Josh Harris Speaks... Commanders is permanent name.

[Riggo44]

This thread makes me want to walk away.

You can’t leave!

 

[Chris]

This is not an expansion team. It is simply the NFL’s Washington franchise playing under a different moniker and under a new, better owner. Nothing more, nothing less.

A return to uniforms closer to those of historical significance, in my opinion, is very high on the list of any fan that has previously rooted for the team for more than one season. It was Snyder who thrust ‘expansion’ type uniforms on the fanbase, not Harris.

 

[CrimsonHide1970]

This thread makes me want to walk away.

I go back and forth about this name thing.

Somedays it angers/saddens/frustrates me to no end that the hopes of a better, more conciliatory (for Redskins fans) name has been denied me and those of my ilk.

Then, somedays, I watch 2024 season highlights and think, "It doesn't matter what they're called if they're playing like this!".

But, eventually, I return to disappointment. And then back to hope.

And so on.

 

[burgold]

This thread makes me want to walk away.

Don't walk. Strut.

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[skinsmarydu]

This thread makes me want to walk away.

I only read the new posts every couple of days.

I see the C-word as an appeasement to a coach that isn't even here anymore. New boss doesn't want to change it "right now".

Just get the yoga pants off the field, put our stripes back on. Damn, Tanya wasn't as "fashion forward" as she thought. When we gotta go white for away games, get that together. I want the team to look NORMAL on the field.

 

[Ghost of Sarge]

I only read the new posts every couple of days.

I see the C-word as an appeasement to a coach that isn't even here anymore. New boss doesn't want to change it "right now".

Just get the yoga pants off the field, put our stripes back on. Damn, Tanya wasn't as "fashion forward" as she thought. When we gotta go white for away games, get that together. I want the team to look NORMAL on the field.

And get rid of the black uniforms. They have NO connection to the team whatsoever

 

[AngryChuckT]

Because it’s not the same team. Snyder wiped that team out. This is basically an expansion team nothing else. Thinking he can blur the two is ignorant on his part. Fans rolled with this on the impression he would make major changes once he bought them. Now he’s basically killed that idea with saying they will stay as they are. So they aren’t the redskins or anything of the past.

It’s an expansion team created by Snyder. You can’t try to take the brand back to old days under a completely different brand. It’s one thing if maybe the team held an identity of Warrior, Braves, etc that connected somewhat back. Snyder decided to change the entire brand and go a completely different direction. Harris decided to stay with it. This is like the Titans trying to act the Oilers. Trying to blend a completely new brand to a brand we were known for is basically being posers.

This is simply Harris seeing immediate dollar signs from Daniels and this year rather than long term. Long term any significantly marketable name and brand would succeed just as well if not much better. Harris isn’t stupid. He knows there are many fans against the name and brand. Yet he thinks the cost effective way is simply putting make up on the pig (no pun) with uniforms mirroring the old days. It shows he’s very much aware of how much the fanbase hates the brand. Versus say Snyder who was painted as being totally oblivious to the hate online of him and other executives which I think is bullsh*t. He had to know.

Brother, I feel the anger and pain in your words. Something very special was ripped from us suddenly and unexpectedly - basically because we were saddled with the worst owner in sports. Then the worst owner in sports saddled us with this ridiculous name. But this is not an expansion team. It is our Washington franchise. If it was an expansion team, I would not be raising the 4th Generation in Cowboys and Chiefs territory 1000 miles from where I was raised. The team will always be my Washington Redskins. Now they are my kid's Washington Commanders. It is 2025. The name is never coming. I hope we can slip the logo in around the edges and perhaps a miracle will occur and we can wear Wetzel's beautiful design on the helmet once or twice a year. As wholly hypocritical and unfair as it is watching the Chiefs do the Tomahawk chop (which is probably actually condescending and offensive) the Washington franchise will never be allowed permanent and regular NA names or imagery, including feathers.

