Fire Shanahan on Tuesday November 26th at 10am!

I wish hiring a new coach would cure our problems. Seems it has gotten to the point where we get a new coach and 3-4 years later we are bringing in someone new. I am not saying Shanahan is the answer. Problem is I don't think there is an easy answer for how pathetic we've become.
 
Yusuf06 said:
I'm pretty much over Shanny too. However after our experiment with the Ole Ball Coach :puke: I doubt there's much interest in college coaches. What really scares me though is that Snyder might decide that since this hasn't worked he could do just as well with the previous hand puppet as GM model. Now that's the stuff of which nightmares are made.
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Elephant said:
Yusuf, I am not sold Snyder will go there. I think (HOPE) he has matured enough to realize he cannot do it. It's time to hire someone to build this team the right way. I am just not sure if the "right" way is something that will benefit the current crop of players. Will we bring in a tough nose run the football guy as coach? If so, there will be a lot of rebuilding. Does the new GM bring in a spread style coach? I just don't know, but I strongly feel we need to blow it up now.
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riggins44 said:
I wish hiring a new coach would cure our problems. Seems it has gotten to the point where we get a new coach and 3-4 years later we are bringing in someone new. I am not saying Shanahan is the answer. Problem is I don't think there is an easy answer for how pathetic we've become.
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You can't keep the status quo. It will get our QB killed at any moment.

As for the college coaches mentioned, both have extensive NFL experience. Shaw is an offensive genius who has coached RBs, WRs, and QBs (think Andrew Luck), and has a lot of success with his resume. Ditto for O'Brien. Neither one would be a Spurrier type of hire. But yes, we do need a football GM as well.
 
Im gonna say the same thing Ive said all along, you give a guy a chance but if he shows that its a pattern, that he isnt gonna change, then it doesnt matter how long you wait, he aint gonna change.

shanny is what he is, a good offensive mind who cannot build a team. we need a guy who can build a team.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
You can't keep the status quo. It will get our QB killed at any moment.

As for the college coaches mentioned, both have extensive NFL experience. Shaw is an offensive genius who has coached RBs, WRs, and QBs (think Andrew Luck), and has a lot of success with his resume. Ditto for O'Brien. Neither one would be a Spurrier type of hire. But yes, we do need a football GM as well.
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BB, I agree with what your saying except for one small fear. The fear I have is if Snyder cleans house then we will see Vinny back as GM. If Vinny comes back we are doomed.

Do you think Snyder would bring in a "true" football GM? If so, I have no problem bringing in a new coaching staff.
 
riggins44 said:
BB, I agree with what your saying except for one small fear. The fear I have is if Snyder cleans house then we will see Vinny back as GM. If Vinny comes back we are doomed.

Do you think Snyder would bring in a "true" football GM? If so, I have no problem bringing in a new coaching staff.
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I do think that Dan Snyder finally gets it and will keep Bruce Allen around. He knows how Redskins fans feel about Vinnius Cerratus and there will be no going back in that direction. Like others have said, Coach Shanahan has all but lost this team and that spells the end for him. Bruce Allen is pretty savvy, so he will make himself to be seen as the one who is making these calls after the season is over - that's just a guess on my part.

As for the two men that I have mentioned as coaching candidates, here is a breakdown.

David Shaw:
- Played at Stanford under Dennis Green and Bill Walsh.
- Coached at Western Washington University.
- Oakland Raiders quality control from 1998–2000, QB coach in 2001 - helped to transform Rich Gannon into a Pro Bowler.
- Wide Receivers coach for the Ravens, 2002-2005. Elevated the game of Derrick Mason (new personal record in catches) and Mark Clayton (Ravens rookie record)
- Univ. of San Diego, 2006. Jim Harbaugh named him offensive coordinator. Led team to 11-1 record. San Diego led the nation (Div. 1-AA) in total offense, scoring offense, and passing offense.
- Joined Harbaugh at Stanford and continued as offensive coordinator. Coach QBs, WRs, and RBs too. Team record 461 points in 2009, then 524 points in 2010. Coached Toby Gearhart to Heisman runnerup in '09. Coached Andrew Luck to Heisman runnerup in 2011.
- Head coach at Stanford, 2011 to the present. Currently leading PAC-12 North Division with a 9-2 record, No. 8 national ranking. Probable BCS bowl berth.
Age: 41

Bob O'Brien:
- Graduate of Brown Univ. LB and TE coach for two years.
- Georgia Tech GA, OC/QB, RB coach, 1995-2002.
- Maryland, RB coach from 2003-2004.
- Duke, OC/QB coach from 2005-2006.
- New England Pats, Asst., WR, OC/QB coach from 2007-2011.
- Head coach at Penn St. 2012 to the present.
Age: 44
 
That is why I am looking at NFL experience, offensive minded coaches, and the successes that they have enjoyed. Coach Gibbs had a similar resume to what Shaw has today. If the Redskins are in the market for a new HC, don't be surprised if they make a strong run at him.

Another factor for Shaw. He likes the big, burly offensive linemen who have the athleticism to provide huge yardage on the ground and in the air.
 
