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Coronavirus - COVID19

There is no chance draconian measures like the ones described will ever fly here. None. Americans simply won’t tolerate it. There may be politicians who advocate for some of these courses of action but the core of the American populace is only going to acquiesce so much to restrictive policies. There are a good number of them that aren’t even willing to social distance. More extreme measures would be met with outright refusal.

Its just not going to happen :)
 
most Americans wouldn't even ever register their guns. Registering and voluntarily installing tracking devices would never fly.

yes, I know that cell phones are already used to track us. But, that is different
 
something cool that is happening with this quarantine going on.

SlingTV has offered free basic TV after 5PM during weeknights and all weekend

Bands are putting out free shows via facebook/youtube, etc. if you are able to install Facebook watch or YouTube on your television you can see these free shows from your living room.

Not much, but its something positive to do. I just found Norah Jones has been doing them for a while. Her voice is so soothing and sweet to me.
 
My post was not to advocate for what South Korea is doing, but to suggest that the 'immunity card' idea probably involved more than just passing a test.

I don't know how I feel about any of that, but I do know what we're doing now ... it ain't working.
 
how is it not working?

we have a 99.75% survival rate. I dont know if you can ever stop people from getting sick if they're exposed.

Also, I didn't think you were advocating it. I just read it and was immediately like this:




 
99.75%? Just wondering what metric that references? This is from Johns Hopkins:

Cases and mortality by country
CountryConfirmedDeathsCase-FatalityDeaths/100k pop.
US1,390,40684,1196.0%25.71
United Kingdom230,98533,26414.4%50.03
Italy222,10431,10614.0%51.47
Spain228,69127,10411.9%58.01
France178,18427,07715.2%40.42
Brazil190,13713,2407.0%6.32
Belgium53,9818,84316.4%77.42

As to the idea the US today would be able to lock things down like the ROK ... not. Not without the Fed imposing martial law and meaning it. Something that no administration in my lifetime would even contemplate under similar circumstances.

I guess I can imagine a circumstance where that could or maybe even should happen ... alien invasion, nuclear fallout, multiple simultaneous supervolcanic eruptions, another Prohibition ... maybe.

But not this.
 
I cant find where I read the stat at, but since I cant find it, I cant argue/debate it.

but, 94 is still a pretty good number. If you would have told me I got a 94 on a test in HS I would have probably not believed you LOL
 
I don't envy anyone in a position of authority who has to make decisions right now related to promoting safety vs. moving towards opening things up. Folks who stake out ground on the extreme ends of those 2 options are both wrong imho. I believe that it's economic reality that we cannot simply quarantine the entire nation for 2-3 years. It just isn't possible unless we want to risk complete economic collapse. On the other hand, death is real and we want to safeguard everyone as much as possible. I think these times call for practical minds. These things can't be discussed in the abstract. In the abstract, no one wants even one more death from COVID-19. But we live in a real world where physical risk is not the only consideration. We have to find a responsible balance where life, business, employment, education go forward and we make it as safe as possible. Our leaders have to figure out the best ways to accomplish that. It won't be perfect, and people will die which is very sad. When we do have resurgences hopefully those instances are limited and hopefully folks won't use that inevitability to promote their personal political agenda. But there is no path forward that represents 'zero risk'. One way or another, America has to move forward. And that's all I have to say about that.
 
how is it not working?

we have a 99.75% survival rate. I dont know if you can ever stop people from getting sick if they're exposed.

Mike, that's like saying the survival rate on September 11 was 99.999989% so therefore our national security apparatus was working just fine.

We have over a million confirmed cases here. And it's just starting. We're a few months in.

I know there's a lot of talk about Freedom and Liberty with capital letters, and I don't want to make this political either so I'll just say this real quick and get out. The rumblings I'm hearing about re-opening schools have me terrified. One of my kids is immunodeficient. If schools open before I think it's safe will I be forced to send my kids? Is that Liberty with a capital L?
 
That’s where ‘responsible’ factors in. Kids are not immune and how does one manage social distancing in that setting? It’s one thing for adults to choose to take calculated risks. I also think kids could go several years without ‘in person’ education without any ill effects. And teachers can continue to work. That’s an area I think one could argue that max safety is warranted.

One complicating factor is that some areas have almost zero COVID and the arguments range from ‘we aren’t at significant risk therefore draconian measures are nonsensical’ to ‘the reason some areas remain relatively non-impacted are the restrictions’. It’s hard to know with certainty which end of the spectrum there is more likely the case.

Seems like a no-brainer though to play it as safe as possible with kids until vaccines and/or effective treatments are in place...
 
Mike, that's like saying the survival rate on September 11 was 99.999989% so therefore our national security apparatus was working just fine.

We have over a million confirmed cases here. And it's just starting. We're a few months in.

I know there's a lot of talk about Freedom and Liberty with capital letters, and I don't want to make this political either so I'll just say this real quick and get out. The rumblings I'm hearing about re-opening schools have me terrified. One of my kids is immunodeficient. If schools open before I think it's safe will I be forced to send my kids? Is that Liberty with a capital L?
no, it isn't. One is something we can firmly fix and one is a virus.

the quote that has gotten me is "if you want to do it, do it. if you don't feel safe, don't do it". It really should be that simple. Your fears (justifiable or not) should not be forced to be mine. If I am comfortable with eating at a restaurant or sending my kids to school, I shouldn't be forced to not do it because of what someone else thinks. That is true freedom.
 
