Devin Thomas Cut

[Elephant]

...disagree with the latter point. fully hoping AA does well.....he will have a role. I have argued - and no one has countered - that the way modern offenses are now being built and how the best receivers in the league are used...

You have made that point abundantly clear! I have been following this thread for a while now and I have to say, you are a stubborn man f62!

My point is this, you gave a fairly decent list of larger talented receivers. Of those larger receivers you named, only 2 of them have more catches than Santana Moss. In fact, not one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL is more than an inch taller than Armstrong, the player you seem to have so much trouble with.

I think you are correct to assume that a larger receiver is more to the liking of NFL execs, but how many of those big talented receivers are there out there?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

yes...but in all your responses....I fail to see one that addresses my assertion about modern offenses and the trend to bigger, stronger X and Z receivers.

I responded to that in the other thread, and others have pointed out the success of smaller WRs in the NFL.

 

[Neophyte]

I have argued - and no one has countered - that the way modern offenses are now being built and how the best receivers in the league are used (with some exceptions like Steve Smith) - the obvious trend is toward bigger, faster wideouts. there are things you can do with these kinds of receivers that you can't do with the smaller variety. that is why Ceratto drafted those two second rounders. we don't have any of these kinds of receivers - it would be nice, would it not, to have at least one given how erratic Donovan's accuracy has ALWAYS been. One guy who you can just toss it up there and he can go get it. one guy who could really assist our anemic running game. one guy who would demand attention from opposing DCs. you think DCs gameplan any of our wideouts? I doubt it. Santana would be the most likely and he is aging and way too inconsistent.

Actually, I countered here. And for an example, I would point out Armstrong's TD last week. That was all scheme and defense recognition. It did not require a WR of any particular size or even speed to do it. The kid ran the right route and did it perfectly. For another example, I'd point to the fade run to Armstrong in week 1 v the Cowboys. I keep hearing everyone say you need a Moss type to run that and it can't be done with smaller receivers. Funny, but Armstrong's size was not why that play didn't succeed. He just dropped it and my guess is that wouldn't happen now that he has a few balls under his belt. I think it was jitters more than anything that kept him from catching the first one.

Might it be easier to do it like everyone else? Perhaps. Might it also make it easier on everyone else to defend if you use your WRs just like every other team in the league? I think so. I would actually rather see the team go their own way and be something no one sees every week so they have to seriously work to defend us.

 

[Sam Hill]

Sonny Jurgesen on the radio a few minutes ago, referencing the emergence of Anthony Armstrong:

"..I think that's the reason they were willing to let Devin Thomas go, because you have a guy here (Armstrong) who wants to play, and do the right thing, and understands the offense."

Remember that Sonny has watched DT practice probably hundreds of times.

 

[fansince62]

Actually, I countered here. And for an example, I would point out Armstrong's TD last week. That was all scheme and defense recognition. It did not require a WR of any particular size or even speed to do it. The kid ran the right route and did it perfectly. For another example, I'd point to the fade run to Armstrong in week 1 v the Cowboys. I keep hearing everyone say you need a Moss type to run that and it can't be done with smaller receivers. Funny, but Armstrong's size was not why that play didn't succeed. He just dropped it and my guess is that wouldn't happen now that he has a few balls under his belt. I think it was jitters more than anything that kept him from catching the first one.

Might it be easier to do it like everyone else? Perhaps. Might it also make it easier on everyone else to defend if you use your WRs just like every other team in the league? I think so. I would actually rather see the team go their own way and be something no one sees every week so they have to seriously work to defend us.

One play is a valid sample set?

 

[fansince62]

Actually, I countered here. And for an example, I would point out Armstrong's TD last week. That was all scheme and defense recognition. It did not require a WR of any particular size or even speed to do it. The kid ran the right route and did it perfectly. For another example, I'd point to the fade run to Armstrong in week 1 v the Cowboys. I keep hearing everyone say you need a Moss type to run that and it can't be done with smaller receivers. Funny, but Armstrong's size was not why that play didn't succeed. He just dropped it and my guess is that wouldn't happen now that he has a few balls under his belt. I think it was jitters more than anything that kept him from catching the first one.

Might it be easier to do it like everyone else? Perhaps. Might it also make it easier on everyone else to defend if you use your WRs just like every other team in the league? I think so. I would actually rather see the team go their own way and be something no one sees every week so they have to seriously work to defend us.

It's not just "doing it our way" (which incidentally hasn't been very productive thus far)...it's also about what changes in defense dictate. I agree that the Shanahans' scheme can be good and has produced results at times. I have been trying to get across the point that they nevertheless lose many options simply because they don't have the personnel - an issue the balance of other teams in the league are striving to follow...and a pattern that has resulted in most of the best receivers in the league fitting this physical profile (advanced as a necessary but not sufficient condition).

time to put this thread to bed!

