Lanky Livingston
Guest
I'm not even talking about Massie, I wanted Eric Winston here. I wanted Ryman's boy Evan Mathis here. THESE are the type of OL that fit our scheme and are GOOD.
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How Do You Compete With No OL or CBs?
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Lanky Livingston
Guest
That's the biggest head scratcher. Yeah, maybe Willie gets whipped on the field just as badly, but at LEAST he's on the right side of 25 and has his whole career ahead of him. Black was OUT of the NFL! LOL. I just don't get it.
Yeah, I have been wondering about this myself. He did well for a rookie filling in for Williams during the last 4 games of 2011. I can't figure out why we let a promising young T go for Black.
CounterTrey
The Team Captain
BT I'm so with you on this one. I realize we've been hamstrung by that penalty but good Lord, Jordan Black? Really?
GSF
The Starter
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The frustrating part about the oline is we seem to ignore it year after year. Ramsey, Campbell, and now RG3, they've all been running for their lives back there. the only difference is that RG can run a lot faster, but man he's already taking some bad hits.
Bottom line is the Skins are paying the price for trading away so many draft picks for washed up losers like McNabb and Jamaal Browl. It doesn't help either that we seem to bring in 3 new FA receivers every other season instead of using the resources on less glamorous positions like a solid guard or center.
Bottom line is the Skins are paying the price for trading away so many draft picks for washed up losers like McNabb and Jamaal Browl. It doesn't help either that we seem to bring in 3 new FA receivers every other season instead of using the resources on less glamorous positions like a solid guard or center.
I think everybody wanted them here,including the front office...until they got the rug pulled out from under them.
The only knock I have on them is for letting Smith go to the Raiders.
But then again, everybody reporting from camp was talking about how bad Smith looked in camp....so who knows.....
Lanky Livingston
Guest
Someone posted the numbers - Winston's cap hit this season is $3M, Josh Morgan's cap hit is $4M (or similar). It could have happened.
Exactly. And the team in limited fashion (no Vinny here) could have signed ONE or TWO OL to stretch deals where we could have renegotiated their cap hits to future years after the penalty was absorbed in 2013.
The Redskins gave up far too much for Griffin for them not to invest a portion of the future cap in the line as well.
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The Redskins gave up far too much for Griffin for them not to invest a portion of the future cap in the line as well.
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tshile
Guest
Here's what we've done since Allen and Shanahan got here in terms of the draft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_draft_history
2010 - 3 O linemen
2011 - 1 O lineman
2012 - 3 O linemen
I can't find an easy to read, comprehensive list of free agent signings but we've also brought in free agent O linemen. We've also brought in Undrafted Rookie Free Agent O linemen.
You can argue all day about whether or not a different O lineman should have been picked in those spots. Or whether we shouldn't have done a trade that could have added more. Or whether we should have used a pick in an earlier/later round on that person or a different person all together.
But 7 draft picks spent on O linemen in 3 years, plus all the free agent work, is anything but ignoring the line. They may have missed with the moves they made, but they certainly weren't ignoring the position group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_draft_history
2010 - 3 O linemen
2011 - 1 O lineman
2012 - 3 O linemen
I can't find an easy to read, comprehensive list of free agent signings but we've also brought in free agent O linemen. We've also brought in Undrafted Rookie Free Agent O linemen.
You can argue all day about whether or not a different O lineman should have been picked in those spots. Or whether we shouldn't have done a trade that could have added more. Or whether we should have used a pick in an earlier/later round on that person or a different person all together.
But 7 draft picks spent on O linemen in 3 years, plus all the free agent work, is anything but ignoring the line. They may have missed with the moves they made, but they certainly weren't ignoring the position group.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
I posted about it in another thread, but since the Shanahans arrival, only the Steelers have drafted as many OLinemen as the Redskins.
tshile
Guest
Thats pretty telling. The Steeler's line sucks too
But outside of Trent Williams NONE of those picks were made before the third round. Many were 6th and 7th rounders where the stats are about 15 percent in terms of their success rate in even making an NFL roster.
And yes part of my argument IS that the players added in free agency like Chester, Hicks and via trade in Brown have been disappointing.
Look at the starting 5 here after 3 years of building and tell me we did a good job.
Time to take the blinders off.
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And yes part of my argument IS that the players added in free agency like Chester, Hicks and via trade in Brown have been disappointing.
Look at the starting 5 here after 3 years of building and tell me we did a good job.
Time to take the blinders off.
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tshile
Guest
I think you're misunderstanding the argument I'm making.
Not doing a good job and not bothering to even try are two different issues.
Blinders? Who has blinders on?