I don't know what Harris weighed in making the decision to keep the name. I don't now the internal and external pressures or economic realities he dealt with in deciding to keep it. He did likely make the smart business decision and it is his team ultimately. I don't begrudge him that especially with all the good he has done - the most being getting rid of the worst owner in sports. The young fans only remember the Redskins being a source of pain and embarrassment. They don't love the imagery like those who remember the glory days do - I know my kids don't (though they do wear some Skins stuff). Unfortunately, those of us that remember the glory days are long in the tooth and won't be around forever. Harris has lightening in a bottle and is riding with it. I am focusing on creating memories with my kids like the memories I have. For me, fixing those atrocities called uniforms and getting close to the classic look and maybe playing around with logo (putting it in a circle maybe?) would satisfy me. I would even buy a little merch here and there to match my kids who have Commanders jerseys they clamored for. That, along with not running from or trying to erase the past while our team wins SBs again is good enough until I am in the ground.

 

[Knightingale]

We do not know hardly any of the facts, it's all speculation. I would not be suprised if the NFL, or sponsors of merchandise and other aspects, aren't involving themselves in the name change convo? I think it's totally possible that Goodell, and the other owners, could be saying they will not support a 3rd name change in 5 years.

I know a couple things though.

There was a lot more support this year than I've seen in the last 20, and that includes 2012. Not only was there a lot more, there was a lot more from a younger demographic. That support also was very invested in the black uniforms... Uniforms that a lot of people have (and continue to) push back on. This team has a lot of momentum right now, so this has to be a very delicate decision to change the name again, if they're not facing the hurdles mention above. I've grown up supporting this franchise my entire life, and honestly nothing can take away what I have had as a Redskins fan. That's not going away just because the name changed. I hated Snyder while he owned the team, but I still supported it. That's again not going to change because of Snyder. In fact, if you hate Snyder that much, it's MORE enjoyable seeing the team succeed under the name he chose as he was getting jettisoned from his position as owner, and quite literally days after it happened.

As Riggo44 pointed out, ticket sales - UP. Merchandise sales - UP. Season Ticket Renewals - UP.

Daniels, and co, are a massive MASSIVE reason for that, but they are also very likely the reason people can get past the name change if they are still hanging on. Some never will...

Despite what people want to believe, I think Quinn and co have also bought into 'the Commander way.' There were videos pre-draft where during evaluations, they were saying "that guy fit's what it means to be a Commander." There was a level of pride in that. Now it's a relatively generic comment, but it's still something you can tell they are talking about, and endorsing, inside the locker room and on the sidelines. The success of the team in year 1 under this management group largely amplified it.... so I imagine for Harris and co, they were faced with a pivot. They see the up swing (it's much larger than an up-tick) in fan support, and it creates a different dynamic of whether there is enough here to maintain this trajectory, or do they re-enter the process of yet another re-brand. I don't think they were steadfast in keeping Commanders, I think the success of the season, both on and off the field, may have changed that. More progress in MULTIPLE directions of this franchise has happened over the last 12 months than did over the last 12 years.

I'm not convinced this can't work, I think it's fine. It's clearly not my favorite, but it's not bad enough for me to turn my back either. I've been supporting THIS franchise my entire life, and I hope to hold on to the Redskins as much as I possibly can. It's not an expansion team, it's a new name. The team is still in the same market, region, and facilities. Harris and co. have re-injected the history of the Redskins since the day they got here. From dismantling the "Sean Taylor Installation," to the announcement of retiring no. 28, and they way it was rolled out. The Murals on the walls of the team facility with the logo VERY present. They have apparently approached, and spoken directly with the Wetzel family. The latest being the Redskins original logo being printed on a shirt paying tribute to Sean Taylor, being sold on NFL.com directly.

Eliminating these connections to the past now would be irrational and irresponsible imho. In fact I hope they continue to maintain that connection, and that the uniform tweaks bring us back to what we looked like when we were the Redskins. Continue to play the fight song in the stadium, even if there are no lyrics that go with Commanders...who really cares? Play the music and let us older heads always have something to bring us back, even if the name is gone. Snyder is gone, but when he was here, I still rooted for the team.... him being gone, I'm sure as hell not walking away now.

