Haskins - Going Forward

[Primus Porcus]

Sensationalized headline that means nothing. Coach speak.
No coach that's serious about rebuild/player development replaces a Qb...basically a rookie, after three games with no regular offseason, in a new offense.
Reporters looking for clicks.

The headline is a bit of a hot take, but I think it's accurate. Rivera made it known that there is a line in the sand. He also made it known that they have not reached that line. I think he meant what he said, and if Haskins is smart (which I think he is), he's going to realize that he can't have 13 more games like he had Sunday. I don't know that it's as 'extreme' as it may read, but it's not inaccurate.

 

[Boone]

Agree. Rivera went out of his way to say there is a ‘line’ and also that the other guys on offense want to win now and deserve better QB play than what we got on Sunday.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Agree. Rivera went out of his way to say there is a ‘line’ and also that the other guys on offense want to win now and deserve better QB play than what we got on Sunday.

So then Rivera is a liar then?
You can’t say “We’re going to build this the right way” and then turn around and go win chasing when you’ve already made reference to this as a developmental year and learning what you’ve got and what you need going forward.
So which is it guys?

 

[MikefromOH]

If you suck at your job every week and don't progress, how much rope do you need before you hang yourself?

He needs to look out for his job as well. Sticking by a QB that isn't getting better isn't really going to help his cause in that regards.

Kyle Allen is on the same rookie pay, has a year experience in the system, and is waiting. if Haskins continues to regress what is the real problem with benching him? We aren't invested in him by any means.

 

[Boone]

DP - why are you asking us brother? Rivera did say a lot of what you just stated on Sunday. And then he turned around on Monday (after reviewing game tape) and made it clear that if Haskins can’t show progression he will sit. Those are his words, not ours.

 

[Win4us]

You can replace Haskins with Allen, Smith or whomever & it will not matter until the o-line & TE positions are fixed. ESPECIALLY for a an inexperienced QB who has only 12 games under his belt. Many stated this last season as well, to no avail.

Things can certainly change for the better as the season progresses but I wouldn’t hold my breath on it. We currently have an o-line ranked 29th in rushing and 30th in pass protection. In other words their play smells worse than a zombie’s ass.

2020 Basic Line Stats: offense | Football Outsiders

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Now throw in our starting TE is currently ranked 43rd in the league, which is dead last btw and it’s a miracle Haskins is getting any production. It doesn’t excuse piss poor passes thrown but sure as hell sheds some light on it. The team can draft the next stud qb with our 1st round pick in April and it won’t matter a bit until this area is addressed imo.

 

[Boone]

I disagree. Allen or even Smith would be far more effective because they are simply more experienced (Smith with a whole career of knowledge and Allen is savvy in this offense). Either guy likely wins last Sunday’s game. I don’t disagree that the OL is inept and we have skill position needs, but that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t immediately be more effective with either of the backups in there. I think we would.

If the goal was to win as many games as possible this season, Haskins would already be on the bench. Weird that that’s not our goal, but it clearly isn’t. I give Dwayne another couple of games and if it doesn’t start clicking by then he will be watching someone else play.

 

[MikefromOH]

They won't likely stare down receivers and throw three interceptions that cost us 3 TDs.

 

[Primus Porcus]

So then Rivera is a liar then?
You can’t say “We’re going to build this the right way” and then turn around and go win chasing when you’ve already made reference to this as a developmental year and learning what you’ve got and what you need going forward.
So which is it guys?

No, the two are not independent of eachother. Rivera and Zampese can be developing Haskins, while also analyzing him. It's up to Haskins to develop with the time / energy they're investing in him. The two are not seperate from each other. Haskins may be the future at QB for the Washington Football Team, but if he's not, the team will go on. Their job gets easier if Haskins proves to be the guy, but they also understand that they need to make that determination. They have benchmarks that they feel he must meet in order to prove he's the guy. They'll do everything in their power to set him up for that success... but if he doesn't reach those benchmarks... so be it. It's a two way street.

 

[Primus Porcus]

They won't likely stare down receivers and throw three interceptions that cost us 3 TDs.

Rivera elaborated on this and it made a lot of sense.

Haskins came out and said he didn't feel he was starting guys down, but the film, and analysts disagree.

