TomE
The Pro Bowler
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Game Thread: Philadelphia Eagles
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Then again, I may be full of ****.
Hang on there. Just hang on.
TomE
The Pro Bowler
Indeed
TomE
The Pro Bowler
hell of a punt, dammit
Lanky Livingston
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This was the ideal scenario for Philly; catch a week one opponent rusty and off guard, and steal a victory. I still don't see them as much better than a 6-10 team, they just caught us off guard with some ball security issues.
Griffin looked rust-Y! Maybe he should've played some preseason?
Griffin looked rust-Y! Maybe he should've played some preseason?
Jugband McGillicuddy
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Well, having had time to breathe, lower my near-stroke-level blood pressure, and at least BEGIN to think somewhat rationally, I think I'm able to offer what I saw tonight.
First of all, Derek and Mike were right. What appeared to me in the first half to be the inability of RG3 to do the things he was capable of last year, was actually a combination of other factors. The game plan was conservative (and I'll go ahead and say "playing scared" from the coaching staff.) And as those gentlemen pointed out, he didn't "trust" his body yet. As Boone stated, he also wasn't able to step forward in the pocket, due to the pressure the Eagles were getting in the center of the line. My impression that he "couldn't" do the things he used to do, or that he was far less than 100% health-wise, would prove to be wrong in the second half.
In the second half, the "student-body-protect-the-QB" approach was all but abandoned. We saw more aggression. We saw Griffin plant hard and gun those intermediate (and longer) passes. We saw him accelerate, gain chunks of yards, and wisely get out of bounds. He looked like the RG3 we all know and love.
Additionally, we brought more than four rushers defensively. In the first half, we were too afraid to rush up the field, for fear that we'd give up the inside run (which we did anyway.) In the second half, we brought at least 5 with some frequency. I'd like to see blitzes increased dramatically in the Packers game, but it was a start.
IMHO, we saw that playing tentative is detrimental to our efforts to win football games. I think we need to go out, let it hang out, get after teams on both sides of the ball, and do the things we know we can do.
HAIL.
First of all, Derek and Mike were right. What appeared to me in the first half to be the inability of RG3 to do the things he was capable of last year, was actually a combination of other factors. The game plan was conservative (and I'll go ahead and say "playing scared" from the coaching staff.) And as those gentlemen pointed out, he didn't "trust" his body yet. As Boone stated, he also wasn't able to step forward in the pocket, due to the pressure the Eagles were getting in the center of the line. My impression that he "couldn't" do the things he used to do, or that he was far less than 100% health-wise, would prove to be wrong in the second half.
In the second half, the "student-body-protect-the-QB" approach was all but abandoned. We saw more aggression. We saw Griffin plant hard and gun those intermediate (and longer) passes. We saw him accelerate, gain chunks of yards, and wisely get out of bounds. He looked like the RG3 we all know and love.
Additionally, we brought more than four rushers defensively. In the first half, we were too afraid to rush up the field, for fear that we'd give up the inside run (which we did anyway.) In the second half, we brought at least 5 with some frequency. I'd like to see blitzes increased dramatically in the Packers game, but it was a start.
IMHO, we saw that playing tentative is detrimental to our efforts to win football games. I think we need to go out, let it hang out, get after teams on both sides of the ball, and do the things we know we can do.
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I completely agree with this. I was more nervous about this game than I was the dallas or seattle games at the end of last season. It seems that when new coaches come in with new offenses, they have the advantage early. I still remember Spurrier lighting up the Cardinals the first game and thinking how awesome this is going to be. The crash and burn couldn't have been worse the next week.
I expected a rusty RG3. His throws early were off. He wasn't stepping into them, and all around was tentative. That's what I expected until he got his feet wet. His first INT was just a poor decision. The 2nd INT wasn't a great throw, but the defender made a great play to pick that off. 9 out of 10 DBs don't make that INT. I also didn't expect Morris to fumble once and drop a pitch another time. I'm not sure what his problem was tonight, but he did rebound with some good runs later in the game.
I wonder how many more games the Skins will lose this year because the coaching staff is scared to let RG3 play the way we need him to do to win games.
