How will you 'fan' the rest of the way - pray for wins or hope to lose out?

Win out or lose out?

  • I always want to win the game

    Votes: 28 47.5%
  • This team is done - losing out is better for the team.

    Votes: 28 47.5%
  • Other (comment please)

    Votes: 3 5.1%

  • Total voters
    59
I get your point on next year's draft, but draft position always matters. You only have so many picks, and you need to make sure you draft the players you are MOST confident are who you think they are. The lower the pick, the great the opportunity to draft that guy. And while the opportunity to trade down is always overhyped by fans (it requires a team so in love with a player they are willing to give up significant picks to get him), it is still a possibility. And it's a lot more likely if we hold a pick in the top 5 than beyond that point imho. So while I don't believe teams tank, I think losing out would be the best thing for the long-term progression of the team.

I agree with the rest of your post SIP.
 
I get your point on next year's draft, but draft position always matters. You only have so many picks, and you need to make sure you draft the players you are MOST confident are who you think they are. The lower the pick, the great the opportunity to draft that guy. And while the opportunity to trade down is always overhyped by fans (it requires a team so in love with a player they are willing to give up significant picks to get him), it is still a possibility. And it's a lot more likely if we hold a pick in the top 5 than beyond that point imho. So while I don't believe teams tank, I think losing out would be the best thing for the long-term progression of the team.

I agree with the rest of your post SIP.

Every draft is different. On first blush for me and draftniks seem to echo this about this one. That is, you don't at least superficallly have these superfreak talents in the top 10, they pretty much blend in as similar talents, arguably so through the top 15. I've already watched a bunch of the edges and WRs. On first glance I am not losing one whit of sleep if they got Jordyn Tyson or Carnell Tait or Bain over Bailey or it they drop a little further in the draft if its Downs versus lets say Love. It feels like the top 15 players are very similar. And there is likely only 2 QBs going early and i doubt this team would be in position where they'd be picking top 3 and be the team that could trade down.

So coming from the guy who really every season that has gone wrong, I've rooted for losses and lol took some arrows from some for having that position, i am not rooting for losses this time. I don't see the value the same way as the past and i do see some downside for finishing the season in an abysmal fashion. If they happened to lose out, i won't be depressed, i see some upside to it. But lol, i wish this was a draft with a Nabers or Will Anderson type where am salivating for someone specific. I like someone like Bain. But the dude lol has 2 sacks, and short arms, he's not some no brainer prospect. Jordyn Tyson is a fun watch. But a dude like Nabers was a monster with YAC, Tyson is pedestrian with the ball in his hands. And is he better than Tate? Not sure. Or is Bain better than Faulk, or Bailey or Reese? I can go on and on.

It wouldn't shock me if for example some dude between 10-20 ends up the stud of the draft ala when Baltimore took Kyle Hamilton years ago. Love and Downs albiet don't play premium positions might end up the best players in this draft and likely will be available from 10 to 15. It feels like that kind of draft to me so far. I can expound on the point some more but don't want to turn this thread into a draft discussion.

I'll use my son, a teenager as an example. lol, I've groomed him and my other kid as Washington fans but its not been easy through all those dark seasons. Their interest really faded over the years but lol I get them back last season. times have changed, etc. this year it feels like i lost them again, no interest in watching the team, feels same old same old to them. i know its a small sample but I suspect for some other fans who are used to the misery, you might have to fight to get them back again or at a minimum they will shrug off any potential optimism for next season.

Having a season where they look for a good stretch of the season as the worst team in the NFL -- with fans calling in to talk radio, talking about Jayden isn't it, Maye is much better, its going to take years for this team to be competitive -- some of it is wild to me and I do think it has some impact for an organziation trying to reignite the fan base. So diving head first into a dark season which rivals any of the worst seasons in the last 30 years -- isn't something i am going to embrace no matter any upside and I don't see the upside as much.