No one is suggesting we have a good offensive line; at least that's not how I see it.
tshile
Guest
They've only had 4 picks in the top 2 rounds in 3 years to begin with...
They picked:
Williams
Kerrigan
Jarvis Jenkins
Griffin
so they picked an O lineman, a QB, a LB, and DL. All positions we desperately needed since 2010.
Agreed.
But the pick for LeRibeus should have netted a player closer to contributing. He got drafted as a I thought to be a guard here but now appears mainly to be Montgomery's backup at center.
With the limited number of picks we had we needed to do better than getting a backup center.
We could have signed Jeff Faine who plays for the Bengals as a vet minimum free agent to backup Montgomery and drafted an OG or OT in Round 3, positions of greater immediate need to the offense.
We could also have used the Josh Morgan and Brandon Meriweather free agent dollars and acquired Eric Winston. As indicated by others, Winston's cap hit this year is actually LESS than Morgan for the next 2 years.
Morgan hasn't done jack here yet. He has been less productive than Garcon, Hankerson or even Robinson (Game 1). Meanwhile, he was a big part of helping us lose to the Rams.
He seems to be the king of the 8-10 yard pass on third and 12.
But the pick for LeRibeus should have netted a player closer to contributing. He got drafted as a I thought to be a guard here but now appears mainly to be Montgomery's backup at center.
With the limited number of picks we had we needed to do better than getting a backup center.
We could have signed Jeff Faine who plays for the Bengals as a vet minimum free agent to backup Montgomery and drafted an OG or OT in Round 3, positions of greater immediate need to the offense.
We could also have used the Josh Morgan and Brandon Meriweather free agent dollars and acquired Eric Winston. As indicated by others, Winston's cap hit this year is actually LESS than Morgan for the next 2 years.
Morgan hasn't done jack here yet. He has been less productive than Garcon, Hankerson or even Robinson (Game 1). Meanwhile, he was a big part of helping us lose to the Rams.
He seems to be the king of the 8-10 yard pass on third and 12.
Goaldeje
The Legend
Agreed on Morgan, but I'm not sure I get the hate for Merriweather. I think the FO knew our secondary was a weak spot, so they tried to piece it together with some risky guys. Tanard didn't work out, Merriweather's been injured. Let's reserve judgment on him until he gets on the field.
tshile
Guest
Yeah, after a week of bitching about how terrible our secondary is I cannot even being to fathom how someone would suggest we not have picked up merriweather.
It's completely possible he's going to suck and not improve it, but at this point in time getting Merriweather and Cedric Griffin back is the only hope we have of holding teams to under 35 points a game...
our offense is averaging over 30 points a game through 3 games. we have the 2nd leading rushing attack in the league, and a top 10 offense. Sorry, but offensive line is not our biggest need anymore.
It's completely possible he's going to suck and not improve it, but at this point in time getting Merriweather and Cedric Griffin back is the only hope we have of holding teams to under 35 points a game...
our offense is averaging over 30 points a game through 3 games. we have the 2nd leading rushing attack in the league, and a top 10 offense. Sorry, but offensive line is not our biggest need anymore.
Morgan and Meriweather are questionable players due to injuries (Morgan) and on/off the field behavior (Meriweather).
I would rather have Winston at RT and keep Griffin upright and on the field for the future of the franchise.
That is more important than having what now looks to be a complementary receiver and a safety that was cut by both Bill Belichick and Lovie Smith.
When both Belichick and Smith have you and then let you go at age 26 there is a problem.
And I don't buy Meriweather's argument that the Pats and Bears defenses just didn't accentuate his skills but the one here does.
From what I have read he is a free-lancer like LaVar Arrington used to be and goes 'off script' in trying to make plays on his own.
So, unless Haslett's defense allows players to be where they want and do what they want I don't see how this scheme is any better for him.
I would rather have Winston at RT and keep Griffin upright and on the field for the future of the franchise.
That is more important than having what now looks to be a complementary receiver and a safety that was cut by both Bill Belichick and Lovie Smith.
When both Belichick and Smith have you and then let you go at age 26 there is a problem.
And I don't buy Meriweather's argument that the Pats and Bears defenses just didn't accentuate his skills but the one here does.
From what I have read he is a free-lancer like LaVar Arrington used to be and goes 'off script' in trying to make plays on his own.
So, unless Haslett's defense allows players to be where they want and do what they want I don't see how this scheme is any better for him.
Goaldeje
The Legend
So you're saying the defense might be WORSE with him out there? Damn. I mean... damn.
Alternatively, we can continue to bitch about the Morgan signing, and wait and see on the Merriweather signing.
Alternatively, we can continue to bitch about the Morgan signing, and wait and see on the Merriweather signing.
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