Why does Bruce Allen have no responsibility for our current situation? Redskins fans constantly talk this guy up, but I'm not sure most of us even know exactly what it is that he does on a daily basis. If he's such a genius, why are we where we are? Is Mike Shanahan the only one who has any influence on the team - because that's how it sounds here?

Other than a Redskins friendly last name, what has Bruce Allen done that makes him indispensable?
 
I think all of the media and fan hullabaloo assuming Shanahan is a goner is going to be proven dead wrong. I've already confessed that I have the urge like most Redskins fans to 'blow it up', but you don't base decisions like this on emotion. If Shanahan verbalized a reasonable plan to right the ship, I'll bet you that he gets another year or two. And it won't be because of Snyder ( who is susceptible to public opinion and player griping) , but because Allen tells him to stay the course.
 
Mike Shanahan has a lot of experience as a HC. That is not working out too well. Same for Marty (but he did deserve more time). Zorn had been in the NFL since forever. The last successful HC elsewhere to come to the Redskins was George Allen. That model is forty years old and hasn't worked since then.
 
Boone said:
Why does Bruce Allen have no responsibility for our current situation? Redskins fans constantly talk this guy up, but I'm not sure most of us even know exactly what it is that he does on a daily basis. If he's such a genius, why are we where we are? Is Mike Shanahan the only one who has any influence on the team - because that's how it sounds here?

Other than a Redskins friendly last name, what has Bruce Allen done that makes him indispensable?
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His decisions are more on the business side of football operations and PR. He is a great cap guy (sans the cap penalty :) ) and is very good in the PR game. All football decisions reside with our HC.
 
The Saints found Sean Payton and the Ravens found Harbaugh. These guys are out there. You need a GM that can properly evaluate other staffs to see the up and comers and evaluate which ones can translate their X's and O's skills to leading a TEAM and being a capable field general.

You won't see Cerrato back here for the reason that Snyder I think has learned his lesson. He needs to have a recognized GM as head of the football operation, for one it prevents him from being the primary focus of fan discontent if things don't go well :)

I don't see Snyder as being a Jerry Jones that is wedded to an approach for life as owner. He has had control, shared control and given control to others. In other words I think he is legitimately trying to produce a winning formula.

This time around I think we need a YOUNGER coach who has not already won a Super Bowl as HC somewhere else to come in and put in the 12-14 hour days that Payton and the Harbaughs do to build their clubs into winners.

When you look at the history there have only been a few coaches that have managed to get TWO teams to the Super Bowl in recent times, Dick Vermeil with the Eagles in 1980 and Rams in 1999 and Bill Parcells in 1986, 1990 with the Giants and 1996with the Patriots.

Jimmy Johnson, George Seifert, Mike Ditka, etc. have all failed in translating success to their second teams over the years.

We need to go in another direction.

And that means no Bill Cowher, no Mike McCarthy (if available), no Jon Gruden.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
His decisions are more on the business side of football operations and PR. He is a great cap guy (sans the cap penalty :) ) and is very good in the PR game. All football decisions reside with our HC.
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He's at the table for every major decision made by the Redskins - I guarantee you that. I don't buy that he's just a PR/financials guy. My only point is that he gets a total pass as if it's everyone except him that impacts the success or lack of it with this team. People are very selective I who they choose to lame.
 
Bruce Allen goes and gets all of his former players in Tampa Bay. That's his biggest pipeline for this club. You judge the results:

Dezmon Briscoe
EJ Biggers
Tanard Jackson
Jeremy Trueblood
Philip Buchanon

The only keeper in the bunch has been Forbath, who was last with Tampa after being released by Dallas.

Those are the ones from memory, but if I went back over the rosters for the past 4 years I bet I could find some others from TB.
 
I was also curious on how much blame can go to the scouting staff as well. I mean id think Mike has to have some kind of evaluation system in place before it even hits his desk...right?
 
BT, he did the same thing at Tampa Bay when bringing in a few Raiders and that includes the HC. It produced a SB winner. However, I do think that his talents are not as football mind, just on the business side and PR. His strengths there are proven.

Not concerned with the Bucs players that came our way - we had no other choice with the cap constraints. The team needed bodies at a low cost.
 
I would swap Jon Gruden out for Shanahan in a heartbeat. I just love his fire and toughness. On an unrelated note, my iPhone constantly auto-corrects Shanahan to 'Shamahan'. Hmmm?
 
Boone said:
Why's that?
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To be fair I'm not we'll informed on coaches and the prospects out there :)

It just seems like more of the same. Winning a super bowl is hard. Winning multiple is harder. With different Qb's it is almost unprecedented, and doing it with different organizations is just as hard... I'm sick of the 'this guy did it before, let's try him here' approach.

Of course, I said the same things about Shanahan and I'm now one of his defenders. So what do I know?
 
That's an interesting stat about hiring old Super Bowl coaches.
I wonder if you look at the whole history, how many previous SB winners, were even close to being as successful, when hired and recycled by another team ? Even hall of famers Gibbs, Parcells didn't do so well the 2nd time around

In fact, I can only think of the complete opposite cases - Vermeil was unsuccessful in Philly the first time, then won his first SB when he was a re-tread coach. Same with Bellichek. Gruden himself was a re-tread when he won with TB.

Seems like it's more than just the coach, but being in the right environment. Not sayiing it's luck, just that there's so many more factors.
 
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