Official Game Thread - Week 8 - Commanders @ Colts

[Theismann To HOF]

We scored 7 points in 55 minutes of that game.

We've scored 23 and 17 with Taylor. Thats 40 points in 2 games at an AVG of 20 against 2 teams in turmoil themselves. If we had an Avg of 20 PPG, we'd still be bottom 1/3rd of the league in points... 22nd in fact, so let's not act like the offense has somehow become unlocked. My argument all along is that there's more than just the QB when talking about an offense, and the last two games have looked very similar to the offense of the weeks before... disappearing for literal quarters on end.

Heinicke's arm limitations prevented that throw to Terry from being a walk in TD. Terry had 3 steps and had to slow down and make an absolutely amazing play to extend the game. The concerns with Taylor haven't changed. Indy also only scored 16 points... 16.

Heinicke made some plays when he needed to. He showed grit and he showed heart. Guys like to play with him because he's going to leave it 100% on the field... but he is who he is... and a lot of us love him for it... we can just call a spade a spade.

It would have been an average of 10 points per game with Wentz, if that. Both the Colts and Packers have good defenses. And Washington would also be 2 - 6 right now with Wentz.

Heinicke had to make sure not to throw the ball out the back of the end zone. That's why he didn't throw it farther. Plus, McLaurin had stopped running on the play and Heinicke didn't want to overthrow him.

 

[SilentThreat]

It would have been an average of 10 points per game with Wentz, if that. Both the Colts and Packers have good defenses. And Washington would also be 2 - 6 right now with Wentz.

Heinicke had to make sure not to throw the ball out the back of the end zone. That's why he didn't throw it farther. Plus, McLaurin had stopped running on the play and Heinicke didn't want to overthrow him.

first off you dont know that, again we're coming back to the stating of opinion as fact

second, Terry was pointing to the endzone wanting it out front. Terry is at the 4 yard line when he jumps.. Gilmore just inside the 5. He was literally 45 feet from the back of the endzone. Do yourself a favor and fast forward this highlight to 40 seconds and watch the view from behind the play, McLaurin has him smoked by 5+ yards and the ball is thrown when Terry is at the 15, meaning there's 25 yards between him and the back of the endzone... Heinicke doesn't need to short arm it, in fact he just needs to get it OVER the goal line and it's an untouched TD.

Here is where Terry has to slow down to adjust to the ball

3 yards later Gilmore has now recoverd with 15 yards between Terry and the back of the endzone

 

[Theismann To HOF]

first off you dont know that, again we're coming back to the stating of opinion as fact

second, Terry was pointing to the endzone wanting it out front. Terry is at the 4 yard line when he jumps.. Gilmore just inside the 5. He was literally 45 feet from the back of the endzone. Do yourself a favor and fast forward this highlight to 40 seconds and watch the view from behind the play, McLaurin has him smoked by 5+ yards and the ball is thrown when Terry is at the 15, meaning there's 25 yards between him and the back of the endzone... Heinicke doesn't need to short arm it, in fact he just needs to get it OVER the goal line and it's an untouched TD.



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Here is where Terry has to slow down to adjust to the ball

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3 yards later Gilmore has now recoverd with 15 yards between Terry and the back of the endzone

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I don't think anyone really believes that Washington would have won the last two games if Wentz was QB, except for maybe you. Wentz would have been sacked a minimum of 5 times by the Packers and Colts, Heinicke was under constant pressure in both games. In fact, most of know neither game would have been particularly close, especially the Packers game.

You want to criticize a clutch, game-winning throw? Whatever. Heinicke threw a 50/50 ball to his best player and gave him plenty of room to make the catch. Again, McLaurin was not at full speed and Heinicke didn't want to overthrow him. It was the correct throw by a QB and a WR who have excellent rapport with one another.

I don't think you want to ask McLaurin who he would rather have as the QB.

 

[MikefromOH]

Nobody has said we would have won with Wentz. We are just saying that doesn't make Heinicke "elite". That's all you.

