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Random Commanders Thoughts

I thought he might get another OC gig as some will chalk up his struggles in DC to lack of a legit QB (which is not a ridiculous belief). Raiders OC is Mike Lombardi so I guess Scott will be working under him? Is the plan to roll with Jarrett Stidham in 2023 or will they make a play or draft a guy?
 
Yeah, I’m a little surprised he took passing game coordinator position. Of course if they get Rodgers to pair back with Adams, the whole staff will probably look pretty good.
 
I think Scott Turner landing on his feet this quickly isn't necessarily a good thing. It just points to how coaches are recycled. Other than his family name, I think Turner hasn't shown any spectacular traits and yet he is chosen rather than giving someone knew an opportunity. Mind you, he accepted a downgraded position just like Joe Barry took a position as a linebackers coach after his first two stints as DC, but given how many aspirants are out there from the college, semi-pro, and NFL position coaching ranks it's a little sad that these guys keep landing so well. I suppose Joe Barry ultimately found vindication as DC with Green Bay, but really, after failing so spectacularly twice at your job who gets a third shot?
 
I think the counter to that is the belief amongst the coaching profession that 'success' and 'how good a coach is' is highly situational. We have seen it before where a coach or coordinator struggles in one setting but gets an opportunity elsewhere and looks like a different person. It does happen. How often, I really don't know. I was thinking about this when I heard the Turner news, but the reason why fans and the coaching fraternity view these things in almost opposite terms is due to our 'relationships'. For a fan, the relationship with a coach is enmeshed with success and winning. Without the latter, we quickly become hostile, even angry. Look at Jack Del Rio. A slow start by his defense and fans demonize him and want him run out of town on a rail. Get the defense going, the strength of the team in fact, and all of sudden Jack Del Rio is good to go in the eyes of fans. It's just how we are.

In the coaching community, you aren't wrong about the constant recycling. But I think its based on relationships as well - in the case of coaches they are long-time personal ones. The 'coaching tree' is a real thing. These guys come up through the ranks, they understand how fickle fans, GMs, and owners can be, how hard it is to consistently win in the NFL in an age of relative parity and the 'win now' imperative. They empathize with each other, identify with each other, and they know each other. Scott Turner may be one hell of a guy. We don't really know him. And I think coaches believe a stint in one location, even a long one, doesn't define anyone one way or the other. Maybe the truth and 'fair' is somewhere between the fan's 'fire the bum' and 'he's a good coach, it wasn't his fault in Washington'?

And look... while I get what you are saying the fact is that Turner got fired and now has to accept a demotion. I've worked with a lot of people over the years who were 'so so' or even 'not particularly good' at their jobs, some of them very well paid. Very rarely did any of them get summarily fired for it. The NFL is a brutal workplace with expectations that are always unrealistically high with only so many jobs. The coaching fraternity is tight and supports each other for that reason most of all, maybe deservedly so.
 
I think you’re right that it’s a relationship issue, but that each of us is considering most one side of that double edged sword.

I mean you can argue that Rivera’s entire coaching staff was chosen on the basis of loyalty/relationship and that keeping 90% of his Carolina staff was a mistake. Loyalty can be a good thing, a lazy thing, or a bad thing. I think in Rivera’s reconstruction it was mostly lazy and unimaginative with a few good rehired and a few bad ones.
 
I don't disagree on Rivera - although had we not had an owner selecting a first round QB, or if they had gotten lucky and had a Ryan Tannehill type free agency acquisition, the last 3 seasons might look different and our Scott Turner criticism might be much more muted. As they say, winning covers up a lot of issues. Here's the unique thing about the situation in DC though. On any other team, I believe Ron Rivera is job-interviewing right now. So he too would be paying a price for surrounding himself with lesser tier coaches he is 'comfortable with'. Only our ownership situation saved his chestnuts for at least one more year. The guy who opted to EXTEND Scott Turner last offseason is the one who should be updating his resume - if anyone imho.
 
I've been thinking about this burgold and I have reached the conclusion that it isn't much different than any other occupation in the world.

I'm in technical sales and have been now for almost 20 years. I just discovered that we have hired a guy as an Account Exec on the west coast that I have worked with before at 2 other companies. At each of those companies, he was let go for failing to meet his sales quota - the basic thing that all sales guys need to do. And I don't mean he failed for a quarter either. I mean he failed quarter after quarter after...well, you get the idea. Yet here he is at my current company, back in a position that I'm sure has an OTE of around $300K.

This is common in the sales world so not exclusive to the NFL coaching circle.

It is also proof of the old adage that "it's not what you know, it's who you know" because people are more likely to hire someone they are familiar with than someone they aren't. It is viewed as less risky. Again with the adage but "the devil you know", right?
 
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Armani Rogers had some really nice moments. Lucas fizzled. For some reason, I’m content with our tight end group. I feel like their underproduction had more to do with a porous line (had to keep them in to pass block) bad QBing, and injuries.
 
burgold said:
Armani Rogers had some really nice moments. Lucas fizzled. For some reason, I’m content with our tight end group. I feel like their underproduction had more to do with a porous line (had to keep them in to pass block) bad QBing, and injuries.
Click to expand...


you could also argue we didn't keep them in enough.. but the QB was under siege.. but your point is fair.

I think Logan Thomas is gone... We were sold a level of excitement about Cole Turner but it never actually came to fruition after the injury... I don't think TE is going to be 'set' at this point.. I think they make a move of some sort to bring in another player that can be considered on the 'starter' level.
 
Our TE group is weak. Teams that have TEs that actually impact the game have big, aggressive, physical ones who can do a lot more than make the occasional catch. Thomas isn't the same guy and still can't stay on the field for more than 3 games at a time. Armani Rogers is going to be a journeyman, not terrible but he's not a starting TE. And Turner is a project at best. And I didn't forget Bates, but no one could blame me if I did - because he barely showed up in 2022 in a year that, were he going to have a coming out party, we'd have seen it in 2022.
 
I agree that the TEs need to be upgraded. Gesicki is freakishly athletic and was under used this past year as the tweet pointed out. A lot of teams will be looking at upgrading the TE. I would love Gesicki, but I’m leery of how he would be used for the money they would have to pay him. I suspect he will get a good offer and I don’t think this team can sink that kind of money into the TE with the O Line and LB problems. Gesicki is not a blocker from what I remember. So you couldn’t even say he’d help in blocking. If he’s signing for a reasonable deal, then yeah, bring him in.

One of these days, we will look at these free agents and say it’s time to go for it. I’m ready for that day.
 
I think that’s a nice way of saying, “We don’t think he’s done enough.”

I love Chase’s fire and enthusiasm. I’d love for him to be our Bosa. I think Rivera isn’t seeing it.
 
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