Rivera said that what is likely happening (and i'm going by his experience with Haskins here) is that Haskins is in fact making his reads correctly... just too quickly. He's going from read 1 to 2 to 3 so fast that he's watching his 3rd read long enough for the defenders to make a play. HE feels like he's making his progressions but it's happening so fast it's counterproductive. It doesn't pull the safety / LB.

IF this is true, it's coachable. He needs to learn humility though. If reporters / beat guys say "you're staring down your guys" the response is "we will sit down and look at the film and try to get better." Perception is reality, even if there's more to the story.

 

[MikefromOH]

I agree. but, we both saw him doing whatever it was (staring) on all 3 interceptions and a few that were almost.

he also forces throws in to people who are double covered and it is ridiculous.

Alex has been around long enough that he doesn't have that issue consistently. if Haskins cant change that he is in jeopardy of losing his job.

but, Baltimore is not a good test for this. We are not going to do well against them.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I agree. but, we both saw him doing whatever it was (staring) on all 3 interceptions and a few that were almost.

he also forces throws in to people who are double covered and it is ridiculous.

Alex has been around long enough that he doesn't have that issue consistently. if Haskins cant change that he is in jeopardy of losing his job.

but, Baltimore is not a good test for this. We are not going to do well against them.

Absolutely 100%. Just cuz you go through the motions, does not mean then intended outcome. It's likely that on those picks, had he held on the previous read for a second longer, then the WR is no longer double covered or the Safety / LB doesn't have the play on the ball anymore. All things he needs to work on.

 

[Win4us]

They won't likely stare down receivers and throw three interceptions that cost us 3 TDs.

Allen had a 17 td to 16 int ratio with a similar porous line in 2019. I’d guess he most likely would throw the int’s.

Smith I’d give ya, if he made it through the game without getting injured again.

 

[MikefromOH]

Allen had a 17 td to 16 int ratio with a similar porous line in 2019. I’d guess he most likely would throw the int’s.

Smith I’d give ya, if he made it through the game without getting injured again.

Allen isn't currently doing it though. If Haskins was on the bench and Allen was throwing the picks we would have the same conversation.

 

[Boone]

Allen had a 17 td to 16 int ratio with a similar porous line in 2019. I’d guess he most likely would throw the int’s.

Smith I’d give ya, if he made it through the game without getting injured again.

Panthers line allowed him to be sacked 50 times in 12 games. He was running for his life all season. He’s a much better QB than Haskins right now. I sort of wish they’d bench Haskins and you’d see the difference immediately.

 

[DieselPwr44]

There is not anything normal here. No regular offseason or camp,so all norms of evaluation have to be graded differently.
With the softer rules in place, it takes teams until October before they hone in. With a screwed up offseason, it will take longer.
BTW, if Rivera was really concerned with wins, Haskins wouldn’t have started and his time out usage would be different.
Right now, I’d be more concerned with Son of Norv as OC, because he’s done nothing to try and establish an identity on Offense.
Ask yourself this: What is it exactly that this offense hangs it’s hat on?
So far, there’s nothing I can tell.
The rule of thumb used to be a running game and a good TE are a young Qb’s best friend.
They have neither and don’t even attempt to establish a run game to help Haskins out.
He’s got one legit WR and a bunch of UDFAs in the receiving corp with really no left side to the offensive line.
Hopefully, he’s being graded on a curve until they get some decent personnel around him.
If he’s thrown out,say after two more games, just don’t try to remember what these trees look like because it’s the same Wilderness the club has wandered since 1992.

 

[Primus Porcus]

There is not anything normal here. No regular offseason or camp,so all norms of evaluation have to be graded differently.
With the softer rules in place, it takes teams until October before they hone in. With a screwed up offseason, it will take longer.
BTW, if Rivera was really concerned with wins, Haskins wouldn’t have started and his time out usage would be different.
Right now, I’d be more concerned with Son of Norv as OC, because he’s done nothing to try and establish an identity on Offense.
Ask yourself this: What is it exactly that this offense hangs it’s hat on?
So far, there’s nothing I can tell.
The rule of thumb used to be a running game and a good TE are a young Qb’s best friend.
They have neither and don’t even attempt to establish a run game to help Haskins out.
He’s got one legit WR and a bunch of UDFAs in the receiving corp with really no left side to the offensive line.
Hopefully, he’s being graded on a curve until they get some decent personnel around him.
If he’s thrown out,say after two more games, just don’t try to remember what these trees look like because it’s the same Wilderness the club has wandered since 1992.

