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Not a good night

Loss Vegas

Elephant

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Point blank, the Philthies were simply better last night but I AM certain they don't put up 59 points had that first one been called. That was the domino effect at it's worst.
I agree. Complexion/Outcome = same thing to me. I am under no illusion that we would have won that game if they had called that hold and negated the TD. Who knows? They could have called the same play on the next down. Jackson had Hall beat and Vick made a great throw to him in stride and they could have tried it the very next down.
 

Boone

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Just throwing this out there, having had 24 hours to cool off a little.

Did we see a little bit of spark/fight/determination in the 2nd half? I'm going to argue we did..we actually, for a brief moment as we scored two quick 2nd half TDs like we might find a way to chip our way back into it - then the first half Eagles quickly reappeared and commenced utter domination again.

Still....as bad as it was, I do take some comfort that they did fight in the 2nd half. I know that's going to raise some ire, as it's pretty damning praise. But I didn't see the kind of 'give up' out there, despite the lopsided score, that I saw last year with Zorn coming down the stretch.

I gotta find something to be positive about.
 

SkinnedAussie

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It's getting to the point that I seriously question why I even bother to watch the games.
I have already decided that I'm no longer going to get out of bed at 4am, my time, for a 1pm game, nor will I get up early (7am) for a 4pm game. If I'm already up and about, so be it.

However, if we ever play SNF or MNF games again, we get them just on lunch time. I was in the chat room for the first 10 minutes, after spending the morning catching up on some gardening, but after those first 10 minutes, I decided that rather that waste my time on 'watching' a team that had clearly already given up, I'd put the time to better use and finish the mowing (saved me from finishing it today), and plant the rest of the palms we were given. That ended in a far better result for me.

I'm not totally giving up on the team though, and will still log in to see scores and check the boards, but that's about as far as I'm prepared to put in for the remainder of this year. Basically, I'm giving back the same as what the players appear to be putting in. I'm treating the final 7 games as part of the rebuilding, to determine who is worthy and who deserves to stay. It's time to ditch the prima donnas for someone who actually wants to play, and not just to get paid!
 

Yusuf06

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Does Haslett game plan? He looks lost out there. I know part of it is running a 3-4 without the right personnel, but c'mon why weren't we spying Vick? There were a number of times when he got outside the pocket he was free to roam. While he might have still beat a spy one-on-one he might have slowed him down or diverted him enough to allow some teammates to come to the rescue. Although they probably would have missed the tackle anyway.
I haven't re-watched the game partially due to time constraints and partially due to a desire to keep my meals down. However in thinking about it, I think Haslett and Shanny Jr. did a poor job of game planning. Haslett IMHO, did a poor job of preparing our pass rushers to play a mobile QB like Vick. During Gibbs 1.0 we always dominated R. Cunningham because our first priority wasn't sacking him, containing him was. With a guy with the quickness and speed Vick has, that concept is even more important because I don't think even spying him will work consistently. He's as quick as Landry and I think faster as well.

The really scary thing is Vick's newfound understanding of the passing game. I always said when he was here in the ATL that if he could get that under his belt he could be really, really deadly and it seems that's now the case. Probably the only thing holding him back now is his unwillingness to slide or use the sidelines to avoid contact and stay in the lineup. But, I digress.

On the other side of the ball I think we gave up on the run way too soon. Shanny Jr. is going to have to learn the value of the run, especially in the NFCE. Aside from its value in winning a game, it can also help you avoid the embarrassment of getting 50+ points hung on you in a game like Monday's, where it's obvious early on that you're simply not going to win. In such a case, you run the ball to keep the other offense off the field, give your defense time to regroup and figure out what the hell's going on and to keep the score, and hence the embarrassment down.
 

ntotoro

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Completely agree, Yusuf. One of my worst fears about Vick was "what if he learns the passing game."

Agree with your other points, too. We've done best against mobile QB's (even against McNabb) when the philosophy has been to contain rather than rush. It used to be we'd have one good stinker like that per year and accept it. I can't accept it any longer. The teams needs to show signs of progress. Everyone has injuries and turnover.

I think it's time to scuttle this Defense, though. I'd hate to say it need to be given up, but it will take far too long to get the proper personnel and I'm not convinced Haslett is capable of doing anything with it once he does.
 

Goaldeje

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Only thing I will argue Yusuf is that we don't need three straight runs to start the game. Aside from that, though, completely agree. I have been saying for weeks that we need to run the damn ball. A lot. Give some combination of Williams/Torain/Portis 40 carries for God's sake. We're not going to win in a shootout, so shorten the game.

And your comments about the NFCE being different from the AFC are also spot on. Maybe in Houston in the same division as Peyton Manning you could get away with that crap. But not in the NFCE. Run the damn ball already.
 

riggins44

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Boone, I saw the fight as well. Saw Fletcher and McNabb trying to rally the troops, which is something we haven't seen in awhile.

