Official Game Thread - Week 1 - Giants @ Commanders

WHOIS THE RB1 SAGA Continued

Stollen off Reddit, our pathetic embarrassment to the www & sports world official "unofficial" depth chart is simply arranged by seniority currently.

I am convinced our team website is the only one to add "unofficial" to the page link.

Watch the page magically be updated after the first snap on Sunday. Attaboy Quinn!

As to the order of reps in practice yesterday, it was the 345s deferring to the leader of the RB room and then the eager beaver getting in line behind him.


I refreshed that page so many times yesterday my F5 key is now blank.

We don't have a punter. Makes sense after last year.
 
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I’m still confused 🤣

The PFF guy said that Washington was 6th in the league in least amount of receptions over 20 yards allowed last year.

I missed that they said 20 plus. I recall deep plays but didn't hone on the 20 plus yards

I took a closer look. Looking at the number of plays they gave up for 20 plus yards they gave up tied for 19th-24th best in the league. Bad but not horrible,

But for 40 plus they were 5th best in the league.

As for PFF maybe its a specfic metric they computed. I don't know. I know PFF overall coverage grades ranked Washington last year as the 28th best. And Giants oddly are ranked as the 5th best coverage unit.
 
Sticking to the PFF theme, this is their ranking of the current secondaries in 2025, I post the Giants too since that's Sunday's game.

I disagree with their takes. But it brings home the sort of wildcards that exist with this unit albiet I suspect they turn out well for us.

24. New York Giants

The Giants' two highest-graded secondary players in 2024 were rookies: cornerback Andru Phillips and safety Tyler Nubin. To bolster a secondary that has struggled for several years, the team signed safety Jevon Holland and cornerback Paulson Adebo this offseason. If the young players continue to develop and the new additions maintain their strong play, this unit could emerge as a surprise in 2025.

28. Washington Commanders

The Commanders’ secondary was one of the NFL’s worst in 2024, yet the team still came within one win of a Super Bowl appearance. To address the unit, they added safety Will Harris and cornerback Jonathan Jones in free agency and selected cornerback Trey Amos in the second round of the draft. Rookie play is often volatile, and both veterans are coming off down years in PFF’s advanced coverage metrics. If Marshon Lattimore can return to form and Noah Igbinoghene replicates his tight coverage skills, Washington’s secondary could be a surprise unit in 2025.
 
There is a lot of talk about how great the Giants defense is gonna be. But no one is considering how we torched them last year and they haven’t really changed that much on defense. Even in the game first game where we won by a field goal, we were moving the ball at Will and just couldn’t finish in the red zone. The second game we were kneeling down at the 1 yard line to seal the game away. We were likely gonna get a touchdown if it had been more time left. In addition, the same defensive line from last year outside of Abdul Carter is now having to go up against one of the best left tackles in the league, and drafting a really good tackle in Connorly who shut down Abdul Carter in college. our offensive line is going to be much improved. And then add onto Jayden Daniels and the whole offense having a second year in the system with added weapons in Deebo Samuel? Come on. I still have PTSD but we have improved more than them across the board.
 
Agree. I think this D line is slept on some as to pass rush. I think it will be good. Von Miller, J. Martin, Luvu. And I like Kinlaw, Payne, Newton as to pass rush.

If they can get to Wilson, I think they pull off the win. If they don't, I'd put money on NY.

I think the media has the D line somewhat pegged wrong. I don't think pass rush will be a weakness. I also don't think they fixed their run defense.

I like the secondary and the pass rush. Don't love either but I do like it. It might take some games though to gel. I do think the run defense will suck again -- hopefully am wrong about that

Excited to see how this season plays out cause I've got a differing opinion (maybe). In that our run defense will be OK, not bad but not good either. Our pass rush will be a bit below average except for when we scheme it up and blitz.

Lots of situations where pass rush feels potent, down/distance/opponent work in our favor. And other times the corners need to do heavier lifting to give the pass rush more time to effect the QB.
 
There is a lot of talk about how great the Giants defense is gonna be. But no one is considering how we torched them last year and they haven’t really changed that much on defense. Even in the game first game where we won by a field goal, we were moving the ball at Will and just couldn’t finish in the red zone. The second game we were kneeling down at the 1 yard line to seal the game away. We were likely gonna get a touchdown if it had been more time left. In addition, the same defensive line from last year outside of Abdul Carter is now having to go up against one of the best left tackles in the league, and drafting a really good tackle in Connorly who shut down Abdul Carter in college. our offensive line is going to be much improved. And then add onto Jayden Daniels and the whole offense having a second year in the system with added weapons in Deebo Samuel? Come on. I still have PTSD but we have improved more than them across the board.

