not impressed with the start of this "new regime"

[tshile]

Yes, Haslett staying is absolutely on Gruden. No way he comes here if he doesn't want him, but he's forced on him. You can dance around the terminology all you want, but if Gruden wanted him gone, he's gone.

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So Allen has no responsibility in the coaching staff? The guy that's suppose to have final say on everything?

I don't know what terminology I'm dancing around though. I'm asking who has responsibility - the guy that came out and said from day one he has total control, or someone else?

Because the last guy that said he had total control was blamed for everything that happened on this team.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

So Allen has no responsibility in the coaching staff? The guy that's suppose to have final say on everything?

I don't know what terminology I'm dancing around though. I'm asking who has responsibility - the guy that came out and said from day one he has total control, or someone else?

Because the last guy that said he had total control was blamed for everything that happened on this team.

Allen hired Gruden, so yes, Allen has say in the coaching staff.

Do you think Gruden would have accepted the job if he said no to Haslett, and Allen said go eff yourself, he's staying? Of course not. That decision was made by Gruden.

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[LoyalSkinsFan]

I'm kinda happy with the way things are going. In the past we would all tune in at the start of the free agent feeding frenzy like it was Christmas morning and we'd start opening up our presents. We'd find all sorts of amazing and new things in those packages, too!! Albert Haynesworth, Adam Archuleta, Josh Morgan, Deion Sanders, Jeremiah Trotter, Antwaan Randle El, Jeff George, Dana Stubblefield...and, of course, Bruce Smith. Everyone in the press would go crazy about how we were the off season champions and all that.....and then, like clockwork, we'd wind up at or near the bottom of the standings again - with nothing to show for it but a new hole in our lineup and a whole lot of dead money tied up for seasons to come.

For me, I'm finding this more "Chanukah" type of approach refreshing. Each day we get a few smaller, more reasonable gifts....and we keep them coming for a few days. Maybe not the flashy, headline grabbing pickups of years gone by, but necessary pieces to a largely chopped up and parsed together puzzle. Not sure if this influx will continue for a full eight days, but that's one oil lamp I'd personally like to see keep burning.

Thing is, it takes a full package to win in the NFL. Returning players, free agent adds, draft picks and, most importantly, good coaching and schemes.

The Redskins, FINALLY, seem to be following some sort of plan. We may not all be a party to what that plan is, but it does seem as if these moves are being made with thought behind them. I won't profess to be fully clear on why a pickup or two was made in particular, but I'm choosing to have faith in our management for now and to see how this all plays out - not just this week, but in the bigger picture. Give them a chance to put a package together and present it to us in it's entirety, not just in its infancy during this period of free agency madness.

It's gonna take some time here, folks. Even Gibbs needed a season and a half to get things figured out and on the right path. Let's give them the chance to get the team moving in that direction for now.

I'm very excited.

 

[tshile]

Allen hired Gruden, so yes, Allen has say in the coaching staff.

Do you think Gruden would have accepted the job if he said no to Haslett, and Allen said go eff yourself, he's staying? Of course not. That decision was made by Gruden.

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Allen having responsibility for Gruden makes sense, it's the rest of the staff I'm wondering about. That's all on Gruden?

No, I don't think he accepts the job if Allen says go **** yourself, come on...

I do think it's likely Gruden came into the interview and said something along the lines of:
You get me the best players you can and I'll do the best I can with them.
You help me figure out the defense and special teams, I'll worry about the offense.

That seems like a completely legitimate attitude for a first time head coach to have, that doesn't have a staff he's comfortable with to call upon, when he's coming to work for a GM he trusts.

I also think when a guy says he has total control and starts assembly his staff, he has total control and therefor total responsibility.

At no point do I recall Gruden saying he had total control of his staff, but I may have missed it.

By the way, that's kind of how this should all work. The GM should have an idea of what type of team he wants to build, and should find guys that fit that. Going out and getting a HC and saying 'here, you build the staff' doesn't seem like a very smart way to do it to me. Especially with a first time head coach with no prior staff connections that are his.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

He said something to the effect of "it remains to be seen who is staying from the staff," after it was leaked Haslett was maybe staying. As in, he was going to evaluate and retain who he wanted.

Ironically, the only member of the staff that felt forced onto Gruden was McVay, the OC. But I'm sure Gruden interviewed him to ensure he was who he wanted.

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[Lanky Livingston]

I guess I could see the scenario where Gruden said "I'll take care of offense, you hire a DC and ST coach." Just seems unlikely he wouldn't at least give a thumbs up/thumbs down, because he's got to work with these guys extremely closely.