We still have guys playing for their game checks, but not as many as previous years. Some of these guys do seem to care.

It will be interesting to see how and who responds this week in TN. This will give us a good read on the team as a whole and which players are our core guys.

The biggest difference was Reid had their offense ready for Haslett's D.

Vick had one of those rare special moments, kind of like playing against a golfer that shoots a 59.

What goes around comes around. We hung 35 in 2nd quarter on Broncos in the Super Bowl, Monday night was our turn. Can't wait for Eagles turn.
 

Rymanofthenorth

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I hate to say it but the only way to stop this bleeding is to put a bounty on Vick. Late hit out of bounds or an intentional helmet-to-helmet may be the ONLY thing that will keep them from putting up 60. Was never a fan of naming Jim Haslett as DC, was even less of a fan of installing the 3-4 without 3-4 personnel and I'm hating it even more now.
Wade Phillips as DC is looking like less of a joke now than it did earlier in the week.

As for Kyle Shanahan, shame on him. After getting down, his play-calling looks like WE have the 35 point lead. Desparately trying not to call for heads or say anything overly stupid right now, even for me, but it's very hard. :(
jimbo, on the other forum that shall remain nameless there was a thread about bums kid getting fired, I posted that IF WE STAYED WITH THIS 3-4 IDEA, he would be a solid DC because he really does know the 3-4 inside and out, hes a great DC just a terrible HC., I got mocked for saying that.

the only thing that I credited Haslett for was getting players to buy in and motivate them, after watching that eagles debacle, he doesnt even do that consistently, his schemes are brutal and honestly once a team has film on you doing unsound things, in the NFL you are done.
 

Jimbo

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jimbo, on the other forum that shall remain nameless there was a thread about bums kid getting fired, I posted that IF WE STAYED WITH THIS 3-4 IDEA, he would be a solid DC because he really does know the 3-4 inside and out, hes a great DC just a terrible HC., I got mocked for saying that.

the only thing that I credited Haslett for was getting players to buy in and motivate them, after watching that eagles debacle, he doesnt even do that consistently, his schemes are brutal and honestly once a team has film on you doing unsound things, in the NFL you are done.
I'll be the first to agree Wade is a very good DC. The problem from the get-go is we don't have the personnel to play the 3-4 no matter WHO the DC is. Haslett has done a decent job at getting creative but I have doubts about his 3-4 ability. While Wade would make perfect sense, not to mention he'd get two shots a year at the Boys, Shanahan won't lower the boom on Haslett after one season. He'll get at least one more year to prove himself and get the pieces he needs to run the 3-4. My guess is Wade won't be available if or when Haslett fails.
 

Rymanofthenorth

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I think you are correct about Bums kid being taken by the time we pull the pin on haslett, I think tho that haslett will be the fall guy especially if this defence continues to tank.

as Ive said ad nauseum, we never had the talent for a 3-4 not even remotely and unless Haslett stands up to Shannahan and refuses to run the 3-4 to save shannys pride I can see this team ending the year with one of the worst defences ever.

even with one more season we wont get the "pieces" we need, we would need a minimum of 6 starters to be added on D, add to that we still need to add at least 2 starters on the Oline (id like 4 tbh) a stud receiver and a running back as well as depth and I dont see where all these players are gonna come from. I would love to see a complete rebuild with young free agents and draft picks but we dont have many picks and lets be honest, nobody knows who wants to come here to play now.
 

servumtuum

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having wade come in as DC after he has been with the enemy for so long would be a slap to my burgundy and gold face..
There might be another perspective on that, Mike.

If he came here and as a result sweeping the Cowbums during the season became the norm-what kind of a slap-in-the-face to fans of them could that be ? :tantrum:

I see a bunch of potential fun there. :instigate:
 

fansince62

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First, I hereby nominate Burgundy Burner for the understatement of the year.

Second, while heart is nice, that simply won't cut it with a mismatch in talent this large. The fact is, it's simply going to take time for us to get more talent and depth to be real contenders. With some good personnel moves we can be competitive in another year, but we're simply going to have to be patient for a good while for a team that can really dominate anyone.
agree.

and fire the whole f'ing personnel dept. somewhere. anywhere. find talent scouts worth their pay. we all forget how the Iggles deconstructed this past season. why is it every team in the Universe seems to be able to repair itself...except one?

echo'ing someone else's thoughts...I'm not watching anymore until I read in the papers about a quality win for these guys against a good team. until then....eh...who knows...I'll focus on MD B-ball.
 

