Pierre Garçon: Welcome To DC!

[Henry]

Ok. Im not saying we should get rid or Garcon or anything silly like that. I'm simply saying if we are going to obsess over cost vs. production of our WRs, Josh Morgan shouldnt be at the top of the list. Thats all.

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[Elephant]

Whoaaaa. Hold on a second. We've already seen what he can do....both here, and previously at Indy. It's not like this is some rookie coming out of college, where we wonder if he can play in the pros. He's certainly proven he can do that.

So where does the problem lie?

Guess how many targets he had against Tampa Bay? Wait for it......wait.....1.

That's right. 1 target to our #1 receiver. And he caught it for a 20 yard gain.

Prior to that, he was injured. And prior to that? He caught 4 for 109 yards.

I can spot a bust a mile away. Notable busts that I identified in less than 24 hours of their singings: Zorn, Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and Cundiff leap to mind.

So are we going to run like a Gibbs 2' 1980's NFL offense, or are we going to throw the ball like a 2012 offense?

You've already seen what happens when we get him the ball. So let's get him the ball.

Let's check back in a few weeks. I believe your frustration is more with our coaching and his injury, instead of the player himself.

Yeah, he has shown he can be a pretty good #2. That's what we've seen with Reggie Wayne opposite him. Here...he's had one great play and that's it. He has not done anything else...injury or not!

McD5, from the beginning I believe you have placed entirely too much value on Pierre Garcon. An old Santana Moss who has clearly lost a step did the same thing yesterday that Garcon has done all season. The injury is part of the package and in 5 games Garcon has shown me he could end up being another one of those free agent moves that could end up haunting us. The injury is a big concern for me. They say it was a pain tolerance issue and he missed 2 games.

When it was reported that he and Griff had a good relationship forming, I was beginning to get excited. When he missed 2 games because of injury, I got concerned. When he was targeted in the Bucs game and was called for a pass interference, I was frustrated, but when he had another stupid penalty I started to think he is a head case. When he started dropping critical 3rd down conversions that hit him in the hands...that has me thinking he could end up being nothing more than a 50-60 reception guy if we're lucky.

best receiver we've had in 20 years? Ha! Santana Moss has been far greater than anything Garcon has done to date.

 

[Bulldog]

The injury to Garcon could have been mitigated by the emergence of Josh Morgan. Instead he failed to separate himself from Hankerson and the other receivers on the team. And the brain trust didn't think Moss, Hankerson et al were all that good given the rush to sign Garcon/Morgan, which only makes their lack of production all the more questionable.
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Garcon apparently is a guy that has to be 100% or close to it to be effective. He isn't Gary Clark in terms of pain tolerance.

Meanwhile, Josh Morgan looks like a #3 or #4 wide receiver, which is what he was in San Francisco.

That was a 2 year, $12M deal we didn't need to make.

 

[Henry]

Bulldog, I don't think you realize how much WRs make these days.

Larry Fitzgerald is costing $13.2 million against the cap this year.
Vincent Jackson, $13 million
Calvin Johnson, $11.5 million
Wes Welker, $9.5 million
Brandon Marshall, $9.5 million

Our top two highest paid WRs COMBINED don't even match the cap hit of the highest paid WRs in the league. We signed some middling players to middling contracts. I don't know why you keep acting like this is a Sign of The Apocalypse. If one of them doesn't work out it's not that big a deal.

And, of course, I don't think we can say either of them have busted. Garcon has been hurt and Morgan is playing like the middling WR he is. Would it be great if one of them miraculously became an amazing, top-tier player? Sure. But I don't think that's what we signed them to be, or what we expect. So I don't know why we should be disappointed if that doesn't happen.

 

[TomE]

Henry, you just make too much sense sometimes.

I think we all know that the Skins are not yet top tier in terms of all around talent, some just like to pick at scabs.

 

[tshile]

Well, he is supposedly playing with a lot of pain in his foot, which has to be distracting.

if you have an injury that prevents you from catching passes that hit you in the hands when no one else is around you then you shouldn't be on the field.

so either he's going on the field when he shouldn't and causing us to lose, or it has nothing to do with his injury.

we're not talking about him missing a step, we're not talking about ridiculous catches that he's not making. we're talking about hitting him in the hands while wide open and barely running.

 

[Elephant]

I wonder if Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald get this criticism when they drop balls.
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Probably not since they are the best of the best and do tremendous things on the field that earn them the status of elite receivers. Garcon is not elite. I hope one day he can be, but from what I have seen thus far, I am not counting on it.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Larry Fitz doesn't drop balls that are catchable, and doesn't drop many that are close to catchable. He had a streak of like 160 targets w/ catches or something like that.

 

[tshile]

He obviously drops balls. Everyone does.

Garcon has also been sitting behind Wayne for a while and needs his shot to step out on his own.
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...e-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/

Fitzgerald dropped 3 balls last year.
I think Garcon dropped 3 last game? It was at least 2.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Fitz is an example to use of the absurdity of how critical we are being. I know how good he is.

Remember how long it took Boldin to come in to his own after going to Baltimore? Same thing.
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One game? He had 7 for 110 in his first game as a Raven, 8 for 142 w/ 3TDs in his third.

 

[tshile]

Fitz is an example to use of the absurdity of how critical we are being. I know how good he is.

Remember how long it took Boldin to come in to his own after going to Baltimore? Same thing.
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I was just responding to your 'obviously drops balls' comment.