So nope i am not rooting for more misery. I personally don't need to see much for me to be jazzed for next season but it feels like i am in the minority. And over the years, the fact that there is so little enthusiasm for this team nationally and this being one of the declining fan bases -- as an NFL fan, the idea that am rooting for one of the lesser relevant teams takes a little joy out of it for me. Last year was one heck of a charge back to the norm. It was a blast. Not just as a Comamnders fan but an NFL fan. So going full embrace for irrelevance, this team sucks land for the greater good long term -- I get the concept but I just can't look at a draft theoritically, I can't help but dive into the specifics, and I don't see the upside this time.

Not just with my kids, I interact with too many people about football, here and elsewhere, and the off season is 8 months long so lol am not embracing for things to end dark, I want it to end with some hope. Because right now the narratives are really depressing and this coming from someone who doesn't share that feeling of being down about everything but its hard not to hate some of the narratives where so many fans think THIS team is the real Commanders not 2024. And that Peters sucks. Quinn sucks. Jayden is nothing special. They need 5 years to rebuild. On and on.

And look, I'd deal with all that negativity if i thought we'd get the next Nabers or name that elite prospect. But this draft doesn't feel that way to me right now. I am usually at this point salivating for some player. And I do like a bunch of the guys I've watched but i am not salivating for anyone specific yet.
 
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Well, we have to keep in mind, it doesn't matter one bit what fans ARE or AREN'T rooting for. The team may win out, they may win 1 or 2 more, or they may not win again in 2025. What fans are rooting for, and/or how they feel about any of those possibilities is irrelevant. I still think it is very difficult to argue that any psychological or marketing benefit from more wins is more beneficial than better draft position - but that's just how I see it. Quinn and company will do everything they can to win so I don't even see the results of those efforts this season as being all that important from a 'development' and 'morale' perspective.

As to your comments about the draft being bereft of true impact players (or having many many players of relatively equal talent), a couple comments. We are fans. Some fans like you, and many social media folks who put in significant time assessing draft talent, have a ton of knowledge. I am certainly not that guy. I don't watch college football (aside from my alma mater) and am the last person to be posting about draft rankings. While the consensus this year may be that next year's draft may not be one set up for trade downs, NFL GMs may view it quite differently. There are always players GMs fall in love with and in certain circumstances will trade up to ensure they get. Yes - that most often happens in QB rich drafts. But it can happen in any draft.

I won't go as far as to say I 'hope' we lose out. When I am watching a game, such as the one in Madrid last Sunday, I am always rooting for our guys to win. But as soon as that score went final, I quickly decided it was ultimately the best thing for the franchise. I'm pretty sure I'll feel that way with every loss we have down the stretch.
 
I think that’s a fair post. I’m an (unintentional) tank guy as well, and I’ll happily find the silver lining in their upcoming losses. But I think you made a good argument for your POV sip. I get it
 
One other comment - we assume that there's no way this team is picking top 3, but given that 'tanking' in the NFL seems mostly to be a fan thing, and not based in reality, there are still a lot of games to be played and while perhaps not the likeliest scenario it is possible that is exactly where Washington ends up picking. Just sayin'...
 
It is entirely possible that the team loses out while doing their absolute best to win. Or wins 3.

As far as trades go, here is the most recent at the top of the draft-

IMG_0058.jpeg


Not bad for Cleveland to move back only 3 spots to a non QB thirsty trade partner.
 
Well, we have to keep in mind, it doesn't matter one bit what fans ARE or AREN'T rooting for. The team may win out, they may win 1 or 2 more, or they may not win again in 2025. What fans are rooting for, and/or how they feel about any of those possibilities is irrelevant. I still think it is very difficult to argue that any psychological or marketing benefit from more wins is more beneficial than better draft position - but that's just how I see it. Quinn and company will do everything they can to win so I don't even see the results of those efforts this season as being all that important from a 'development' and 'morale' perspective.