I imagine they are advanced enough to not be grading this season like other seasons. You're absolutely right that there are things at play here out of the control of Haskins. That doesn't negate progress and development though. If Rivera is happy with Haskins making the RIGHT reads, he's just doing them too fast which leaves him on the 'correct' pass option too long.... which keys the defense and appears to be staring down a player... they can coach that up. There has to be a curve, but there still has to be progress too.

 

[Win4us]

Panthers line allowed him to be sacked 50 times in 12 games. He was running for his life all season. He’s a much better QB than Haskins right now. I sort of wish they’d bench Haskins and you’d see the difference immediately.

Going by that scenario Haskins has been sacked 39 times in 12 games, so similar in that regard. This team needs an actual o-line that can clear bodies out of his and the rb’s path & a TE to bail him out. Like DP stated, unless the staff is grading DH on a curve with EVERYTHING factored in then they’re just spinning their wheels.

Its possible they do end up benching DH and riding the year out with Allen. But if he too stinks up the joint due to a porous line and missing TE what then? Not everything can be fixed in 1 offseason I get it, but for the fan base to deny our shit line, the lack of a TE, & suspect playcalling to boot then the team is destined to rinse repeat until these areas are finally addressed. No matter who’s behind center it’s going to be mediocre to garbage.

edited the games played for Haskins, probably will look up sack rates for each to find a better comparison.

 

[Knightingale]

NBC Sports Washington picked up on something I said in the chat on Sunday (not directly of course, but they're thinking along the same lines)

Even though we were going to lose, it sure looked like everyone else in the East was going to lose too. (Eagles got lucky!)

But it did look like after 3 weeks we were STILL going to be sitting atop the NFC East. And we are indeed.

I still don't see us as a playoff contender, but we're still in the picture, even at 1-2, and Rivera has precedent for this having snuck the Panthers into the playoffs at 7-8-1 a few years back.
Now I do't think Ron is really thinking about making a run at the Superbowl, but it must be a twinkling in the back of his mind that this team could make the playoffs if they can win a dire East. That in itself could be a valuable building tool to this young team.

I could see him saying next year "Guys, we made the playoffs as a young inexperienced team at the start of this journey... Let's see what we can do this year!"

He's trying to change a culture from one of losing to one that expects to win. A playoff berth could go a long way toward that.

As I say... don't think it's happening, but it's possible. The next few games are ROUGH, but he can still evaluate Haskins through them. If by some miracle we're still in the running after that stretch, and Ron thinks we'd have a better chance at a run with Allen or Smith, I could see a change happening. Not sure what that would do exactly for Haskins confidence, but I could see a scenario like that playing out.

 

[Primus Porcus]

NBC Sports Washington picked up on something I said in the chat on Sunday (not directly of course, but they're thinking along the same lines)

Even though we were going to lose, it sure looked like everyone else in the East was going to lose too. (Eagles got lucky!)

But it did look like after 3 weeks we were STILL going to be sitting atop the NFC East. And we are indeed.

I still don't see us as a playoff contender, but we're still in the picture, even at 1-2, and Rivera has precedent for this having snuck the Panthers into the playoffs at 7-8-1 a few years back.
Now I do't think Ron is really thinking about making a run at the Superbowl, but it must be a twinkling in the back of his mind that this team could make the playoffs if they can win a dire East. That in itself could be a valuable building tool to this young team.

I could see him saying next year "Guys, we made the playoffs as a young inexperienced team at the start of this journey... Let's see what we can do this year!"

He's trying to change a culture from one of losing to one that expects to win. A playoff berth could go a long way toward that.

As I say... don't think it's happening, but it's possible. The next few games are ROUGH, but he can still evaluate Haskins through them. If by some miracle we're still in the running after that stretch, and Ron thinks we'd have a better chance at a run with Allen or Smith, I could see a change happening. Not sure what that would do exactly for Haskins confidence, but I could see a scenario like that playing out.

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This is a really good interview with a bit of insight into how Rivera is looking at things.

To this particular point, at 10:12 JP asks Rivera about just this and his answer is kind of interesting.