Official NASCAR Thread

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The onlt time NASCAR makes headlines on the news here is when Marcos 'does good', or there is a huge crash. Guess what the headline is today?

However, we do get the racing on TV here, but it's the commercial channels that feed off the headlines.
 
Here are some replays. In the second replay, watch the tire go into the stands - you can barely see it, but it happens so fast.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhb77lqRG4[/media]

Here is a view from the stands. Watch where the tire ends up.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXqi0AyEfOA[/media]

Some may say that this could be avoided by jumping out of the way or ducking down low and using the seats as protection. Uh, I can guarantee you that no one saw that tire coming at the stands in that area - no one. It was whirling toward them at 180 mph and you don't have time to react. It is very fortunate that no one was killed.

I've attended many races over the years and sit at least halfway up at each track. Now you know why.
 
The two fans who were critically injured have been upgraded. Great news.

Also, SilentThreat posted in a fb NASCAR group we're members of, that the lady that had the engine block land on her leg, said she'd be at the 500 even if she had to be in a wheelchair.

I love NASCAR fans.
 
Nascar better get it's act together. You can rationalize driver injuries to some degree as freedom of choice, but when fans are getting hurt - it will put the sport's viability at risk. It's unacceptable. Nascar may dodge a huge bullet this time - but they will be very lucky if no one dies as a result of the vehicle going into the stands. One of the 'critically injured' is a 14 year old, and there really could have been multiple deaths (and horrific deaths) with an engine block and front suspension going into fan seating areas. Maybe everyone recovers here. But those fans are going to rightfully sue the ever-loving-hell out of Nascar. And if there had been 14 deaths vs. 14 needing to go to the hospital, I'd argue that should put a stop to the sport. If Nascar can't provide for the safety of their fans, they shouldn't be allowed to operate.
 
It seems very easy to fix. Just do away with the chain-link fence, and replace it with some type of clear, bulletproof type of plastic.
 
I don't know how easy to fix it will be, but it looks like in this case the car either went through the barrier or over the top of it (or both). I think the challenge is, it's not just the material the fencing is made of, but how much force it can withstand when faced with tons of metal striking it upwards of 200 mph. The other issue for Nascar is that there appears to be a lot of variability in how race tracks are constructed. It took Dale Earnhardt's death for Nascar to look seriously and do something about driver safety. I wonder if it's going to take fan deaths to get them to do the same for fan safety? The comments I heard coming out of Nascar yesterday were way too casual for my tastes. People getting seriously injured or killed at an event you are responsible for? That's a pretty big deal.
 
I'm in Nascar country. I don't watch it though. Too bad I'm not a fan...my uncle was Quaker State's CEO for almost 10 years. He frequently offered to bring me to races but I never had any interest.
 
Boone said:
Nascar better get it's act together. You can rationalize driver injuries to some degree as freedom of choice, but when fans are getting hurt - it will put the sport's viability at risk. It's unacceptable. Nascar may dodge a huge bullet this time - but they will be very lucky if no one dies as a result of the vehicle going into the stands. One of the 'critically injured' is a 14 year old, and there really could have been multiple deaths (and horrific deaths) with an engine block and front suspension going into fan seating areas. Maybe everyone recovers here. But those fans are going to rightfully sue the ever-loving-hell out of Nascar. And if there had been 14 deaths vs. 14 needing to go to the hospital, I'd argue that should put a stop to the sport. If Nascar can't provide for the safety of their fans, they shouldn't be allowed to operate.
Click to expand...


IMO, there is simply no way to make 43 cars, going nearly 200 MPH, 100% safe. I fully grant that every effort -- and then some -- has to be made to get as close to 100% as humanly possible. But it won't ever be a completely safe sport, simply because it cannot be.

Also, and yes, honestly, I intend this question to be rhetorical, and just a bit "smartass-ish," but do you believe soccer should be banned worldwide? Who's had more fan deaths than they have?
 
Just to be clear, I'm talking about fan safety only. Drivers voluntarily accept risks - fans shouldn't have to. And on that front I totally disagree. They've already got barriers developed that can stop the vast majority of wreckage from reaching fans. They just need to improve that technology. There's no reason it can't be done, and honestly, they will have to do it.

And sorry, but the soccer analogy is somewhat off-base. You're talking about fan behavior. At some level I suppose owners of soccer stadiums are responsible for providing adequate security (just like they are in the NFL), but ultimately individuals are responsible and culpable for behavior-related risks. There's really no comparison, except that I would agree if soccer stadium owners demonstrated they could not provide adequate security for fans, they are responsible. Nascar leadership knows that cars could leave the racetrack at any time. It's not 'behavior', it's physics. They absolutely should be required to ensure fans cannot be injured. It could be as simple as not allowing seating below a certain level or distance from the track. Having fans right up against the track isn't a 'requirement' - it's a choice Nascar has made.
 
I'll also confess that if Nascar doesn't change, and fans want to continue to put themselves at risk by sitting trackside, I'm okay with that. It is America afterall. I'll also confess I posted in this thread to see what the reaction of you die-hard race fans would be :) #instigator
 
MikeSr619 said:
I just dont see how you can stop the freak accidents. An engine or tire coming loose from a car doing 200mph is going to go thru most barriers.

NASCAR has done what is needed for driver safety and the barriers protecting the fans is the best they xan get right now. I believe they do all they can to protect us.
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Click to expand...

It's going to go through most CURRENT barriers. That's the point Mike. Nascar better find a better barrier system. Let me throw out a hypothetical. You and your girl go to a Nascar race. A car comes through the barrier and kills her. Are you going to tell me Nascar's 'best they can' is satisfactory?