 

[fansince62]

Sonny Jurgesen on the radio a few minutes ago, referencing the emergence of Anthony Armstrong:

"..I think that's the reason they were willing to let Devin Thomas go, because you have a guy here (Armstrong) who wants to play, and do the right thing, and understands the offense."

Remember that Sonny has watched DT practice probably hundreds of times.

emergence? dude...he has seven friggin catches and one TD. he hasn't done XXXX yet. I hope we are sitting here next Summer excited about moving his fantastic "rookie" season into the next season.......but he hasn't done all that much yet. let's wait and see how defenses adapt before going overboard. folks like Sonny - and the media generally - are always going to spin things like this beyond their immediate import. it's partially their job to sell the fantasy to the fans.

 

[Sam Hill]

emergence? dude...he has seven friggin catches and one TD. he hasn't done XXXX yet.

Sorry, 62 - 'emergence' was my term. It doesn't mean anybody thinks that he's headed for the Hall of Fame, it refers to his rising from the ranks of the backups to a position as a starting wide receiver. But we can use any expression you prefer.

How's the word "coronation" look to you?

Anyhow, let's not argue semantics - not when there are so many other things we can argue about: like your fiendish, diabolical plan to get Shanahan fired so you can take his job.

Besides, the main point stands: Devin's lack of dedication to his craft cost him his job. Shanahan's said so, Sonny's offered corroborating testimony, and DT himself has copped to the charge. So you'll need to find new evidence of Shanny's incompetence, if you're as serious about supplanting him as you seem to be.

 

[fansince62]

Sorry, 62 - 'emergence' was my term. It doesn't mean anybody thinks that he's headed for the Hall of Fame, it refers to his rising from the ranks of the backups to a position as a starting wide receiver. But we can use any expression you prefer.

How's the word "coronation" look to you?

Anyhow, let's not argue semantics - not when there are so many other things we can argue about: like your fiendish, diabolical plan to get Shanahan fired so you can take his job.

Besides, the main point stands: Devin's lack of dedication to his craft cost him his job. Shanahan's said so, Sonny's offered corroborating testimony, and DT himself has copped to the charge. So you'll need to find new evidence of Shanny's incompetence, if you're as serious about supplanting him as you seem to be.

no..what was basically said was DT didn't conform to whatever expectations/demands Shanahan was making. there's a difference. I reiterate - this was as much about culture as anything else. the irony is that you or I would go high and right if our bosses tried to dictate to us what we did with our spare time. there's more going on here than meets the eye. but it's done now and we can live with AA who...by all appearances...is as big a TD machine as DT was!

 

[Elephant]

no..what was basically said was DT didn't conform to whatever expectations/demands Shanahan was making. there's a difference. I reiterate - this was as much about culture as anything else. the irony is that you or I would go high and right if our bosses tried to dictate to us what we did with our spare time. there's more going on here than meets the eye. but it's done now and we can live with AA who...by all appearances...is as big a TD machine as DT was!

Where are you getting your info to assert, "what was basically said"? From every account I have read, Thomas admitted he was not professional enough and that he would take that forward with him.

You're beating a dead horse here. You will never agree with anything anyone else says in this regard. You are too set in your ways, so why continue to belabor this? You will not change our minds nor will we change your's.

DT is gone, he was not good enough to make it in this coach's eyes. If you look at someone like Randy Moss, he went to a new team and made a difference in his 1st game with his new team. Do you honestly think DT will make the same sort of impact in Carolina? Come on Al, drop this ridiculous campaign against Shanahan's ego and accept your own ego is likely clouding your judgement here. He is an NFL coach who has won 2 Super Bowls. Regardless of how he did it, he did it. You are an internet pundit with little true insight into the reasoning behind the move. Can we move on?

 

[fansince62]

Where are you getting your info to assert, "what was basically said"? From every account I have read, Thomas admitted he was not professional enough and that he would take that forward with him.

You're beating a dead horse here. You will never agree with anything anyone else says in this regard. You are too set in your ways, so why continue to belabor this? You will not change our minds nor will we change your's.