That first half offensive gameplan was obviously designed to keep him in the pocket and did we even run any read-option?
I swear its either all out putting him into ridiculously dangerous situations for no reason (like last year), or like it was the first half.
That first half offensive gameplan was obviously designed to keep him in the pocket and did we even run any read-option?
I swear its either all out putting him into ridiculously dangerous situations for no reason (like last year), or like it was the first half.
Make no mistake about it, either Robert has to be allowed to be the Qb he was last season, or we have to put an O line in front of him meant for a pocket passer. He took far too many big hits last night. Trying to make the ultimate mobile QB stay in the pocket as it breaks down is going to get him killed, and a loosing record for the team.
fansince62
Guest
hmmm. I have a different take.
1) Robert hurt his team. He wasn't ready physically OR mentally. He talked big during the preseason and tried to force the issue. CLEARLY: whatever he did leading up to this game wasn't enough. Will he do the self-examination to understand that in some measure - the outcome rests squarely on his shoulders? Is he mature enough? The process isn't over. He's not magically going to approach mid-season form form from last year by next week. He may even, ultimately, be behind the trajectory of where you'd like a second season QB to pick up from the prior season. for example, can anyone claim, based on last night, that he has improved reading defenses from the pocket? I can't. seems to me he threw a lot of F'd up passes into double and triple coverage.
2) I had a hunch something was going to go awry with Forbath. He's been terrific...no doubt. but if you watched in pre-season, he was hitting more and more of his kicks on a left to right path. Finally caught up with him last night. Let's hope it's just a short-term aberration.
3) The defense....well.....that was my main concern.
- Getting tired of watching Rambo getting faked out of his jock strap. He makes a lot of nice tackles but seems to be developing a reputation of being involved at least once a game in some poor tackling that is part of a scoring or big play. He also, so far, seems near useless on pass defense. Like much of the Skins pass defense, they are closer to the receivers than in years past, but very seldomly does it seem like our guys make a play on the ball.
- How many INTs do we have from pre-season through last night? Only secondary player out there who looks like he is in control of his game play to play is Amerson. That's a fan's pov - not an expert's.
- Pass rush pressure was decent. but, as part of the poor tackling theme, there seemed to me to be several instances of Vick and runners escaping the grasp in the backfield. Rak, for example, crashes down the line a lot and seems to be run around A LOT.
- Do we have linebackers who can cover in the flats? just wondering. age old problem.
- run defense? was there one out there last night? pathetic. don't care if Shady is a great runner. we have stopped great runners before. we certainly don't allow them to set career highs! again, a defense that had no clue what it was doing. Hazlet - this is pointing more and more at you. it's not as though the concepts behind read option are unknown to the Skins.
Some, I imagine, will give the defense a pass given how big a hole the offense dug. I don't. I thought they flat out *ucked. It was embarrassing watching those clowns get eaten alive. They had no clue what they were doing for an entire half. Part of the reason, I suspect, is that if you really think about it, good/close as Kerrigan might be, we really don't have a bona fide star player on defense who can make things happen on his own. we have a bunch of good players one hopes like *ell can mesh well together as a unit. last night they and the coaching staff were clown hatted.
4) Offense
- pass pro was weak IMO. we knew RGIII was going to be tentative and yet the protection was abysmal in the first half - didn't improve much in the second half. the FO is going ot have to give up the dream next season and actually draft some top flight talent in the high rounds to join Trent on the line (same for d-line actually). year after year we go with a line roster strategy that doesn't delver. I get the money part of the deal. I get that we put the priority on the QB and skill players for him to work with. fix the *amn weakness FO!!!!!
- zone blocking wasn't delivering much last night. someone needs to analyze what happened. was alfred moving laterally too much thus allowing defense to catch up? or was the line just not creating the gaps? or, the flip side to the last, did Philly figure out that they could crowd the line because RG just wash't going to be a running or passing threat? don't know. guess this is one area that can only (and should) improve.
- playcalling? not very good - especially some of the stuff that drove me nuts from past years - running plays on long yardage situations. I give them a pass - coaching staff probably couldn't call the gameplan it wanted to call because of Robert.