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[CounterTrey]

Well that's fine, but I don't see where you have anything to back that up. Whereas I have Allen saying he was going to be making the decisions, and no one saying Gruden would be, unless I missed or forgot something?

When Shanahan went out the door everyone said everything was his fault because from day one eh said he had total control.

From day one of the Allen regime Allen has said he's the one with all the control. But Haslett saying is Gruden's decision?

And that also completely ignores the idea that Gruden has anything to do with free agent acquisitions.

It's a long established but unofficial truism that Head Coaches hire and fire their coaching staff. We read articles every year about coaches refusing to can staff and getting fired because of it and they almost all work under a GM/President with "final say". It's true on a general basis in College and certainly true in the NFL. When it doesn't go down like that coaches don't take jobs or the press gets wind of it and the roasting of Snyder and Co begins. Allen technically has final say but again you're kidding yourself if you think Gruden comes here and allows staff to be forced on him. Zorn was the exception to that rule and it was widely panned as a sign of his weakness and lack of experience. It's also a recipe for disaster because your career is at the mercy of guys you didn't and wouldn't necessarily pick to push your coaching agenda. Gruden is a totally different animal from Zorn from everything I've seen, no way he goes in with that hanging over his head.

 

[Bulldog]

Come on folks, if Haslett is given Seattle's talent the defense would be fine.

It all comes down to talent.

And no one has come forward to state to my knowledge that the Redskins had an over-abundance of talent on defense the past 2-3?years.

In fact I can remember people saying we had one of the worst secondaries in the NFC during previews for 2013.

So, this should not be a surprise to anyone.

 

[DieselPwr44]

You beat me to it Lanky.

"This is my BOOM stick!"

As long as he doesn't look at Robert and say "Gimme some sugar baby" we're good.

 

[CounterTrey]

Come on folks, if Haslett is given Seattle's talent the defense would be fine.

It all comes down to talent.

And no one has come forward to state to my knowledge that the Redskins had an over-abundance of talent on defense the past 2-3?years.

In fact I can remember people saying we had one of the worst secondaries in the NFC during previews for 2013.

So, this should not be a surprise to anyone.

If that were true then the rest of his resume would bear that out BT. Not buying it. True the talent was deficient but there are so many reasons why that is secondary in this argument that it can turn into a whole new thread. Switching to the 3-4 would be a great starting point for me. And I was not at all surprised by the D's performance both from a talent standpoint and from a coaching standpoint. I've been critical of him since he was hired (mistakenly IMO).

 

[tshile]

It's a long established but unofficial truism that Head Coaches hire and fire their coaching staff. We read articles every year about coaches refusing to can staff and getting fired because of it and they almost all work under a GM/President with "final say". It's true on a general basis in College and certainly true in the NFL. When it doesn't go down like that coaches don't take jobs or the press gets wind of it and the roasting of Snyder and Co begins. Allen technically has final say but again you're kidding yourself if you think Gruden comes here and allows staff to be forced on him. Zorn was the exception to that rule and it was widely panned as a sign of his weakness and lack of experience. It's also a recipe for disaster because your career is at the mercy of guys you didn't and wouldn't necessarily pick to push your coaching agenda. Gruden is a totally different animal from Zorn from everything I've seen, no way he goes in with that hanging over his head.

You're choosing the only other alternative to be that the staff was forced upon him, and therefore Gruden (and no other respectable HC) would have taken the job.

Unfortunately for your argument, that's not the only alternative. There's also the alternative of Gruden just not caring all that much about the DC and being much more interested in the offense and letting Allen put the rest of the puzzel together.

Gruden also doesn't seem super interested in having final say on FA and the Draft - he wasn't even at the combine the first few days I believe, nor the senior bowl? (I may just be thinking of the senior bowl.) So while there are plenty of coaches that would demand to have significant input, it's entirely possible Gruden just wants to coach the guys on his team and put all his effort into that - and let the GM worry about all the other stuff. Which, btw, is what I would hope would happen.

And while you and lanky seem to be focused on the fact that Gruden wouldn't come here if he wasn't allowed to pick his staff, I contend that maybe Allen wouldn't have hired a HC that demanded autonomous control like that.

In addition to that Haslett's still under contract. This organization is already paying a lot of money to staff to sit on their ass next year.

I just don't think the only two options are Gruden having his staff forced upon him or Gruden having full control over the decision.

Either way, I want to know who it is we blame if Haslett's defense sucks this year. I'd like to know before it happens. The Gruden hire is getting a lot of love around here, even from the people that have spent years telling us how much they hate Haslett. I'm just curious how they justify supporting Gruden if it was Gruden's decision to keep Haslett when most fans seem to hate Haslett.