Yesterday Virginia reported it's highest single day increase in total cases and confirmed deaths from Covid-19. On the same day our Governor announced we will begin to reopen tomorrow. I don't know what the best option is moving forward, but I do believe reopening while we're still on the front end of this isn't going to end well.

I don't envy the decision makers. Any option they decide on has a huge downside.
 
I don't envy anyone in a position of authority who has to make decisions right now related to promoting safety vs. moving towards opening things up. Folks who stake out ground on the extreme ends of those 2 options are both wrong imho. I believe that it's economic reality that we cannot simply quarantine the entire nation for 2-3 years. It just isn't possible unless we want to risk complete economic collapse. On the other hand, death is real and we want to safeguard everyone as much as possible. I think these times call for practical minds. These things can't be discussed in the abstract. In the abstract, no one wants even one more death from COVID-19. But we live in a real world where physical risk is not the only consideration. We have to find a responsible balance where life, business, employment, education go forward and we make it as safe as possible. Our leaders have to figure out the best ways to accomplish that. It won't be perfect, and people will die which is very sad. When we do have resurgences hopefully those instances are limited and hopefully folks won't use that inevitability to promote their personal political agenda. But there is no path forward that represents 'zero risk'. One way or another, America has to move forward. And that's all I have to say about that.

Thank you for posting this. This is exactly how I feel these days. I hear people on both extremes of this issue and I just shake my head. Nothing is ever as bad as people make it nor is it ever as simple as some people want it to be. And unfortunately if you don’t take the extreme opinion of the person you are talking to, you are somehow in the opposite extreme. It’s nuts. Like you, I’ve tried to give as much leeway to leaders as they make decisions. I don’t agree with all of them, but I don’t envy the position they are I . And this is not a political statement, so anyone that wants to make it one can take a hike. But there are people in authority above me I like and don’t like and I’m taking the same position of “trying“ to give them leeway. This is a unique situation and everyone through the US could use a little more common sense.
 
no, it isn't. One is something we can firmly fix and one is a virus.

the quote that has gotten me is "if you want to do it, do it. if you don't feel safe, don't do it". It really should be that simple. Your fears (justifiable or not) should not be forced to be mine. If I am comfortable with eating at a restaurant or sending my kids to school, I shouldn't be forced to not do it because of what someone else thinks. That is true freedom.

Not exactly Mike... because if you opt to exercise your freedom and get exposed, now you put others at risk. That’s where the dilemma lies. I don’t think it has to be one side is correct and the other wrong. But it’s not as simple as individual choice, particularly when some can carry this with little to no awareness or symptoms.
 
no, it isn't. One is something we can firmly fix and one is a virus.

the quote that has gotten me is "if you want to do it, do it. if you don't feel safe, don't do it". It really should be that simple. Your fears (justifiable or not) should not be forced to be mine. If I am comfortable with eating at a restaurant or sending my kids to school, I shouldn't be forced to not do it because of what someone else thinks. That is true freedom.
That's where it gets sticky though. As you said, it's a virus. Actions you take, such as you described, can put everybody else you contact in those actions at risk. The asymptomatic spread of the virus causes people to not even know they can spread it. That is what makes the morality of it so uncertain, as somebody could, even though acting in good faith, spread to somebody who can't handle the infection.

The other problem with this virus: there are individuals in China who are still asymptomatic, yet still testing positive for it, in spite of it being months later. The explicit pathology of this is not known yet, and the intense politicization of the issue in the States has caused it to be a emotional decision/conversation instead of a strategic and tactical one. Social distancing/self-quarantining is a tactic believed to mitigate the issue. It may not be as effective as we would like, and in the end may only delay the inevitable. It may be that a massive majority of people are asymptomatic when infected, which would skew the numbers excessively. It may be that the actions taken so far are the only reason the body count hasn't grown larger. It may be that they wouldn't have been as big anyway.

Risk assessment is generally to protect as many lives as possible, while having the smallest impact that is reasonable. The unfortunate politicization of this issue has caused discussion of it to be about one-upsmanship and focus on being "right"/smartest guy in the room, versus seeking to understand and do the right thing. It's sad that something that literally requires a coordinated response has been reacted to with such a toxic discourse. Many people are either oversimplifying or looking to draw battle lines, which undercuts getting the measured understanding the situation requires.

Edit: Just to be clear, not pointing at anybody with my comments. Just stating observations.
 
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I get the general statement...nothing personal taken.

if we do nothing and remain indoors we end up with more issues than just a virus. depression, crippled economy, angry citizens, etc.

we must do something and open up. the speed of how fast we open is up for debate. but, to do nothing is ridiculously dangerous.
 
Not exactly Mike... because if you opt to exercise your freedom and get exposed, now you put others at risk. That’s where the dilemma lies. I don’t think it has to be one side is correct and the other wrong. But it’s not as simple as individual choice, particularly when some can carry this with little to no awareness or symptoms.
if you remain indoors i am not putting you at a risk.

if your fear (not you specifically) wants to make everyone stay home...isn't that exactly what you are describing to me?
 
if you remain indoors i am not putting you at a risk.

if your fear (not you specifically) wants to make everyone stay home...isn't that exactly what you are describing to me?

People cannot ‘stay indoors’ indefinitely. They either go out to the grocery, to get gas, or have stuff delivered - all of which are points of potential infection. Again, we seem to be arguing either/or ... which aren’t the only choices.

Bottom line, the less the social isolation, the greater the risk (and the increased risks aren’t limited to individuals making the choice not to self-quarantine).
 
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Since we all need something to laugh about concerning this virus, Dude Perfect put out a quarantine stereotypes video a couple of weeks ago.

 

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