I don't think so.
 
Jut put up the bulletproof glass...seriously strong to make sure fans are protected. Ditto on the infield.

Air shows are the really scary events.
 
MikeSr619 said:
You have glare, scratches, just stuff that takes from the fan experience with that.

Its the sound, the smell, the wind when they drive by you're there for.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
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There's no doubt about that. And as long as the fans sitting down low know the risks they are taking, then I say let them do it.

If they value fan safety over the experience though, bulletproof glass would take care of a lot of it.
 
Boone said:
Just to be clear, I'm talking about fan safety only. Drivers voluntarily accept risks - fans shouldn't have to. And on that front I totally disagree. They've already got barriers developed that can stop the vast majority of wreckage from reaching fans. They just need to improve that technology. There's no reason it can't be done, and honestly, they will have to do it.
Click to expand...

I understand, and I agree with you. I believe they'll dissect the mechanisms of this crash, figure out what happened and why, and fix it. They have to. It's NOT optional.

But at the same time, unfortunately, there will be another situation at some point, where something happens that they haven't accounted for. And they'll have to undergo the same process again. Again, I just don't believe 100% safety is possible; though it should ALWAYS be the primary goal.

Boone said:
And sorry, but the soccer analogy is somewhat off-base. You're talking about fan behavior. At some level I suppose owners of soccer stadiums are responsible for providing adequate security (just like they are in the NFL), but ultimately individuals are responsible and culpable for behavior-related risks. There's really no comparison, except that I would agree if soccer stadium owners demonstrated they could not provide adequate security for fans, they are responsible. Nascar leadership knows that cars could leave the racetrack at any time. It's not 'behavior', it's physics. They absolutely should be required to ensure fans cannot be injured. It could be as simple as not allowing seating below a certain level or distance from the track. Having fans right up against the track isn't a 'requirement' - it's a choice Nascar has made.
Click to expand...

Again, I understand (and feel) your frustration. But I'd respectfully continue to disagree with the idea that you can make a sport like this 100% safe.

And the soccer analogy is a little more accurate than you may believe, IMO. Many of the deaths that have occurred at soccer matches have occurred because of over-crowding, not enough security, not enough medical personnel on-hand, and not opening gates to allow fans who are being crushed a place to go. Those are facility-operator failures. Yes, each individual fan is responsible for his/her conduct. (And I LIKE the NFL fan code, BTW.) But a kid against the fence can't be responsible for the drunk hooligans behind him. Facility security has to handle that.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to "excuse" NASCAR for yesterday's events. Nor am I trying to say it's "OK" because other sports have had more horrific tragedies. I fully agree with you that NASCAR, and the individual track owners need to do more to protect their fans. I just took some exception to the idea of "shutting down" NASCAR, even in your scenario. I hope and pray that this problem can be resolved as well as possible, before it comes to that.
 
If there had been multiple deaths in this accident, NASCAR would have been shut down, or forced to stop races until it 'addressed' fan safety in some major way. It's not about 'how I feel', it's about living in a country where you can't sponsor events and have people paying to attend get decapitated, burned, or crushed to death :)

I understand your point about 100% safety. But honestly, most NASCAR 'barriers' are glorified chain link fences. Raking in a gazillion dollars selling tickets next to the track, and then having fans get maimed and killed - that's not going to fly. It's not bubba and stanky down at the track on a Saturday night in 1968. It's a corporate-sponsored huge sport. And the lawsuits and outrage if NASCAR doesn't get a helluva lot closer to 99.9% are going to set records.

On the soccer analogy, I'm really not sure where you're going with that. Okay - I'll accept the analogy, and then say, yeah - if sports event ownership can't ensure the safety of their fans, they deserve to see their 'sport' shut down and suffer the legal consequences. Any fan who doesn't expect the organizers of their sport to do everything they can to ensure they can attend safely, honestly has their priorities out of whack.
 
MikeSr619 said:
You're under the impression they arent working on coming up with better and I just dont believe that. After Carl hit the fence and shredded it they worked on it...but nothing solid has most likely come out that works better.

Its a work in progress as far as I'm concerned.

And no, i wouldnt be satisfied. But even if she was in the best scenario possible I'd doubt it.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
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I'm not under any impression at all. I don't follow the sport and could give a rat's ass about it. But I can see what everyone else can see. And what I see is that NASCAR doesn't just allow fans to sit right up next to the track, they charge huge prices for the privilege of getting those seats. I'm guessing giving up some of those ticket profits and moving fans way back from the track would greatly reduce the risk of these kinds of incidents. Barriers are just one aspect (and btw, as I mentioned to Jugs - from what I can see, these high tech barriers NASCAR has spent so much time, effort, and expensive technology on, look a lot like chain link fencing to me).
 
The fan experience will not change - some minor adjustments along the way are to be expected. We've come a long way since Le Mans 1955 when 83 fans were killed and hundreds were injured.
 
I hope my seats at Richmond don't suffer. The Henrico Grandstand (backstretch) is only, maybe 20 rows there. And SilentThreat and I sit at the entrance to Turn 3, in the 3rd or 4th row. And the walkway between the grandstand and the track is about 8 feet wide (which you walk to get to the restrooms, etc.) You literally can walk along the wall during the race.

Boneheaded? Probably.

Awesome as hell? Absolutely.
 
Well, despite my comments, ultimately, I'm pretty close to being a Libertarian. Fans want to sit up close and take the risks associated with it, go for it.

As for NASCAR, they would be crazy not to address this. Not because they care about the fans, or because it's the right thing to do. But because they can't afford the class action suits that are going to come with these kinds of accidents.
 
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