- can't have turn-overs in what was going to be a high scoring game. they really screwed themselves early on. kinda obvious so no more on that.
- the offense lost this game. the defense lent a helping hand.
5) Goods
- bad as they were, they still could have pulled it out in the second half. they kept in it. too bad the kicker elected to F up; the penalties came at the wrong time; RG threw the pick; too many drives sputtered in the Red Zone. Communicates a certain disorganization and lack of focus to exert one's collective will. that team last night DIDN'T WANT TO WIN. they were beaten like a rug both mentally and physically.
- Helu played well both blocking and running. we still need a change of pace scat back. eventually we're going to have to see if Thomas can be that guy. otherwise, we have two very good grind it out guys. Helu is not the break-away speedster he was when drafted - IMO.
- Reed is a keeper. Smart draft FO! This guy is going to be great.
- Special teams (except Forbath and the one Sav punt) did fine on coverages. Thomas needs to be more aggressive. He looked like he didn't know what he was doing out there at times.
- though I found the defense abysmal, I will concede they held the Iggles in check in the second half to give the offense a shot. we did learn one thing last night: I don't think that up-tempo offense can be run a whole game. the Iggles went conservative in the second half partly because they had a big lead but also because they were getting gassed. My take is that the O-line has some big guys - unless the offense scores quickly, they get tired as well and things even out. so the trick is to hold that O in check for the first quarter or so while building a lead based on a solid running game. you could tell that was what the Skin's plan was - they just couldn't execute it in part because Robert was out to lunch and completely out of synch with his receivers and O-line.
so, I guess this is one to forget. beat GB? not likely. time to re-evaluate. let's hope for 2-2 after the first quarter of the season and enough progress by our QB that we are competitive again with the better teams. the potential is still there - but last night this team looked horrible. disorganized, unfocused, out-classed, out-played, out-thought....in short.....a throwback to all the crap from 1992 to 2011.
yea...I'm toasted. I expected better from the NFCE champs. I'm tired of getting creamed by the Iggles every time we play on national TV. I'm tired of the jeering e-mails I get from relatives. get your *hit together Skins. you embarrassed everyone last night.
1) Robert hurt his team. He wasn't ready physically OR mentally. He talked big during the preseason and tried to force the issue. CLEARLY: whatever he did leading up to this game wasn't enough. Will he do the self-examination to understand that in some measure - the outcome rests squarely on his shoulders? Is he mature enough? The process isn't over. He's not magically going to approach mid-season form form from last year by next week. He may even, ultimately, be behind the trajectory of where you'd like a second season QB to pick up from the prior season. for example, can anyone claim, based on last night, that he has improved reading defenses from the pocket? I can't. seems to me he threw a lot of F'd up passes into double and triple coverage.
2) I had a hunch something was going to go awry with Forbath. He's been terrific...no doubt. but if you watched in pre-season, he was hitting more and more of his kicks on a left to right path. Finally caught up with him last night. Let's hope it's just a short-term aberration.
3) The defense....well.....that was my main concern.
- Getting tired of watching Rambo getting faked out of his jock strap. He makes a lot of nice tackles but seems to be developing a reputation of being involved at least once a game in some poor tackling that is part of a scoring or big play. He also, so far, seems near useless on pass defense. Like much of the Skins pass defense, they are closer to the receivers than in years past, but very seldomly does it seem like our guys make a play on the ball.
- How many INTs do we have from pre-season through last night? Only secondary player out there who looks like he is in control of his game play to play is Amerson. That's a fan's pov - not an expert's.
- Pass rush pressure was decent. but, as part of the poor tackling theme, there seemed to me to be several instances of Vick and runners escaping the grasp in the backfield. Rak, for example, crashes down the line a lot and seems to be run around A LOT.
- Do we have linebackers who can cover in the flats? just wondering. age old problem.
- run defense? was there one out there last night? pathetic. don't care if Shady is a great runner. we have stopped great runners before. we certainly don't allow them to set career highs! again, a defense that had no clue what it was doing. Hazlet - this is pointing more and more at you. it's not as though the concepts behind read option are unknown to the Skins.