You are also now switching your argument from "he had to not throw it out of the end zone" to accusing someone of criticizing a play when he isn't. He is, like all of us, calling you out on your nonsense. The 50/50 throw is fine if that is what it was..but, that's not your original argument.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Nobody has said we would have won with Wentz. We are just saying that doesn't make Heinicke "elite". That's all you.

You are also now switching your argument from "he had to not throw it out of the end zone" to accusing someone of criticizing a play when he isn't. He is, like all of us, calling you out on your nonsense. The 50/50 throw is fine if that is what it was..but, that's not your original argument.

No one throws around more accusations than you do. You are just super hostile.

 

[MikefromOH]

No one throws around more accusations than you do. You are just super hostile.

I know, I know. You're just trying to be honest and use facts while I'm just so mean to you.

Most people think I'm "hostile" when I call them out on their shit. I know you hate it...but, you'll be aight.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

I know, I know. You're just trying to be honest and use facts while I'm just so mean to you.

Most people think I'm "hostile" when I call them out on their shit. I know you hate it...but, you'll be aight.

So you can call out people on their shit, but I can't? Is that how it works?

 

[MikefromOH]

So you can call out people on their shit, but I can't? Is that how it works?

If you were capable of it and have it be true...go for it! All you've done since returning is go right back to what you were doing.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

If you were capable of it and have it be true...go for it! All you've done since returning is go right back to what you were doing.

You're abusive. I guess you get a longer leash for your bullshit. Whatever, I don't care.

 

[SilentThreat]

I don't think anyone really believes that Washington would have won the last two games if Wentz was QB. Wentz would have been sacked a minimum of 5 times by the Packers and Colts, Heinicke was under constant pressure in both games. In fact, most of know neither game would have been particularly close, especially the Packers game.

You want to criticize a clutch, game-winning throw? Whatever. Heinicke threw a 50/50 ball to his best player and gave him plenty of room to make the catch. It was the correct throw by a QB and a WR who have excellent rapport with one another.

I don't think you want to ask McLaurin who he would rather have as the QB.

Ok i agree, i dont know that Washington would have won with Wentz at QB. I never said we would have. The offense struggled with him also.

I'm not criticizing, I'm just continuing to point out a contrast to your point that Heinicke is more than he is. It was the right read, it was the right throw (though he had about 10 seconds to throw the ball and Wentz has the arm to hit Terry walking into the endzone... wouldnt have been sacked). He made as much of a throw as he could have and Terry made a clutch, game winning catch. Yes it was a 50/50 ball, but it didnt have to be. You have continually made this a Wentz vs Heinicke debate, even when most of us dont, we just continue the conversation when you take it there. My original post never mentioned who was better between Wentz or Heinicke, but more pointing out that offensively we produced very simliar results with both of them, breaking down the narrative of the idea that Heinicke unlocked some level of the offense.. when there was a clear cut instance where his limitations that we've all had our concerns with, almost cost us the game.

We won, I'm happy, happy as hell we pulled it off with Taylor at QB, but I'm also not going to not keep an objective observation, because it never ends well.

 

[Chris]

If he had any thoughts or opinions about the team other than Heinicke I doubt his posts would be much of a issue.

One trick ponies draw a curious and suspect agenda on a team message board.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Ok i agree, i dont know that Washington would have won with Wentz at QB. I never said we would have. The offense struggled with him also.

I'm not criticizing, I'm just continuing to point out a contrast to your point that Heinicke is more than he is. It was the right read, it was the right throw (though he had about 10 seconds to throw the ball and Wentz has the arm to hit Terry walking into the endzone... wouldnt have been sacked). He made as much of a throw as he could have and Terry made a clutch, game winning catch. Yes it was a 50/50 ball, but it didnt have to be. You have continually made this a Wentz vs Heinicke debate, even when most of us dont, we just continue the conversation when you take it there. My original post never mentioned who was better between Wentz or Heinicke, but more pointing out that offensively we produced very simliar results with both of them, breaking down the narrative of the idea that Heinicke unlocked some level of the offense.. when there was a clear cut instance where his limitations that we've all had our concerns with, almost cost us the game.