Depends on the spin of what happened.

A. Game 1. Hey imagine if those field goals were touchdowns. You can also argue their red zone defense was really good.

Or imagine if the Giants actually had a kicker in that game. And Naber caught that easy pass at the end of the game.

B. Game 2. Agree that the 5 point spread was misleading because we had the ball at the end and could have scored again. But that game didn't feel easy. If you recall T. Tracey looked like Walter Payton against this defense early on. But his fumble changed the game. Washington then built a lead. But maybe the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL last year, our defense, gave up 2 TDs in the 4th making that game feel tight for a stretch. But fortunately we kept that lead and the ball at the end.

I share much of your optimism about how better this team is. But is it in game 1? With Jayden not throwing a preseason pass. Terry and Noah likely on a pitch count. The O line needing time to gel, etc.
 
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Excited to see how this season plays out cause I've got a differing opinion (maybe). In that our run defense will be OK, not bad but not good either. Our pass rush will be a bit below average except for when we scheme it up and blitz.

Lots of situations where pass rush feels potent, down/distance/opponent work in our favor. And other times the corners need to do heavier lifting to give the pass rush more time to effect the QB.

Yeah definitely should be interesting.

Yeah am actually jazzed about 2 things that are somewhat below the radar or some don't agree with:

A. Pass rush. I am biased granted because I wanted Von before he got here but I think he has something left. I like what i've seen in the one camp day I went to as to Jacob Martin. And I think Newton, Kinlaw, Payne bring some pressure. And Luvu. And Armstrong has had a strong camp. I think pass rush ends up better than average.

B. Run game. I've not been a Brian Robinson guy. Him leaving is addition IMO by subtraction. I like Croskey-Merritt and Rodriguez. I think the run game ends up above average,

I am maybe a little less optimistic than some about the secondary because I just don't know about Lattimore. But I can see it working out. And yeah I don't see how they fixed their run defense. I get the big bodies are better narrative but these guys aren't known as run stoppers at this point in their careers so why should it be different here?
 
I take PFF with a grain of salt. But for what its worth I noticed their run defense grades for some players in the preseason parallel this team's cuts with one exception.

Hampton got a 29 rating which is horrendous. Ferrell and Holmes had bad grades, too. All gone.

Among those who survived, Goldman with a horrendous 29 rating and he had his share of snaps, too. Wise had a 41 but with only 7 snaps.
 
I think the Giants fans are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Isn't most of their preseason hype due to Dart? How will that hype carry over into week 1 if he's not starting?
 
I missed that they said 20 plus. I recall deep plays but didn't hone on the 20 plus yards

I took a closer look. Looking at the number of plays they gave up for 20 plus yards they gave up tied for 19th-24th best in the league. Bad but not horrible,

But for 40 plus they were 5th best in the league.

As for PFF maybe its a specfic metric they computed. I don't know. I know PFF overall coverage grades ranked Washington last year as the 28th best. And Giants oddly are ranked as the 5th best coverage unit.

They were specifically referencing receptions allowed of over 20 yards (of which they ranked 6th) not plays of over 20. The difference, I’m sure, is that it does not include running plays.
 
The Giants defensive line is full of talent, no doubt. But that talent can be overcome by scheme and by a QB like Daniels. He’s not a Stafford or a Goff type QB that doesn’t have to be specifically accounted for.
 
They were specifically referencing receptions allowed of over 20 yards (of which they ranked 6th) not plays of over 20. The difference, I’m sure, is that it does not include running plays.

The 20 plus plays I pulled were in the passing defense category not overall. But...

The thing with PFF is they aren't about raw numbers. They pride themselves on looking at name that category but by going beyond the standard stat. So I guess they liked this secondary on 20 plus yard plays for whatever reason.

The odd thing about it is PFF clearly didn't think much of the secondary overall, ranked them 28th in coverage. And they aren't buying the hype that this secondary has turned a corner, ranked them as the 28th best in the league for this season.