Bulldog

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the real problem is impatience.

no matter which coach is brought in or how far Snyder promises to be from the decision-making of the front office, the Redskins NEVER deconstruct the team and take the 2-3 years to rebuild it.

it seems as if Snyder determines that he needs jerseys to sell and guys like Colt McCoy aren't going to sell many as fresh faced rookies so it is important to trade for a name like Donovan McNabb.

and that works great for jersey sales, Snyder knows good marketing.

but in terms of football, it is a horrible decision. McNabb doesn't fit the system and is 34 years old with a limited shelf life.

what this club needed was a young quarterback you can grow with.

draft Trent Williams in Round 1, draft a qb in round 2 and let them get on the field and become acclimated to the NFL.

don't trade any picks. keep them all.

trade Haynesworth back to Tennessee for a #3 or #4 if you aren't going to run the 4-3.

see what trade value guys like Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh might have as 27 year old younger vets.

use the picks to help add younger OL and skill players.

but that is not the Redskins way.

the club always has to maintain it is 're-tooling' but not rebuilding.

what it is doing instead is remaining mediocre, year after year.

we are just closing out a decade of this crap.

and there is no end in sight.
 

fansince62

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the real problem is impatience.

no matter which coach is brought in or how far Snyder promises to be from the decision-making of the front office, the Redskins NEVER deconstruct the team and take the 2-3 years to rebuild it.

it seems as if Snyder determines that he needs jerseys to sell and guys like Colt McCoy aren't going to sell many as fresh faced rookies so it is important to trade for a name like Donovan McNabb.

and that works great for jersey sales, Snyder knows good marketing.

but in terms of football, it is a horrible decision. McNabb doesn't fit the system and is 34 years old with a limited shelf life.

what this club needed was a young quarterback you can grow with.

draft Trent Williams in Round 1, draft a qb in round 2 and let them get on the field and become acclimated to the NFL.

don't trade any picks. keep them all.

trade Haynesworth back to Tennessee for a #3 or #4 if you aren't going to run the 4-3.

see what trade value guys like Carlos Rogers and Rocky McIntosh might have as 27 year old younger vets.

use the picks to help add younger OL and skill players.

but that is not the Redskins way.

the club always has to maintain it is 're-tooling' but not rebuilding.

what it is doing instead is remaining mediocre, year after year.

we are just closing out a decade of this crap.

and there is no end in sight.
yup.

if you're going to install a new system:

1) start from the beginning

2) maintain continuity (i.e., the system) through the years so you are not constantly out of synch

3) draft youth/talent to form the foundation

This team suffers a serious talent imbalance. the personnel strategy puts the team in precisely the average at best do loop you outline BT. the question of the moment...which many of us have been speculating on from day 1.....are Allen/Shanahan committed to a short-run set of objectives that basically perpetuate the same old patterns?
 

Goaldeje

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^^i think Shanahan might be. I have Ben hoping Allen isn't so short sighted, though his moves so far indicate he is. Shanahan has to know he only has a few years left, and he doesn't want to go anywhere for a rebuilding project.

The funny thing is, I don't think it has to be a 3 year rebuild, even if they blow it all up. Look at the Rams. They have sucked for several years, been rebuilding for a while now. They have hope now bc they drafted Bradford. Hell, the Lions have been rebuilding since Sanders left. If Stafford could stay healthy, he looks like the real deal and they have hope.

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco came right in and took their teams to the playoffs their first years. It can be done with the right players through good drafting and player acquisition.

The question is, do we have the tools in place necessary for good player acquisition.
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fansince62

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^^i think Shanahan might be. I have Ben hoping Allen isn't so short sighted, though his moves so far indicate he is. Shanahan has to know he only has a few years left, and he doesn't want to go anywhere for a rebuilding project.

The funny thing is, I don't think it has to be a 3 year rebuild, even if they blow it all up. Look at the Rams. They have sucked for several years, been rebuilding for a while now. They have hope now bc they drafted Bradford. Hell, the Lions have been rebuilding since Sanders left. If Stafford could stay healthy, he looks like the real deal and they have hope.

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco came right in and took their teams to the playoffs their first years. It can be done with the right players through good drafting and player acquisition.

The question is, do we have the tools in place necessary for good player acquisition.
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you've hit on one of the more frustrating aspects of this: why do other teams (not all...but a lot) seem to recover so quickly while the Skins have beasically been on an 18 yr backslide?
 

Elephant

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you've hit on one of the more frustrating aspects of this: why do other teams (not all...but a lot) seem to recover so quickly while the Skins have beasically been on an 18 yr backslide?
I think it has been mentioned by many, player acquisitions. We need a high quality player personnel staff. I don't think we've had one for a long time.
 

bird_1972

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I think it has been mentioned by many, player acquisitions. We need a high quality player personnel staff. I don't think we've had one for a long time.
Do you think we have one now?
 

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