How Do You Compete With No OL or CBs?

[servumtuum]

I almost hate to say this but it seems that sometimes we look for-or even expect-the "ideal" fit for a needed position to be floating around out there just waiting for us to snatch up as needed. Other teams have similar needs and grab these guys too and sometimes they do it before we can get to them. As tshile pointed out we've used our top picks on serious needs for the team and we have had to prioritize other needs accordingly and grabbing OL guys in lower rounds is just what we've had to do. That cap penalty has indeed also crippled our ability to fill needs to the extent they are needed and how we would like to have them filled.

This team was in one of the worst talent-deficit positions of any team in the league for quite a while and while there have been notable misses and mistakes made in the effort to fix things I don't think it has been the total disaster some seem to portray it as having been.

 

[Bulldog]

I am merely saying in MY heirarchy of needs with a rookie franchise qb getting the OT situation straightened out is MORE important than signing second-tier receivers or safeties that have had a problem keeping a job in the NFL

 

[tshile]

Bulldog,
then which OT would you have signed this off season? Which one was a free agent that you'd rather have over Morgan/Merriweather?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Bulldog,
then which OT would you have signed this off season? Which one was a free agent that you'd rather have over Morgan/Merriweather?

I know you're not asking me, but Eric Winston or Evan Mathis are the answers to that question for me at least.

Winston & Mathis together have a total 2012 cap hit of $5M, just $250K more than Josh Morgan's $4.75M cap hit.


EDIT: Also, Morgan's cap hit next season will be $6.75M, compared to Winston's $7M.

 

[tshile]

Winston went to the chiefs, so I would imagine we had a shot at him.

Mathis resigned with the eagles for a big, long term deal. I'd be curious how much of a chance we would have even had with him.

It looks like the cap hit would have been 6 million - 4.9 for Winston 1 for Mathis. Also Mathis' deal is really back loaded, 25 million over 5 years with only 1 million in the first year. I'm not a salary cap expert so I have no idea if that matters or not, I'm just posting the numbers.

 

[Elephant]

Eric Winston and Evan Mathis are 2 names that come to mind. We likely had little to no chance for Winston, he didn't even visit...not sure if he used the cap penalties as a determining factor to even visit, but he signed with KC rather quickly. Immediate upgrade over Polumbus and Brown.

The other is Evan Mathis. We got a visit with him and he decided to stay with the Eagles. Was it about money? Was he told he may have to compete with Licht when Licht was coming off a knee injury? Was he looking for a starting position guarantee?

Well, we were hampered by the cap situation but we did spend on Morgan so we could have given either that money.

I am not going to condemn the Meriwhether or the Morgan signings, we needed upgrades for both positions, but when you have a shot at one of the better RT's in the game, especially in the ZBS, or a solid OG when all you have is a 7th round draft choice and a solid starter with uncertainty about his knee, you have to pull the trigger knowing the woes our OL has had and the bright new shiny toy that needs to be protected.

Eric Winston should have been the #1 priority. Garcon #2.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Winston went to the chiefs, so I would imagine we had a shot at him.

Mathis resigned with the eagles for a big, long term deal. I'd be curious how much of a chance we would have even had with him.

It looks like the cap hit would have been 6 million - 4.9 for Winston 1 for Mathis. Also Mathis' deal is really back loaded, 25 million over 5 years with only 1 million in the first year. I'm not a salary cap expert so I have no idea if that matters or not, I'm just posting the numbers.

Did you read the links I posted? Its $5M total - $3M for Winston and $2M for Mathis.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Eric Winston and Evan Mathis are 2 names that come to mind. We likely had little to no chance for Winston, he didn't even visit...not sure if he used the cap penalties as a determining factor to even visit, but he signed with KC rather quickly. Immediate upgrade over Polumbus and Brown.

There was some OL who said they wouldn't sign with the Redskins - not sure if it was Winston or not.

 

[tshile]

Did you read the links I posted? Its $5M total - $3M for Winston and $2M for Mathis.

Yeah... thats why I posted it, it appeared your numbers were wrong. I was posting what their 2012 salary numbers were, not realizing thats not the same as their 2012 cap hit.

Salary cap and hits aren't exactly my strong suit when it comes to football knowledge.

not to mention sportstrac's numbers don't match some of the salary numbers you get when you google the names. not sure which one has the right numbers.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah... thats why I posted it, it appeared your numbers were wrong. I was posting what their 2012 salary numbers were, not realizing thats not the same as their 2012 cap hit.

Salary cap and hits aren't exactly my strong suit when it comes to football knowledge.

not to mention sportstrac's numbers don't match some of the salary numbers you get when you google the names. not sure which one has the right numbers.

4 years, $22M what you get when you Google Winston's contract with the Chiefs. 5 years, $25M is what you get when you search for Mathis' contract on Google. Where do you find different numbers?

 

[tshile]

LOL...so you're admitting you don't know what you're talking about, while still saying I'm wrong. Brilliant!

4 years, $22M what you get when you Google Winston's contract with the Chiefs. 5 years, $25M is what you get when you search for Mathis' contract on Google. Where do you find different numbers?