Some, I imagine, will give the defense a pass given how big a hole the offense dug. I don't. I thought they flat out *ucked. It was embarrassing watching those clowns get eaten alive. They had no clue what they were doing for an entire half. Part of the reason, I suspect, is that if you really think about it, good/close as Kerrigan might be, we really don't have a bona fide star player on defense who can make things happen on his own. we have a bunch of good players one hopes like *ell can mesh well together as a unit. last night they and the coaching staff were clown hatted.
4) Offense
- pass pro was weak IMO. we knew RGIII was going to be tentative and yet the protection was abysmal in the first half - didn't improve much in the second half. the FO is going ot have to give up the dream next season and actually draft some top flight talent in the high rounds to join Trent on the line (same for d-line actually). year after year we go with a line roster strategy that doesn't delver. I get the money part of the deal. I get that we put the priority on the QB and skill players for him to work with. fix the *amn weakness FO!!!!!
- zone blocking wasn't delivering much last night. someone needs to analyze what happened. was alfred moving laterally too much thus allowing defense to catch up? or was the line just not creating the gaps? or, the flip side to the last, did Philly figure out that they could crowd the line because RG just wash't going to be a running or passing threat? don't know. guess this is one area that can only (and should) improve.
- playcalling? not very good - especially some of the stuff that drove me nuts from past years - running plays on long yardage situations. I give them a pass - coaching staff probably couldn't call the gameplan it wanted to call because of Robert.
- can't have turn-overs in what was going to be a high scoring game. they really screwed themselves early on. kinda obvious so no more on that.
- the offense lost this game. the defense lent a helping hand.
5) Goods
- bad as they were, they still could have pulled it out in the second half. they kept in it. too bad the kicker elected to F up; the penalties came at the wrong time; RG threw the pick; too many drives sputtered in the Red Zone. Communicates a certain disorganization and lack of focus to exert one's collective will. that team last night DIDN'T WANT TO WIN. they were beaten like a rug both mentally and physically.
- Helu played well both blocking and running. we still need a change of pace scat back. eventually we're going to have to see if Thomas can be that guy. otherwise, we have two very good grind it out guys. Helu is not the break-away speedster he was when drafted - IMO.
- Reed is a keeper. Smart draft FO! This guy is going to be great.
- Special teams (except Forbath and the one Sav punt) did fine on coverages. Thomas needs to be more aggressive. He looked like he didn't know what he was doing out there at times.
- though I found the defense abysmal, I will concede they held the Iggles in check in the second half to give the offense a shot. we did learn one thing last night: I don't think that up-tempo offense can be run a whole game. the Iggles went conservative in the second half partly because they had a big lead but also because they were getting gassed. My take is that the O-line has some big guys - unless the offense scores quickly, they get tired as well and things even out. so the trick is to hold that O in check for the first quarter or so while building a lead based on a solid running game. you could tell that was what the Skin's plan was - they just couldn't execute it in part because Robert was out to lunch and completely out of synch with his receivers and O-line.
so, I guess this is one to forget. beat GB? not likely. time to re-evaluate. let's hope for 2-2 after the first quarter of the season and enough progress by our QB that we are competitive again with the better teams. the potential is still there - but last night this team looked horrible. disorganized, unfocused, out-classed, out-played, out-thought....in short.....a throwback to all the crap from 1992 to 2011.
yea...I'm toasted. I expected better from the NFCE champs. I'm tired of getting creamed by the Iggles every time we play on national TV. I'm tired of the jeering e-mails I get from relatives. get your *hit together Skins. you embarrassed everyone last night.
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Ax
Guest
Little overreacting my brother. IMO
Lots of valid points, but I didn't find it worthy of a full autopsy.
It'll have to continue for me to believe it wasn't just a bad episode of The Twilight Zone.
Lots of valid points, but I didn't find it worthy of a full autopsy.
It'll have to continue for me to believe it wasn't just a bad episode of The Twilight Zone.
fansince62
Guest
not so sure. is that the norm? of course not. it will be corrected - though we don't know how long it will take.