As to your comments about the draft being bereft of true impact players (or having many many players of relatively equal talent), a couple comments. We are fans. Some fans like you, and many social media folks who put in significant time assessing draft talent, have a ton of knowledge. I am certainly not that guy. I don't watch college football (aside from my alma mater) and am the last person to be posting about draft rankings. While the consensus this year may be that next year's draft may not be one set up for trade downs, NFL GMs may view it quite differently. There are always players GMs fall in love with and in certain circumstances will trade up to ensure they get. Yes - that most often happens in QB rich drafts. But it can happen in any draft.

I won't go as far as to say I 'hope' we lose out. When I am watching a game, such as the one in Madrid last Sunday, I am always rooting for our guys to win. But as soon as that score went final, I quickly decided it was ultimately the best thing for the franchise. I'm pretty sure I'll feel that way with every loss we have down the stretch.

Agree, it doesn't matter what we are rooting for. But just explaining why am not rooting for losses. Losses won't bother me though -- them being boat raced would bother me.

I didn't say the draft doesn't have impact players. Every draft does. My point is it doesn't feel like it has those obvious superstar freaks on first glance. My point is sort of the opposite of there not being impact players. It doesn't hit me on first glance on can't miss superstars like exist in some drafts -- but it looks like plenty of very good players. My point is let's take WR for example: I am not so sure that there is some huge gap between: Tyson, Tate, Lemon, Boston, Concepion, Brazzell. On first watch i am in deep like with all of them, not love, not blown away but they come off promising and impactful.

I don't live and die with draftnik takes. But when i start watching it and it mirrors their takes -- albiet not completely -- it gets my attention a bit more. But I got my share of offbeat takes that differ from draftnik every draft season and I already have one major one this draft on early watches.

No doubt GMs fall for players. Peters and Quinn looked giddy when they drafted Johnny Newton for example. That's cool. It just doesn't faze me as to changing my draft takes. But I absolutely agree they will fall for someone like they did for Conerly last draft, etc. I think every team does.

As for trade downs, I am more pessimistic than some because often the idea is trade down and then you hear later sometimes there were no trade down offers or the trade down offers were miniscule. Now last year there was a trade down offer. Actually ironically trading down when you are picking deeper in the draft sometimes gives you more of an opportunity because teams are losing out on a position -- going back to my WR point, if you are picking 29 and 6 WRs are gone and you think there is only 1 A level guy left, you trade up to get what's left.

Now when there is a QB in play, its often easy to trade down. If they end up picking first or 2nd in the draft, i think they can trade down with teams trading up for Mendoza or Simpson. But am not sure what player a team would trade up for aside from the QBs in the top 10? Good thing for us its loaded at Wr and edge. But am not so sure there is one player at either spot that teams would trade the farm to go out and get. But its early will see.
 
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The Jags are also dumb. We need someone dumb. Really dumb. Like Atlanta-level dumb.

Also Hunter is seen by some as freakish talent. Abdul Carter, too. Granted neither has looked like that in the pros yet. It's still early. But i would say at the moment the only dude that's getting those freakish comps to is Reese. But at the same time he's an off the ball LB and they typically don't go high. I know some say convert him to edge like Pasrons. I can see that but there is some unknown as to that transition.

You got Love and Downs but safety and RB don't tend to go top 10 let alone a team trading up for one.

Maybe if lets say Jordyn Tyson and or Tate suprirses and burns up the combine and show they have freakish athleticism or ditto for Bailey at edge -- because right now that seems to be what's limited their hype a little.
 
Last point lol on the draft here. But maybe the simplest way for me to make my point.

If they go best player available and are picking in the 10-15 range it might actually be Love or Downs where even though neither meets their top need, they also might end up being game changers and the best players in the draft. If I had to pick one player who is elite from my watchings so far it would be Love. I haven't watched Downs yet.