What are you talking about? I've admitted multiple times I don't know a whole lot about the salary cap, and in the post you just quoted I explained how i arrived at the wrong solution. How am I still saying you're wrong?

If you're going to make it a habit of arguing with me every time I post in a thread you should at least put in the effort to read what I type. I don't think it's much to ask.

Believe it or not Lanky, there's more than one way to skin a cat. If you use 'salary' instead of 'contract', the google results change:

Mathis-
https://www.google.com/search?q=Eva...cp.r_qf.&fp=e144f1b25e45ee57&biw=1366&bih=677

You'll notice the pop up on the right that says salary is 1 million in 2012

Winston:
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&...cp.r_qf.&fp=e144f1b25e45ee57&biw=1366&bih=677

You'll notice the pop up on the right says his salary is 4.9 million in 2012

I just added the two together. In case you still missed it, I'm admitting again that was clearly the wrong way to calculate the cap hit.

 

[tshile]

Google has 2 salaries listed for Winston: 5.5 milion and 4.9 million.
Neither of which are the same as sportrac's 3 million.

Google has Mathis listed at 1 million, which is not the same as Sportrac's 2 million (however it is the same as the base salary listed on sportrac)

I'm in no way claiming these numbers are right. Just showing you where I got them from. I have no idea what the correct numbers are.

 

[Bulldog]

I never said the Redskins should not have signed a #1 receiver. That was clearly a need.

I just didn't see where Morgan was going to necessarily beat out Hankerson, who we already used a high pick on last year.

With Davis at TE and Helu as a pass receiver out of the backfield, I thought we had enough for Griffin to get started with after Garcon was in-house on offense in re skill players.

The offense and defense here are relective opposite images.

The offense now has some good skill talent but no big uglies while the defense has some big uglies but no skill talent in the backfield.
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[Rymanofthenorth]

we could easily have signed mathis and winston, we didnt put in any effort with winston at all, and Mathis visited but left because we probably tried to bargain basement a guy who was ranked as a top 5 guard for 2 seasons and who had just played out a one year deal and was looking for a decent payday.

bottom line we sign those two and suddenly this line goes from bottom of the barrel to solid and one player away from being a contender line.

yeah I know we had some plan blah blah, but the fact remains, ive been watching guys make excuses for our bs olin play for a decade, its only gotten worse under shanny. You cannot run a scheme without topflight Olinemen anymore, its just not possible, defences are too athletic now.

We need to literally spend an entire offseason now on upgrading the Oline and getting some decent secondary players, we have whiffed in free agency for 3 years, I think its because shanny wanted to show he was gonna be frugal but frugal is only one step away from cheap and cheap doesnt win.

 

[Bulldog]

Yes, it is the truth that in more than the odd case Shanahan has come out in 2010, 2011 and 2012 and indicated when asked that the Redskins weren't interested in OL Player 'X' or 'Y' because 'they don't fit what we do here'.

So, there is some of that Goldilocks syndrome in Washington. This porridge is too hot and this one is too cold.

Trying to get 5 guys that play a specialized scheme exactly right is something that may take 5 years to accomplish.

Easier to run a scheme like most of the other clubs that accent fire off the ball power, so that their players and free agents match OUR system and we can plug and play with free agents when injuries arise.

The way we are going now Kyle Shanahan has to reach back in his memory banks to have Bruce Allen pluck Jordan Black from an insurance sales job to come back to the NFL after having not started a game since 2010.

GOTTA BE A BETTER WAY THAN THIS FOLKS!

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Just wish Tanard Jackson would've stayed away from the wacky terbacky. Wish that Brandon Meriweather didn't have any injuries. Wish that Chase Minnifield was healthy. Wish Kevin Barnes would've taken several steps forward this season.

It would've been nice to see Tom Compton step in as a rookie and be an impact player. It would be nice if Adam Gettis was a steal in the fifth round. It would be nice if Josh LeRibeus was able to be what the coaches thought of him back in April. It would be nice to have Willie Smith back on the team.

Just a lot of nice wishes. Bah.

 

[Boone]

Well - this IS the Redskins we're talking about here BB.

Luck is not an option.

 

[Bulldog]

Speaking of Luck, can you imagine Andrew Luck behind this line? It would have been 1989 with Troy Aikman all over again.
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[DieselPwr44]

Just wish Tanard Jackson would've stayed away from the wacky terbacky. Wish that Brandon Meriweather didn't have any injuries. Wish that Chase Minnifield was healthy. Wish Kevin Barnes would've taken several steps forward this season.

It would've been nice to see Tom Compton step in as a rookie and be an impact player. It would be nice if Adam Gettis was a steal in the fifth round. It would be nice if Josh LeRibeus was able to be what the coaches thought of him back in April. It would be nice to have Willie Smith back on the team.

Just a lot of nice wishes. Bah.

"Wish Cotton was a monkey"-Spanky

Gettis,LeRibeus and Compton may still be players.

Skins fans just have to do like Axl Rose- "All we need is just a little patience..."

And that's just it, the fanbase has no patience. They claim they do..but they really don't.

 

[bird_1972]

This OL depresses me.

I hold out hope that our 2nd rounder next year gets spent on a RT. In the meantime, keeping my fingers crossed that RG3 doesn't get killed this season.