And even though some of us (me included) here are mocking the Giants secondary, they actually think their secondary is better than ours. So somehow they think this was and remains one of the worst secondaries in the NFL yet they like them apparently at preventing big plays.

Like most here, I take PFF with a grain of salt. Sometimes their stats are interesting. Sometimes they are confusing.
 
With Jayden not throwing a preseason pass. Terry and Noah likely on a pitch count. The O line needing time to gel, etc.

Jayden threw hundreds of passes throughout the summer. Is there really something magical about preseason games? I don’t get that concern.
 
I think the Giants fans are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Isn't most of their preseason hype due to Dart? How will that hype carry over into week 1 if he's not starting?

Literally everything worked right for them, that's the hype. Historically, teams that were THAT dominant in the preseason have been Super Bowl contenders, but it's only happened 7 times before. So the sample size is tiny. The lone team that wasn't good in the regular season, was last year, the 2024 Chicago Bears.
 
Jayden threw hundreds of passes throughout the summer. Is there really something magical about preseason games? I don’t get that concern.

Why even have preseason games at all if they are equally to throwing in camp -- against mind you typically no serious pass rush?

I hear you, We just disagree. To each their own. For me, I don't get the nonconcern. It's at a minimum a mystery as for whether actual game reps matter in the preseason. At a minimum its unusual for even those coaches who don't push it in the off season to have their QB not throw a single pass.

As to the importance of preseason reps in general. Some say heck yes, its important. Some say, its overrated. At best its a mystery. I don't think you know or I know. We can just go with our gut. My gut is it indeed helps to find a rythmn by having real game reps. Especially for QBs who need to build or rebuild their chemistry with their Wrs and see a live pass rush to get ready. That's just not my personal view that I am pulling from thin air but generated from hearing Qbs talk about it.

Jay Gruden pushed this to the limit as for not playing starters much in the preseason and was famous for losing game 1. It used to be a point of angst for many Redskins fans I'd converse with. We are back to that and it feels long forgotten which is cool. But my thought on this isn't some wild from Mars take on the preseason. It's a commonly debated point. So lol, i am sticking to it. :)


Andy Reid has always held the opinion that you can’t get better unless you get out on the field and play. That goes for both the practice field and preseason games.

What’s most important about playing in the preseason for Mahomes, beyond the ceremonial first hit? It serves as a gauge to make sure the work they’ve been putting in during training camp has been a success. If not, and things go awry, it’s back to the drawing board.

“It’s cool,” Mahomes said. “I like playing in the preseason, honestly. Getting in there, trying to make sure that we’re doing stuff the right way, and then getting out, trying to keep everybody healthy. And then playing the sport that I love. So I’m excited for the opportunity. Hopefully, we can hold off the rain a little bit and go out there and play a good football game against a good team.”


Why it's important to Patriots QB Tom Brady that he plays in preseason​

In short, because Brady said there's no substitute for game action in the preseason, as quarterbacks don't face a fully live pass rush in practice.

"You’re getting hit, so just the space awareness, guys around you, and ball security and things like that," he said. "For the last 30 practices, quarterbacks aren’t touched. [In a game,] just standing there in the pocket, holding the ball knowing that they’re coming to get the ball and knock it out of your hands, hitting the ground, those types of things and so forth are important.

"You just have to feel things out and the game is really the only place to get it because it’s regular speed. You don’t know what’s coming."


Why Bengals are changing preseason approach, giving Joe Burrow playing time​


Why are the Bengals changing their approach and giving their starters more action during the 2025 preseason? Here's what to know about Cincinnati's strategic shift.

Taylor explained he is hoping getting his players exposed earlier to "game atmosphere" will allow the Bengals to get off to a faster start during the 2025 NFL season.

"Going on the road like we are Week 1. We do have a road primetime game early in the season," Taylor told reporters Tuesday. "So, the lights are on, you're in a road environment. That's great… As much as we practice it and do it, it's not the same feel. So, I think just those 11 guys being in the huddle on both sides of the ball and all the communication that's got to occur. It's just a good opportunity for those guys to get some additional reps."

That's why the Bengals are experimenting with giving their top players more preseason reps, a decision that has been received positively by their best players.

"Yeah, I'm excited for the chance to get better," Burrow said about the preseason in late July. "Those are valuable reps that we haven't had in the past for good reason, but I think we're making the right decision this year, and I think that's going to benefit us in the long run."