Anyways. To me this is all on Allen. He sat in front of that podium and said he was in total control - that he was running the football side of the organization. I'll be laying the blame at his feet if there are failures.

 

[tshile]

Come on folks, if Haslett is given Seattle's talent the defense would be fine.

It all comes down to talent.

And no one has come forward to state to my knowledge that the Redskins had an over-abundance of talent on defense the past 2-3?years.

In fact I can remember people saying we had one of the worst secondaries in the NFC during previews for 2013.

So, this should not be a surprise to anyone.

I've actually been saying that... I wasn't really one of the people bashing Haslett for the past few years. I thought most of the talent acquisition went to the offense and Haslett was kind of give scraps to work with.

I also am one of the people that thinks the 2013 defense was severely hampered by a 2013 offense that was absolutely awful and couldn't ever stay on the field because we had a bum quarterback playing that wasn't ready.

 

[CounterTrey]

Still not buying it. That would require a fair amount of stupidity and laissez faire attitude about running the team. That's what Coordinators do, NOT HC. If he did do that it doesn't do anything to defeat the argument that this hire and the subsequent decisions since then have been decidedly "meh".

Like I said, I'll buy in when I see something. I feel like a Mizzou fan..."Show Me!"

 

[tshile]

Still not buying it. That would require a fair amount of stupidity and laissez faire attitude about running the team. That's what Coordinators do, NOT HC. If he did do that it doesn't do anything to defeat the argument that this hire and the subsequent decisions since then have been decidedly "meh".

Like I said, I'll buy in when I see something. I feel like a Mizzou fan..."Show Me!"

Letting the GM pick a direction and build the team would be a stupid attitude for running a team?

 

[tshile]

Well, I went doing some looking
Jay Gruden expected to retain Jim Haslett, Raheem Morris; Sean McVay will be offensive coordinator [updated]

General Manager Bruce Allen said at the time that the team’s new coach would determine the status of those coaches not immediately fired.

So I guess it's all on Gruden. The entire coaching staff, even those here when he got here, is on him.

It'll be interesting to see how that meshes with the Haslett haters. Hell, maybe it was all Shanahan's fault and we wont even need to worry about it.

 

[CounterTrey]

Telling a GM all you care about is the Offense, just find him players and do whatever they want with D would be stupid yes. The HC is supposed to have a handle on the ENTIRE team, it's why some guys like Norv never make the transition. I don't see Gruden that way at all so again the only way I see Haslett being here is if Gruden signs off on it. His brother is a former HC and he's been in the game himself quite sometime now. I just don't believe he'd act like someone who hasn't done anything more than be a position coach and has no clue what the responsibilities of a HC are.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Haslett and Gruden do have a past together, so its not like Gruden walked into the situation and Allen said "Here is your DC." I hope Allen and Snyder are able to back off and let Gruden make the decisions when it comes to coaching staff. Allen is a "General Manager." He over-sees everything and signs off on it.. Manages the general workings of the franchise from top to bottom. He isn't the sole person responsible for ANY decision, but the buck does stop there. Nothing happens without crossing his desk.... but I'm sure when it comes to coaching, what Gruden says, goes.

 

[CounterTrey]

Well, I went doing some looking
Jay Gruden expected to retain Jim Haslett, Raheem Morris; Sean McVay will be offensive coordinator [updated]


So I guess it's all on Gruden. The entire coaching staff, even those here when he got here, is on him.

Think about it though, it just doesn't make sense if you're going to be the Field General and the one who takes the fall if you lose the war to let some bureaucrat choose all your secondary commanders. The Pres may be the COMINCH but he's not telling Patreus et al who to put where on the battlefield and the General wouldn't allow it. Loose analogy I know but it works...sorta.

It'll be interesting to see how that meshes with the Haslett haters. Hell, maybe it was all Shanahan's fault and we wont even need to worry about it.

One can only hope.

 

[tshile]

Think about it though, it just doesn't make sense if you're going to be the Field General and the one who takes the fall if you lose the war to let some bureaucrat choose all your secondary commanders. The Pres may be the COMINCH but he's not telling Patreus et al who to put where on the battlefield and the General wouldn't allow it. Loose analogy I know but it works...sorta.



One can only hope.

As long as if haslett fails the calls are against Gruden, then I'm fine with that.

I don't want to hear a bunch of BS about how it was all the sudden Allen's fault, because Haslett was here before Gruden got here.

 

[tshile]

I just find it curious that all the coaches not fired by Allen are still here.

I also find it hard to believe that I'm the only person that finds that to be odd, but so be it.