Awesome post 👏🏻

 

[JoeyG]

Here is why I think Josh Harris is making a dumb business decision keeping the name. People reference that Jayden Daniels was the #1 selling jersey in the NFL. People love Jayden Daniels and with good reason. He is a terrific football player. I also hear people compare this past season with 2012-RG3's rookie year. He also had the NFL's highest selling jersey.

The TV numbers for local viewership are low. I believe 20th in the NFL right behind Jacksonville. That is a problem.

Here are the attendance numbers for home games.

2012 79,654 ranking 3rd in the NFL
2024 63,428 ranking 30th in the NFL
2023 63,950 ranking 27th in the NFL

Yes, that is correct. They drew more fans last year with Sam Howell than this year with Jayden Daniels and a 12 win team. Washington was a marquee NFL team in 2012, nowhere close to that now. People are buying Jayden Daniels jerseys because they like Jayden Daniels, not because they are connecting with this new brand. Josh Harris is costing the ownership group serious money by not changing the name and improving the brand.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Here is why I think Josh Harris is making a dumb business decision keeping the name. People reference that Jayden Daniels was the #1 selling jersey in the NFL. People love Jayden Daniels and with good reason. He is a terrific football player. I also hear people compare this past season with 2012-RG3's rookie year. He also had the NFL's highest selling jersey.

The TV numbers for local viewership are low. I believe 20th in the NFL right behind Jacksonville. That is a problem.

Here are the attendance numbers for home games.

2012 79,654 ranking 3rd in the NFL
2024 63,428 ranking 30th in the NFL
2023 63,950 ranking 27th in the NFL

Yes, that is correct. They drew more fans last year with Sam Howell than this year with Jayden Daniels and a 12 win team. Washington was a marquee NFL team in 2012, nowhere close to that now. People are buying Jayden Daniels jerseys because they like Jayden Daniels, not because they are connecting with this new brand. Josh Harris is costing the ownership group serious money by not changing the name and improving the brand.

there is nuance here.

1. 2021 there were 15000 more seats in the stadium than there are now.
2. 2023 may have had better ticket sales, but VASTLY different in regards to how many were repping the Burgundy and Gold vs the opposing fan.
3. Viewership is 1000% dependent on the TV distribution maps. For instance, below is the distribution map for Week 9 when we played @ Giants... Our game is the blue.. Dallas vs Atlanta is the Red.

4. As far as local viewership is concerned, it's been eroding for 3 decades, so we can't exactly expect it to completely rebound in a single season. It did however drastically improve if i'm not mistaken. I also wonder how it factors in streaming services in an area like ours, vs a rural area where basic cable is the standard?


The point was never that they're connecting with the new brand as the top reason. Just that the fanbase is CAPABLE of doing so, which begs the question of whether or not it's actually worth ANOTHER re-brand.

This team wins a Super Bowl, and the parade will still be bigger than the Caps or Nats Championship parades...

 

[Chris]

Attendance numbers are not a good measure unless coupled with seating capacity being included.

NW Field has the second smallest seating capacity in the NFL (according to Wiki) ahead of only Soldier Field in Chicago.

 

[JoeyG]

Attendance numbers are not a good measure unless coupled with seating capacity being included.

NW Field has the second smallest seating capacity in the NFL (according to Wiki) ahead of only Soldier Field in Chicago.

I agree seating capacity is a key component-However I was surprised that attendance went down from 2023 to 2024-what do you think?

 

[Primus Porcus]

I agree seating capacity is a key component-However I was surprised that attendance went down from 2023 to 2024-what do you think?

opposing fans

if were talking about the support from fans of THIS franchise... there weren't 63,950 of them at Fedex field in 2023... the total number may have gone down, but HOME team fans in 2024 was MASSIVELY higher than in 2023

 

[Conn]

I hate the Commanders name despite being the type of fan who felt resigned to the fact that the old name would eventually have to change with the times for 15+ years now. So I was ready for it, and they rolled it out, and I hated it. Still do. I don’t need to elaborate more, people here get it.