Giants Starters Hoping For Preseason Reps To Knock Off The Rust​

 
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Yeah definitely should be interesting.

Yeah am actually jazzed about 2 things that are somewhat below the radar or some don't agree with:

A. Pass rush. I am biased granted because I wanted Von before he got here but I think he has something left. I like what i've seen in the one camp day I went to as to Jacob Martin. And I think Newton, Kinlaw, Payne bring some pressure. And Luvu. And Armstrong has had a strong camp. I think pass rush ends up better than average.

B. Run game. I've not been a Brian Robinson guy. Him leaving is addition IMO by subtraction. I like Croskey-Merritt and Rodriguez. I think the run game ends up above average,

I am maybe a little less optimistic than some about the secondary because I just don't know about Lattimore. But I can see it working out. And yeah I don't see how they fixed their run defense. I get the big bodies are better narrative but these guys aren't known as run stoppers at this point in their careers so why should it be different here?

Definitely. Lattimore and Amos vs our non-Terry/Noah outside WR's are a big story. They were good enough that our poor outside WR depth was called a "Code Red" situation by beatwriters. Or was the outside WR depth not just poor but actually awful and Lattimore/Amos just looked good because of that? We had a lone joint practice with New England, and they did well there. But we really don't have a barometer here to gauge the quality of the "how well they did".

I do buy Sainristil will be a little better, and Quan Martin is improved (how much is to be seen), I also buy that Will Harris is an upgrade over Jeremy Chinn. I'm a bit of an outlier here, but I thought he was readily replaceable. I buy that the outside corners will be better than last season, but the bar from last season is so low it would be difficult to even trip over it. So yeah, all-in-all I buy that the Secondary is much better. That doesn't make it elite though.



I'm also with you on the run game, except I think I'm more optimistic than you.


I'm unfortunately a little worried about the passing game. Long holdouts by skill position players often end in nagging injuries during the season as they're not quite football shape when the season starts. Noah Brown's knee injury is a problem. When he finally plays I'm sure he'll be on a play count. When that play count comes off? October? November? December? He messed up his knee, lucked out that surgery wasn't required, but his knee is still a problem and that likely means he's definitely not in football shape. He has an injury history, I worry that knee just makes it compound through the season and he's destined for more injuries this year.

I do like Deebo improving things, I think Ertz is solid, but the rest of the TE's need to take a step up as receiving options. I think Jayden Daniels and the run game will be good enough to return us to the playoffs. But I don't think this is the season he beats the Franchise Passing TD record of 31.
 
I'm unfortunately a little worried about the passing game. Long holdouts by skill position players often end in nagging injuries during the season as they're not quite football shape when the season starts. Noah Brown's knee injury is a problem. When he finally plays I'm sure he'll be on a play count. When that play count comes off? October? November? December? He messed up his knee, lucked out that surgery wasn't required, but his knee is still a problem and that likely means he's definitely not in football shape. He has an injury history, I worry that knee just makes it compound through the season and he's destined for more injuries this year.

I do like Deebo improving things, I think Ertz is solid, but the rest of the TE's need to take a step up as receiving options. I think Jayden Daniels and the run game will be good enough to return us to the playoffs. But I don't think this is the season he beats the Franchise Passing TD record of 31.

I am a bit concerned early in the season as to the WRs. Terry needs time to ramp up. So does Noah Brown. And Noah tends to get hurt. so unless Jaylin makes a transition to outside WR, the way this team is currently configured there is a good chance we can be seeing a lot of Luke McCaffrey. And heck you can argue Luke too is more of a natural slot WR versus Z.
 
KNoah's got a knee. My annual and eagerly awaited stats prediction post will reflect his injury prone ways. Lane's too.

Sorry to say but I fear Bourne would quickly surpass Luke in the pecking order if he signs here. We all knew Luke needed time but I am preparing for the worst.
 
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Why even have preseason games at all if they are equally to throwing in camp -- against mind you typically no serious pass rush?

I hear you, We just disagree. To each their own. For me, I don't get the nonconcern. It's at a minimum a mystery as for whether actual game reps matter in the preseason. At a minimum its unusual for even those coaches who don't push it in the off season to have their QB not throw a single pass.