I'm just chapped by the fact that the supposed division champs played so horribly. for a moment there - I was having flashbacks to Rex led teams!
In the end, who wants to watch that kinda buffoonery? they just didn't look like a professional team...win or lose. that's what bugs me most.
I'm just chapped by the fact that the supposed division champs played so horribly. for a moment there - I was having flashbacks to Rex led teams!
In the end, who wants to watch that kinda buffoonery? they just didn't look like a professional team...win or lose. that's what bugs me most.
tshile
Guest
This reads as though you think someone other than Griffin has made it a point that Griffin should be a pocket-only passer and not run as much?
Lanky Livingston
Guest
They were running read-option down by 20 points in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Like, um guys, that's not going to work now.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
I'm frustrated with a few things about last night:
1) Conditioning. The defense looked winded after the first couple series of Philly running the no-huddle. You expected this, everyone on the planet expected this - how can you not be ready for it? Run extra conditioning to prepare for it! That kills me - its the easiest thing to do to get ready for a team like this, and they don't do it.
2) Playcalling. As FS pointed out, it was very frustrating at times. You've had an entire offseason to prepare, and that was the first-half game plan you called? Yeah they didn't have a lot of time with the early turnovers, but that looked like street ball. The second half offense was called much better, but then again they were going up against a prevent D.
3) Griffin's knee. It did not look healthy to me. Lewis and Young were talking about it pregame, how there were some indicators that said to them he was not ready, such as not picking up the knee when running. To me, it looked like a guy who was playing a few weeks early, and I think maybe he should have been kept out til after the bye week. Also, was I just imagining him having a slight limp after several plays?
1) Conditioning. The defense looked winded after the first couple series of Philly running the no-huddle. You expected this, everyone on the planet expected this - how can you not be ready for it? Run extra conditioning to prepare for it! That kills me - its the easiest thing to do to get ready for a team like this, and they don't do it.
2) Playcalling. As FS pointed out, it was very frustrating at times. You've had an entire offseason to prepare, and that was the first-half game plan you called? Yeah they didn't have a lot of time with the early turnovers, but that looked like street ball. The second half offense was called much better, but then again they were going up against a prevent D.
3) Griffin's knee. It did not look healthy to me. Lewis and Young were talking about it pregame, how there were some indicators that said to them he was not ready, such as not picking up the knee when running. To me, it looked like a guy who was playing a few weeks early, and I think maybe he should have been kept out til after the bye week. Also, was I just imagining him having a slight limp after several plays?
tshile
Guest
Agreed. I think Griffin was physically fine and ready to go, but he didn't want to play in preseason (you can cite his "i want to play" going into week 3 but that was a load of bull**** after he spent all training camp calling preseason 'unnecessary,' saying he didn't need to play it, he obviously changed his tune for PR purposes) and so last night the first half of our opening game on national tv was his preseason. He hurt the team, though I don't think he intended to he was just entirely too cocky and arrogant. I can also do without him making the entire pregame all about him; you would have been excused for thinking it was Robert Griffin III vs The Eagles watching player introductions last night...
But it'll pass. He's not stupid and I don't think the problems are physical. He just needs to realize he hasn't yet accomplished anything of note. He's not a 12 year vet with super bowl rings and NFL MVP's. He's a 2nd year qb coming off an injury. Vince Young won rookie of the year too...
Rambo's got mental problems. We've been talking about it all preseason. Bad penalties and bad angles are mental issues, so it's not surprising it transfers to his lost-in-coverage issues. To me this is a much, much bigger deal than how Griffin played - by the end of the game Griffin looked like he shook the rust off, I don't think Rambo has the mental fortitude to make that transition over 4 games much less 2 1/2 quarters...
All in all I was actually happy with the defense. The eagles should have had 50+ points that game, the defense held them to 33 and put us in a spot to possibly win in the 4th quarter. The offense left them out the dry and it showed. The Defense even started us out with the lead... You just can't ask for anymore than what the defense did when your offense leaves them out to dry so badly.
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