We won, I'm happy, happy as hell we pulled it off with Taylor at QB, but I'm also not going to not keep an objective observation, because it never ends well.

The offense has not produced similar results with both. That's my counter-point. The offense has been significantly better with Heinicke, because he doesn't constantly get sacked and Washington is not constantly in 3rd and long situations.

The point is that Wentz would never have been in a position to make that game-winning play to McLaurin in the first place. Wentz would never have been able to convert that 4th down play to Samuel earlier in the drive. That 4th down play would have been a sack or a desperation heave by Wentz.

Heinicke is a better athlete and a better QB. It's just that simple.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

If he had any thoughts or opinions about the team other than Heinicke I doubt his posts would be much of a issue.

One trick ponies draw a curious and suspect agenda on a team message board.

QB is the most important position. It's obvious to any objective fan that this team plays much better with Heinicke at QB.

Heinicke is actually good enough to lead this team to the playoffs and maybe even win a game or two in the playoffs. I'm excited about him.

 

[SilentThreat]

The offense has not produced similar results with both. That's my counter-point. The offense has been significantly better with Heinicke, because he doesn't constantly get sacked and Washington is not constantly in 3rd and long situations.

The point is that Wentz would never have been in a position to make that game-winning play to McLaurin in the first place. Wentz would never have been able to convert that 4th down play to Samuel earlier in the drive. That 4th down play would have been a sack or a desperation heave by Wentz.

Heinicke is a better athlete and a better QB. It's just that simple.

how has it been significantly better though? Because Taylor has scrambled for a handful of first downs? Washington averages 17.75 PPG on the season. With Heinicke, they've averaged 20 PPG. With Wentz it was 17. That's not 'significantly better' when you're still talking about 22nd in the league if 20 was the number. Had they scored 20 points vs Tenn, still a loss. Vs Dallas... LOSS. Vs Philly... LOSS. An average of 3 more points per game would not have changed the outcome of ANY game this season. What makes it worse is that Heinicke's INT for a TD on a really REALLY bad throw, washes out the difference.

To your post above, I hope he does lead us to the playoffs. I actually don't disagree with you. I think we have a schedule (the easiest in football) to still have a legit shot at a wild card, but I don't think we can do it averaging 20 PPG. Something has got to give, and Turner needs to use Taylor better. He needs to take advantage of his strengths better. I would say the same thing if it was Wentz, Howell, or anyone else under center. Turner has not been good enough at using anyone's strengths to be successful, he continues to force feed a player into an offensive scheme. I hope he does it.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

how has it been significantly better though? Because Taylor has scrambled for a handful of first downs? Washington averages 17.75 PPG on the season. With Heinicke, they've averaged 20 PPG. With Wentz it was 17. That's not 'significantly better' when you're still talking about 22nd in the league if 20 was the number. Had they scored 20 points vs Tenn, still a loss. Vs Dallas... LOSS. Vs Philly... LOSS. An average of 3 more points per game would not have changed the outcome of ANY game this season. What makes it worse is that Heinicke's INT for a TD on a really REALLY bad throw, washes out the difference.

To your post above, I hope he does lead us to the playoffs. I actually don't disagree with you. I think we have a schedule (the easiest in football) to still have a legit shot at a wild card, but I don't think we can do it averaging 20 PPG. Something has got to give, and Turner needs to use Taylor better. He needs to take advantage of his strengths better. I would say the same thing if it was Wentz, Howell, or anyone else under center. Turner has not been good enough at using anyone's strengths to be successful, he continues to force feed a player into an offensive scheme. I hope he does it.

How has it been significantly better? Washington is 4 - 4 right now. They would be 2 -6 right now if Wentz had played the last two games. At the end of the day, that is all that matters.

Heinicke was only sacked 1 or 2 times in both games, even though he was under constant pressure in both games. Wentz would have been sacked a minimum of 5 times in both games and he would have killed almost every offensive drive by himself with his sacks. In fact, Washington would not have scored more than 14 points against Green Bay if Wentz was QB. And that is being generous.