But as soon as we had this year 1 NFCCG run and it was clear we’d built a new culture around this brand identity under Harris/Peters/Quinn…I knew that was it. Never were they going to change it after all that. They’ll lean into it now and just try to make it aesthetically cool while they win enough to make 85% of people not care anymore.

And you know what? Going back to a slightly modernized Redskins uniform with the proper colors, stripes, and helmets but with a big ass “W” slapped on there instead of the old logo? That’s going to be enough to get most people to shut the fuck up, probably me included. I acknowledge that that doesn’t include all of you, and I respect it. But maybe the worst part about this terrible brand is that it’s lazy and dorky and corny. Make it sleek and cool with a hint of old school classic, pay proper respect to the past without acting like it’s illegal to mention or highlight…that’ll be enough for most people.

Of course not all, including the more vocal in this thread, like I said. And I’ll always wish they had changed it as well, for the record, even if over time I stop being…well, a broken record about it. But that’s what being the most hardcore of hardcore fans is about—caring about shit that the vast majority of the fanbase that financially supports the league doesn’t care about, or stops caring about when given a good enough reason. Unfortunately those hardest of the hardcore who would stop spending money over stuff like this aren’t a large enough number to change anything. And as the fanbase grows and gets younger, the power of that group dwindles and dies out. Until all that’s left are people who grew up with the honorable, well-run Josh Harris Commanders (if we don’t blow up the planet first). Sad? Yeah, in some ways. That’s the way history works. I bet there were some old fogeys who went to their death beds being able to recite the short-lived Boston Braves box scores from memory, and lamenting the move and change to Redskins. Time marches on.

 

[ArtMonkWasMyHero]

Hypothetical Question: Let's say that instead of Snyder the Skins had a more ... reasonable gentleman as owner after JKC (John Jr, a Rooney type, etc).

Would such a person have managed the name change pressure better?

 

[Spearfeather]

opposing fans

if were talking about the support from fans of THIS franchise... there weren't 63,950 of them at Fedex field in 2023... the total number may have gone down, but HOME team fans in 2024 was MASSIVELY higher than in 2023

Another thing maybe to keep in mind as far as attendance is, outside of our division, we really didn't play many teams with fans known for " traveling well ".

Browns, Titans, Falcons, Panthers ... Not exactly known for taking over stadiums.

 

[Chris]

The TV numbers for local viewership are low. I believe 20th in the NFL right behind Jacksonville. That is a problem.

The local tv draw is concerning and tough to reconcile. Do you think that if the name had been changed to Redwolves, Wolves, Warriors, etal that they would have been markedly higher?

After the hiring of Peters, Quinn, Kingsbury and all of the other new coaches, the drafting of Daniels, etc that would be a difficult conclusion for me to draw.

 

[RedWolf]

This thread makes me want to walk away.

It is what it is. People can't let it go and move forward.

IMO we are Washington

 

[Chris]

Hypothetical Question: Let's say that instead of Snyder the Skins had a more ... reasonable gentleman as owner after JKC (John Jr, a Rooney type, etc).

Would such a person have managed the name change pressure better?

Personally, I don’t think it would have happened sans Snyder.

 

[Primus Porcus]

The local tv draw is concerning and tough to reconcile. Do you think that if the name had been changed to Redwolves, Wolves, Warriors, etal that they would have been markedly higher?

After the hiring of Peters, Quinn, Kingsbury and all of the other new coaches, the drafting of Daniels, etc that would be a difficult conclusion for me to come to.

How many fans of the Commanders are still in the DC market? This is, and always has been a transient market. Meanwhile we have a group almost everywhere we play.

Add to that the amount of people who live in the DC Metro area that have 'cut the cord.' I wonder if streaming services are included when it comes to the local viewership?

Add to that the lack of success and the amount of fans that the recent success has had to re-engage. 20th in the NFL, it wasn't that long ago that i believe we were in the bottom 2 or 3 in the same metric. It's not all going to come back in 1 season. Hell, just scroll back and look at how many people on this very board that have said they've been hesitant, but as the season went on, the feeling started coming back.