Or if they end up with Lemon or Boston at WR over Tyson or Tate, I wouldn't place bets on one of these WRs being better than another. It's really hard to guess. i don't think for example it was that hard to watch Nabers during the draft and say he and Harrison were a peg above the rest.

Ditto if its Bailey versus Bain. Hard call. On and on.

it feels early on like a uniquely deep draft at their need spots but not top heavy. Usually there is a dude i really really want. But right now I am in Baskin and Robbins and can go with 12 different flavors. I am not in love with any of the flavors but I really like all of them. So this hits me as a deep first round especially but without being top heavy with killer prospects. And you can talk me into almost any position so am not married to one.

So all of this weighs in on my thoughts about tanking. Obviously, its purely my opinion and own quirky take. But that's all i got right now.
 
At this point, I want our young players to play well, and the team to look interested and competitive, in what is ultimately a loss. Best of both worlds. Shows heart, and we ultimately get a top tier pick we can use to really improve the team after a lost season.
 
Also Hunter is seen by some as freakish talent. Abdul Carter, too.
Atlanta traded 2 firsts for James Pearce, who had all kinds of makeup questions about him, and hasn't lit up the league, yet. We need that level dumb.
 
Atlanta traded 2 firsts for James Pearce, who had all kinds of makeup questions about him, and hasn't lit up the league, yet. We need that level dumb.

Yeah its possible don't get me wrong. But I am not counting on it. Forget which year, where it was a recent one where it was leaked that the team was interested in trading down and when asked about it later they said no one offered a trade.

It's one of Keim's favorite points during the draft season which is just because you want to trade down doesn't mean you will get an offer to trade down.
 
It's one of Keim's favorite points during the draft season which is just because you want to trade down doesn't mean you will get an offer to trade down.
Or get a trade worth considering to move down. One of my pet peeves is the "just trade down" crowd. It's similar to Kramer explaining write offs.
 
Or get a trade worth considering to move down. One of my pet peeves is the "just trade down" crowd. It's similar to Kramer explaining write offs.


Perfect analogy. Just trade down, get a bunch of picks, no big deal.

lol, yeah sometimes those offers come, sometimes they don't.
 
I actually got so good at (and comfortable) rooting for losses in the latter Snyder years. I got to the point where I didn’t want us to win a single game again until he sold the franchise, when it finally started to feel realistic, and I figured a historic losing streak could contribute to that. I would be joyful when we’d get embarrassed in the second half of the Rivera years, in pursuit of that goal. I wanted to burn it all down until there was no doubt. And that continued, with a more focused goal, during Harris’ first year bc I wanted a QB at the top of the draft and for Rivera to be replaced.

I had to train myself out of it once we drafted Daniels. It was fun to root for wins again and to enjoy competitive, slime-free football.
 
Here's kind of the other issue I have with this year, as opposed to previous years: I cannot remember a team that was this injured. Sometimes it's one position that just gets decimated. I remember in 2012 (may have been 35-7 drubbing back in 05 also), I think, the Cowboys were just hemorrhaging linebackers, pulling people off the street and starting them. We ended up bulldozing them. We're doing that at DE, CB, and WR like I've never seen. Better health alone gets us to 6, maybe 7 wins, right now (Cowboys, Falcons, Bears, Dolphins)--and that's even with Whitt calling the defense. The picture isn't as bleak as it seems, I don't think. Maybe that's just me, trying to numb the pain of this season.
 
I can never hope for a loss, because winning or trying to win is a habit.

However if they lose, I can rationale that they earned the better draft position.
Pretty much same here! In the midst of watching a game - I can't help it - I will be actively hoping we win. But will not be destroyed if we lose and can digest the silver lining in a lost season.
 
Pretty much same here! In the midst of watching a game - I can't help it - I will be actively hoping we win. But will not be destroyed if we lose and can digest the silver lining in a lost season.
That's me and Redskinskinfan ... we watch together, hope for a win, but not losing our minds over a loss now. (She brought me homemade chocolate chip cookies today.)
 

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