As to the importance of preseason reps in general. Some say heck yes, its important. Some say, its overrated. At best its a mystery. I don't think you know or I know. We can just go with our gut. My gut is it indeed helps to find a rythmn by having real game reps. Especially for QBs who need to build or rebuild their chemistry with their Wrs and see a live pass rush to get ready. That's just not my personal view that I am pulling from thin air but generated from hearing Qbs talk about it.

Jay Gruden pushed this to the limit as for not playing starters much in the preseason and was famous for losing game 1. It used to be a point of angst for many Redskins fans I'd converse with. We are back to that and it feels long forgotten which is cool. But my thought on this isn't some wild from Mars take on the preseason. It's a commonly debated point. So lol, i am sticking to it. :)


Andy Reid has always held the opinion that you can’t get better unless you get out on the field and play. That goes for both the practice field and preseason games.

What’s most important about playing in the preseason for Mahomes, beyond the ceremonial first hit? It serves as a gauge to make sure the work they’ve been putting in during training camp has been a success. If not, and things go awry, it’s back to the drawing board.

“It’s cool,” Mahomes said. “I like playing in the preseason, honestly. Getting in there, trying to make sure that we’re doing stuff the right way, and then getting out, trying to keep everybody healthy. And then playing the sport that I love. So I’m excited for the opportunity. Hopefully, we can hold off the rain a little bit and go out there and play a good football game against a good team.”


Why it's important to Patriots QB Tom Brady that he plays in preseason​

In short, because Brady said there's no substitute for game action in the preseason, as quarterbacks don't face a fully live pass rush in practice.

"You’re getting hit, so just the space awareness, guys around you, and ball security and things like that," he said. "For the last 30 practices, quarterbacks aren’t touched. [In a game,] just standing there in the pocket, holding the ball knowing that they’re coming to get the ball and knock it out of your hands, hitting the ground, those types of things and so forth are important.

"You just have to feel things out and the game is really the only place to get it because it’s regular speed. You don’t know what’s coming."


Why Bengals are changing preseason approach, giving Joe Burrow playing time​


Why are the Bengals changing their approach and giving their starters more action during the 2025 preseason? Here's what to know about Cincinnati's strategic shift.

Taylor explained he is hoping getting his players exposed earlier to "game atmosphere" will allow the Bengals to get off to a faster start during the 2025 NFL season.

"Going on the road like we are Week 1. We do have a road primetime game early in the season," Taylor told reporters Tuesday. "So, the lights are on, you're in a road environment. That's great… As much as we practice it and do it, it's not the same feel. So, I think just those 11 guys being in the huddle on both sides of the ball and all the communication that's got to occur. It's just a good opportunity for those guys to get some additional reps."

That's why the Bengals are experimenting with giving their top players more preseason reps, a decision that has been received positively by their best players.

"Yeah, I'm excited for the chance to get better," Burrow said about the preseason in late July. "Those are valuable reps that we haven't had in the past for good reason, but I think we're making the right decision this year, and I think that's going to benefit us in the long run."


Giants Starters Hoping For Preseason Reps To Knock Off The Rust​



I think the questions you raised here and on the last pod are good questions and only time will tell if Quinn’s seeming approach of minimizing player preseason minutes is a good idea or a terrible one. I doubt any NFL coach would discount the idea that preseason experience wouldn’t benefit even star players. It is the risk of injury that is driving the hesitancy to put key players out there, not that the time is not meaningful. All those teams deciding to put more emphasis on preseason participation with starters may find it is a difference maker - or they may lose key players as a result and wish they hadn’t change their approach.

My comment was solely asking whether there is a special difference between preseason and non-preseason passing reps with Jayden? You mentioned a real pass rush and while I get that ‘live’ reps are different from practice ones, Jayden had plenty of live reps in joint practice sessions. I just am not sure a lack of preseason reps for him is going to make a big difference.
 
Preseasons have evolved over the years. Players, for the most part, stay in shape year-round nowadays so it's not like the old days where preseason was meant to get players in shape.

How many times have we seen star players lost for the season because they were injured in meaningless preseason games?

I always go back to 'how did Gibbs do it' and from what I remember he was full steam ahead in preseason. When injuries did happen, Gibbs always had a replacement in the wings plus add in the fact that Gibbs was better than most at coaching up players quickly. I'm not sure that Gibbs could keep this same approach with the salary cap though.

Playing preseason games IMO, is great until you suffer an injury so there has to be a balance somewhere between preparation for the season vs the risk of injury. Pretty much you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 

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