]

Allen, young, and sweat were all out a period of time last season and he was easily doubled.

He's done an amazing job and is one of the premier run stoppers in the league. Is he Aaron Donald or JJ watt? No, but how many are?

 

[Chris]

Does Payne benefit from playing next to Allen? Sure.

Does Allen benefit from playing next to Payne? Sure.

 

[MikefromOH]

Everything but sacks is on par. I broke down tackles compared to others before and he is one of the best. I don't think DTs are expected to get many sacks. They tend to flush the QB out of the pocket and thats where the DEs get them

 

[Chris]

Individual sacks come and go. I have always thought that the combined sacks of the entire DL tell a better story. For his prior years, Payne was playing primarily with 2-gap responsibilities. That changed when Sam Mills was fired. It’s not magic.

 

[DieselPwr44]

With over 100 million plus in salary cap space next year,if Chase Young balls out and they want to keep him,they will.

Vinny would have already extended him. Call me crazy but I like that they haven't picked up the 5th year option and want him to prove it.
Be interesting to see if they spend a pick somewhere in the draft on an edge rusher to hedge their bet.

 

[Chris]

I thought it was funny when Rivera was asked it the team could afford to keep all 4 of the defensive lineman.

To paraphrase he said: yes, depending on the money.

Well, no shit, Sherlock.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

I thought it was funny when Rivera was asked it the team could afford to keep all 4 of the defensive lineman.

To paraphrase he said: yes, depending on the money.

Well, no shit, Sherlock.

Your expectations for a quality statement from Rivera seems unrealistic since it's coming from a coach who didn't know what games mattered most to make the paloffs.

 

[Chris]

I have no such expectations. I be where my feet are.