DT is gone, he was not good enough to make it in this coach's eyes. If you look at someone like Randy Moss, he went to a new team and made a difference in his 1st game with his new team. Do you honestly think DT will make the same sort of impact in Carolina? Come on Al, drop this ridiculous campaign against Shanahan's ego and accept your own ego is likely clouding your judgement here. He is an NFL coach who has won 2 Super Bowls. Regardless of how he did it, he did it. You are an internet pundit with little true insight into the reasoning behind the move. Can we move on?

no...you're being very selective in what you chose to remember. most often...Thomas had stated he didn't know why he was in Shanahan's "doghouse". He felt he had made the effort, was making plays, etc., etc. Might not have been the case....but that is what he said - what don't you get about that? After being released and picked up (i.e., the Redskins not getting a f'ing thing out of yet another high draft pick) he then made the expected public statements about rededicating himself, working that much harder, blah blah blah.

ummm...since we all get to play amateur psychologist: the gain on your understanding is set too low.....you aren't hearing/listening to everything in the conversation. just coachspeak cliches.

as for my opinion on Shanahan's ego....sorry you feel differently about the matter. then again...your opinion in that matter is a tangent.

finally....for the fifteenth million f'ing time: my theme all along has been the makeup of this roster at the wideout position and how that correlates to what current defenses are driving and how most teams are responding. it's an obvious trend.

that Shanahan couldn't draw value out of what HE HIMSELF HAS SAID IS A TALENTED RECEIVER speaks to two things - DT's inability to get squared away and Shanahan's leadership failure. There's always two sides to EVERY human interaction.

and pls...the ad hominems...grow tedious.

 

[Elephant]

no...you're being very selective in what you chose to remember. most often...Thomas had stated he didn't know why he was in Shanahan's "doghouse". He felt he had made the effort, was making plays, etc., etc. Might not have been the case....but that is what he said. After being released and picked up (i.e., the Redskins not getting a f'ing thing out of yet another high draft pick) he then made the expected public statements about rededicating himself, working that much harder, blah blah blah.

OK, so I don't get this...I am being selective because I chose the most recent statement from a young man who could have maintained ignorance about being in the doghouse and flown off the handle about how he was right and Shanahan was wrong but decided to accept he was the problem, not Shanahan?

Yet, you choose a statement that was said before his release and I am being selective?

Yes, it is frustrating getting nothing out of a high draft pick. But, if I understand you correctly, we should have kept a low producing malcontent who just happens to have all the right physical characteristics?

You are still beating the same old horse here my friend. He's gone, you've made your point, move on!

 

[fansince62]

OK, so I don't get this...I am being selective because I chose the most recent statement from a young man who could have maintained ignorance about being in the doghouse and flown off the handle about how he was right and Shanahan was wrong but decided to accept he was the problem, not Shanahan?

Yet, you choose a statement that was said before his release and I am being selective?

Yes, it is frustrating getting nothing out of a high draft pick. But, if I understand you correctly, we should have kept a low producing malcontent who just happens to have all the right physical characteristics?

You are still beating the same old horse here my friend. He's gone, you've made your point, move on!

nooooooo...

1) He made the other statement. Excuse me...statements. He said it more than once. That is a fact.

2) Your criteria for "truth" is whatever occurs most recently? that's it? that's the core of your position?

3) No...that is not what I have said in this and other threads.

- the trend for current offenses is toward bigger, stronger wideouts who have leaping ability and blocking skills. maong the top receivers in the league these days...the balance falls toward the bigger receivers

- DT being rls'd meant that the roster didn't have anyone with at least the physical attributes. this is a gap and has implications for the sorts of playcalls that can be planned & executed

- hard to judge on performance since he never got on the field in pre-season to demonstrate what he could do in game conditions in the new scheme

- in my estimation, given what we all read in the press, this was also about a coach's einability to cross a cultural divide. you can agree/disagree. won't change my intuition.

As for the ego input..as posted before...take it or leave it. One person's "my way or the highway" is another person's ego.

 

[Elephant]

nooooooo...

1) He made the other statement. Excuse me...statements. He said it more than once. That is a fact.

2) Your criteria for "truth" is whatever occurs most recently? that's it? that's the core of your position?

3) No...that is not what I have said in this and other threads.

- the trend for current offenses is toward bigger, stronger wideouts who have leaping ability and blocking skills. maong the top receivers in the league these days...the balance falls toward the bigger receivers

- DT being rls'd meant that the roster didn't have anyone with at least the physical attributes. this is a gap and has implications for the sorts of playcalls that can be planned & executed

- hard to judge on performance since he never got on the field in pre-season to demonstrate what he could do in game conditions in the new scheme

- in my estimation, given what we all read in the press, this was also about a coach's einability to cross a cultural divide. you can agree/disagree. won't change my intuition.

As for the ego input..as posted before...take it or leave it. One person's "my way or the highway" is another person's ego.

My point is this: What can you do about the situation about Thomas' release now? Moan and create some attention to yourself because of what you believe? You are beating a dead horse. If I took the time, I could go through your posts in this thread and others to find you make the same claim over and over and over and over and over...

I think you have made yourself perfectly clear!

The problem is, your intuition is not fact. You have no basis for your claims other than your intuition. Thomas made some claims about being in the doghouse, citing a lack of understanding. His most recent comments were that he did understand now after he was released. It clarifies an understanding that was not there previously. In this case, I would say the most recent comment is the one we should use to base our understanding of the situation. It clarifies things for most of us, just not you apparently.