It's not so obvious he drops in one year what garcon drops in a game.

 

[Neophyte]

Yet hasnt even gotten 1000 yards and only 3 tds last year. Did tou see that as well? 887 and 7 tds are his great stats after eclipsing 1000 several times in Arizona.
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While part of me agrees with you, Mike, there is also a little voice in my head reminding me that no one will ever confuse Joe Flacco for Curt Warner. Just something to remember.

Of course, we might all do well to remember that while Griff has started very fast for a rookie QB, he is not in Manning's league yet. Not by a long shot.

 

[Dead Money]

Alt + 0231 = ç

Dude... Garcon is really gonna have to contribute a little more to the team before I'm willing to use alt codes for his name!

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Garçon should have scored a TD on one possession, but Griffin's pass was behind him. From John Keim's RGIII Report:

7. Sunday, Griffin was victimized by three drops (OK, Pierre Garcon’s was a strip). But Griffin still missed badly on some completions. Yes, completions. The four-yard pass to Garcon should have resulted in a touchdown, but he threw it to where Garcon was and not where he was going; Griffin’s feet were positioned for the ball to be thrown exactly where it was – behind Garcon. The result? A terrific catch in which Garcon reached back and somehow hauled it in. If the pass is in front of him at all then Garcon has an excellent chance of scoring a touchdown. At the worst, the Redskins would have faced second and goal at the 1-yard line. The Redskins had a bunch formation split wide. Joshua Morgan, running an inside route, had cleared out two defensive players to the inside. Santana Moss ran straight to the end zone, taking another defender and leaving Garcon wide open underneath. When the pass first hits his left arm, no defender is within four yards — and Garcon is at the 5. It’s the sort of play made for a guy with Garcon’s toughness: He would have had a chance to split two defensive backs to score. Instead it was second and goal from the 5 and they settled for a field goal (after Griffin’s injury).

 

[Om]

This is what happens when the team loses. No player can play, no personnel move justified.

If Griff doesn't get knocked out, and leads the Skins to victory in the 4th quarter, which is entirely possible, the team is 3-2, Grarçon is working his way back from injury and continuing to gel with RG3 and all is sunny and warm.

Instead? Not.

 

[Elephant]

This is what happens when the team loses. No player can play, no personnel move justified.

If Griff doesn't get knocked out, and leads the Skins to victory in the 4th quarter, which is entirely possible, the team is 3-2, Grarçon is working his way back from injury and continuing to gel with RG3 and all is sunny and warm.

Instead? Not.

Garcon is exhibiting some questionable behavior as well as poor play at critical times. The pass interference call against the Bucs was forgivable, the 15 yard penalty not long after was not, the dropped passes on 3rd down are not.

I questioned the signing to begin with, but refrained from outcry. He has been a #2 receiver his whole career with Reggie Wayne opposite him, so I was not as excited as others. So far, he is living up to expectations. He has done little to justify his signing. While I can give him some leeway for the injury, it still doesn't retract from the fact that his production has been minimal. We need more.

The fact is, we are losing. The coin flip went against us, therefore the questionable personelle moves, the questionable play calls and the questionable effort on the field by certain players is going to be a focus. We're fans of a message board who talk about our team...good, bad or indifferent.

I gotta say, I get tired when people seemingly vilify those who are critical of this team. We have dealt with a terrible organization for a long time whose track record is abysmal! When we see free agent signings that "seem" good at the time, it is within our right to question it in light of those acquisitions that have blown up in our face over the past...20 years. In fact, as fans who spend inordinate amounts of time following our team, I think we have the right to be critical.

So when we sign a big name like Pierre Garcon, there had better be a return on the investment. Give it time? 5 games in is not a window into what to expect? I never thought he had maturity issues, but his play on the field for us thus far has shown he does. Do we accept that in the hope that every 5 games he will give us 1 exciting TD? That doesn't sound like the greatest WR we've had since Art Monk to me. Am I overly critical? Maybe, but Pierre has yet to prove me wrong.

 

[Elephant]

was Garcon really a big name signing at the time? I remember Vincent Jackson being the big stud WR that everyone was after.

Pierre needs one full season in my opinion before I vilify or elect him President. I cant justify saying he is a stud or dud after 5 games on a team. and he's only played in a total of 1...just cant do it.

He was touted as one of the top WR free agents in the off-season. And really, I am not saying he is a dud at this point, just that I am concerned he is leaning in that direction to me. Is the injury and excuse? Well, I to be honest I don't know. So I will reserve final judgment. For now, I am greatly concerned.

 

[Henry]

That's fair Mike. And I think that should apply to all of our WRs.

 

[Om]

"Vilified?"

Hyyperbole much? No one's denying you your opinion, brother El. Mine just happens to be that in this this case you are jumping to a very premature judgement on Garçon. Man has played one healthy quarter on a new team with a ****ty offensive line and rookie QB who rarely has time to read, step and throw. Me, I'll wait until he's had a full season, maybe even two, before starting to chisel his Redskins biography in stone.

 

[Elephant]

"Vilified?"

Hyyperbole much? No one's denying you your opinion, brother El. Mine just happens to be that in this this case you are jumping to a very premature judgement on Garçon. Man has played one healthy quarter on a new team with a ****ty offensive line and rookie QB who rarely has time to read, step and throw. Me, I'll wait until he's had a full season, maybe even two, before starting to chisel his Redskins biography in stone.

Talk about hyperbole...