Almost every drive under Wentz his last 4 games has been 3 and out. That is so demoralizing for a team. Even when Heinicke doesn't score, he at least helps this team get a few first downs and keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes so they can rest. That also makes a big difference between winning or losing.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

how has it been significantly better though? Because Taylor has scrambled for a handful of first downs? Washington averages 17.75 PPG on the season. With Heinicke, they've averaged 20 PPG. With Wentz it was 17. That's not 'significantly better' when you're still talking about 22nd in the league if 20 was the number. Had they scored 20 points vs Tenn, still a loss. Vs Dallas... LOSS. Vs Philly... LOSS. An average of 3 more points per game would not have changed the outcome of ANY game this season. What makes it worse is that Heinicke's INT for a TD on a really REALLY bad throw, washes out the difference.

To your post above, I hope he does lead us to the playoffs. I actually don't disagree with you. I think we have a schedule (the easiest in football) to still have a legit shot at a wild card, but I don't think we can do it averaging 20 PPG. Something has got to give, and Turner needs to use Taylor better. He needs to take advantage of his strengths better. I would say the same thing if it was Wentz, Howell, or anyone else under center. Turner has not been good enough at using anyone's strengths to be successful, he continues to force feed a player into an offensive scheme. I hope he does it.

I will agree that I didn't like Turner's play-calling in the Colts game. I thought Washington just ran the ball too much in the first 3 quarters. Heinicke was successful in the second quarter throwing the ball and I think Turner should have passed a little more on first and second down.

 

[SilentThreat]

How has it been significantly better? Washington is 4 - 4 right now. They would be 2 -6 right now if Wentz had played the last two games. At the end of the day, that is all that matters.

Heinicke was only sacked 1 or 2 times in both games, even though he was under constant pressure in both games. Wentz would have been sacked a minimum of 5 times in both games and he would have killed almost every offensive drive by himself with his sacks. In fact, Washington would not have scored more than 14 points against Green Bay if Wentz was QB. And that is being generous.

Almost every drive under Wentz his last 4 games has been 3 and out. That is so demoralizing for a team. Even when Heinicke doesn't score, he at least helps this team get a few first downs and keeps the defense off the field for a few minutes so they can rest. That also makes a big difference between winning or losing.

You're speculating things into fact. We don't know if we would be 2 - 6 right now because there are too many factors. Does Wentz throw the pick 6? If not, then if all things are the same, Green Bay only scores 14 points... so whos to say we dont win?

At the end of the day, results are what matters, and the offensive production has been very consistent outside of week 1 vs Jacksonville, where the offense looked as dynamic as it has all season. 3 points per game is NOT significant when you're averaging less than 20. It's an arbitrary gain in PPG. Points win games, and if the offense can't score points, then none of it matters.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

You're speculating things into fact. We don't know if we would be 2 - 6 right now because there are too many factors. Does Wentz throw the pick 6? If not, then if all things are the same, Green Bay only scores 14 points... so whos to say we dont win?

At the end of the day, results are what matters, and the offensive production has been very consistent outside of week 1 vs Jacksonville, where the offense looked as dynamic as it has all season. 3 points per game is NOT significant when you're averaging less than 20. It's an arbitrary gain in PPG. Points win games, and if the offense can't score points, then none of it matters.

You're still missing the point. The margin of error with Wentz is so small because he is so egregiously bad. Heinicke was able to put up 23 points against a good Packers defense. Even Buffalo was only able to score 27 points against the Packers yesterday.

I don't think Wentz would have scored more than 10 points against Green Bay. He is just too sorry to put up more points than that against a team with a good pass rush. This has been proven time and time again.

I can only speculate that most people on Earth will die if the world gets hit by a giant asteroid. After all, it hasn't actually happened. However, it's pretty safe bet that I'm correct. Just like it's a pretty safe bet that Wentz would have been absolutely worthless against both the Packers and the Colts.

You must have total gift turnovers in order to win with Wentz....like the Chicago game. Or you play a team with zero pass rush and you might also have a chance, like against the Jaguars.