We get that the prototypical receiver should be 6'4" tall weighing about 215-220 pounds and can run a 4.4 second 40. You realize that Brandon Marshall is the only receiver in the top 10 who is both over 6' and weighs more than 200 pounds? Well, Dallas Clark is there too, but he is a TE. But as far as WR, Santana Moss is in the top 10, does he meet your criteria? We have a top 10 receiver on the squad! Of the others in the top 10, Roddy White weighs 212, Jabar Gaffney is 6' 2". Not one of the other 6 receivers weighs more than 200 or is more than 6'. Anthony Armstrong, who is emerging as another option for McNabb, not a Pro Bowler just an option, is 6' and weighs just under 200.

Here's the reason for the ego comment, a comment I should probably not have made, my apologies. What I see here is that you are saying your intuition is the basis for us believing you know better than Shanahan why Devin Thomas was released. You're saying he shouldn't have been released. The coach has spent the last 6 months with this young man. You have followed from afar. Unless you are privy to practices, how could you possibly make a claim so concrete about the dynamics of this situation? "He was never given the chance." You can't! You have even admitted it is your intuition. We should all trust your intuition?

 

[Sarge]

Y'all know this guys been gone over a week now, right

 

[fansince62]

My point is this: What can you do about the situation about Thomas' release now? Moan and create some attention to yourself because of what you believe? You are beating a dead horse. If I took the time, I could go through your posts in this thread and others to find you make the same claim over and over and over and over and over...

yea...over and over cuz you aren't comprehending.

either way...I had to laugh: "Moan and create some attention to yourself because of what you believe?". This speaks to intent which you don't have a clue about. It also suggests what your real concerns are.

my advice? don't get your panty's all twisted in a knot. you made your point. I have communicated mine. we disagreed and argued ad nauseum through multiple posts.

you appear to have spent a lot of time around dead horses.....has this impacted your world view? does every thought process you happen to disagree with strike you as inert? are all opinions you disagree with sourced in egotistical plays for attention? I must concede...that is a convenient psychological prop for addressing life's challenges!

whoops...almost forgot...as for DT...yea...he is gone. At the time I started the threads he had just been rls'd then signed immediately after clearing waivers. you're right on that account - he is history!

 

[Elephant]

yea...over and over cuz you aren't comprehending.

either way...I had to laugh: "Moan and create some attention to yourself because of what you believe?". This speaks to intent which you don't have a clue about. It also suggests what your real concerns are.

my advice? don't get your panty's all twisted in a knot. you made your point. I have communicated mine. we disagreed and argued ad nauseum through multiple posts.

you appear to have spent a lot of time around dead horses.....has this impacted your world view? does every thought process you happen to disagree with strike you as inert? are all opinions you disagree with sourced in egotistical plays for attention? I must concede...that is a convenient psychological prop for addressing life's challenges!

I am not going into further attacks against you. I apologized for bringing your ego into it. I meant it. But you are making claims you cannot possibly support. I provided data that suggests your assertion about the prototypical receiver is incorrect, even if it is ideal. I also provided logical reasoning to suggest you cannot possibly know better than the head coach of this football team, when you say DT shouldn't have been released, yet you claim your intuition is quantitative reasoning when it certainly is not.

I'm done!

Hail to the Redskins!

 

[fansince62]

el....per our PMs...you can stick it up your.....just kidding!

you're alright man. I take responsibility for the dynamic. whatever went on...that is irrelevant to enjoying thebig change from the last sveral years.... .....

 

[fansince62]

I am not going into further attacks against you. I apologized for bringing your ego into it. I meant it. But you are making claims you cannot possibly support. I provided data that suggests your assertion about the prototypical receiver is incorrect, even if it is ideal. I also provided logical reasoning to suggest you cannot possibly know better than the head coach of this football team, when you say DT shouldn't have been released, yet you claim your intuition is quantitative reasoning when it certainly is not.

I'm done!

Hail to the Redskins!

but.......on the modern receiver I know I am right. The experts all point to it...the list is overwhelming. Most of the elite receivers in the league are bigger with great leaping abilities and strength. offenses around the league have been steadily moving to these sorts of receivers over the last decade. there are plenty of football books out there that describe where the NFL has been heading with repsect to the X, Y and Z receivers.

anywho...enjoy your day! I'm already thinkin ahead to the Gints game - that's gonna be the make/break game in my mind.

 

[Goaldeje]

Couldn't resist:


panthers Panthers add QB Keith Null to practice squad and S Gerald Alexander to active roster, waive WR Devin Thomas and put LB Sean Ware on IR.
31 minutes ago
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