 

[SilentThreat]

You're still missing the point. The margin of error with Wentz is so small because he is so egregiously bad. Heinicke was able to put up 23 points against a good Packers defense. Even Buffalo was only able to score 27 points against the Packers yesterday.

I don't think Wentz would have scored 10 points against Green Bay. He is just too sorry to put up more points than that against a team with a good pass rush. This has been proven time and time again.

I can only speculate that most people on Earth will die if the world gets hit by a giant asteroid. After all, it hasn't actually happened. However, it's pretty safe bet that I'm correct. Just like it's a pretty safe bet that Wentz would have been absolutely worthless against both the Packers and the Colts.

You must have total gift turnovers in order to win with Wentz....like the Chicago game. Or you play a team with zero pass rush and you might also have a chance, like against the Jaguars.

look, you're missing the point. We won by 3 COMBINED points, that is the smallest margin of error you can have, and that's AFTER he handed 6 points to the defense.

Your last sentence is so incorrect it's not even funny. We've forced more turnovers in the last 2 games (3) where we had forced 5 TOTAL in 6 previous games, and that doesnt include MULTIPLE 4th down stops, which are also turnovers. Heinicke was gifted a muffed punt vs Green Bay that set us up with the ball at the GB 16 and it turned into a FG. This offense has had better opportunities over the last 2 weeks than they've had over the 4 weeks before it, outside of maybe the muffed punt against Chicago where Rivera and Co left Wentz in the game with a broken finger.


The other thing you're not talking about is that the defense held Green Bay to 21, and Indianapolis to 16. That allows a much easier day for the offense as a whole vs giving up 36 to Detroit, 24 to Philly, and 25 to Dallas. Again... An under-achieving offense even WITH Heinicke likely doesn't make a difference in those games. MAYBE we score more than 8 vs Philly, but very unlikely we break 20. Again, it's not Wentz vs Heinicke, or an argument that we can't win with Heinicke, it's the fact that THIS offense can't produce enough points to win consistently, despite having the players to do it.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

look, you're missing the point. We won by 3 COMBINED points, that is the smallest margin of error you can have, and that's AFTER he handed 6 points to the defense.

Your last sentence is so incorrect it's not even funny. We've forced more turnovers in the last 2 games (3) where we had forced 5 TOTAL in 6 previous games, and that doesnt include MULTIPLE 4th down stops, which are also turnovers. Heinicke was gifted a muffed punt vs Green Bay that set us up with the ball at the GB 16 and it turned into a FG. This offense has had better opportunities over the last 2 weeks than they've had over the 4 weeks before it, outside of maybe the muffed punt against Chicago where Rivera and Co left Wentz in the game with a broken finger.


The other thing you're not talking about is that the defense held Green Bay to 21, and Indianapolis to 16. That allows a much easier day for the offense as a whole vs giving up 36 to Detroit, 24 to Philly, and 25 to Dallas. Again... An under-achieving offense even WITH Heinicke likely doesn't make a difference in those games. MAYBE we score more than 8 vs Philly, but very unlikely we break 20. Again, it's not Wentz vs Heinicke, or an argument that we can't win with Heinicke, it's the fact that THIS offense can't produce enough points to win consistently, despite having the players to do it.

Yep, we won by a total of 3 points. And it would have been a 10 point loss to the Packers if Wentz played.

What you're not understanding is that one reason Detroit, Philly, and Dallas scored so many points is because of the constant 3 and outs by Wentz. It all works together. The defense is constantly on the field, therefore there is a greater chance of the defense giving up more big plays.

Nobody outside of you believes that Washington beats the Packers or Colts with Wentz as QB. It's that simple. In fact, the Packers game would have been at least a 10 point loss if Wentz was the QB. Not only would Wentz have been sacked at least 5 times, but he probably would have fumbled once or twice on top of that.

Eagles fans and Colts fans could have told you that way before we wasted $28 million on that train wreck of a QB. Wentz is so bad, I don't think he will still be in the NFL next year.

You have this obsession with blaming Turner's play-calling for everything, but most of the problem is Wentz.