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Commanders not meeting expectations
- Thread starter Gooseneck
- Start date
Bulldog
The Legend
Yep, that contract is a doozey.
It was the last noose that Snyder tied around the neck of the franchise before he left town personnel-wise.
The fact Payne is expected to count for $28M against the cap 2 years from now is just absurd.
We traded away the best left tackle in the NFL in Trent Williams but we HAD to keep Daron Payne with a $90M deal with $60M guaranteed?
Didn't make much sense at the time.
If Payne had the PRODUCTION CONSISTENTLY that we see from a Chris Jones or Aaron Donald then he would have been worth that money and more.
But he only did it for ONE YEAR.
To really good GMs seeing a guy go beserk in a contract year is often a reason to let the player go in free agency.
Anyone out there remember Dana Stubblefield and his 15 sacks in San Francisco in 1997?
49ers let him go.
Dumb Redskins stepped up and paid him $36M over 6 years, which at the time made him one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL.
He never made another pro bowl.
It was the last noose that Snyder tied around the neck of the franchise before he left town personnel-wise.
The fact Payne is expected to count for $28M against the cap 2 years from now is just absurd.
We traded away the best left tackle in the NFL in Trent Williams but we HAD to keep Daron Payne with a $90M deal with $60M guaranteed?
Didn't make much sense at the time.
If Payne had the PRODUCTION CONSISTENTLY that we see from a Chris Jones or Aaron Donald then he would have been worth that money and more.
But he only did it for ONE YEAR.
To really good GMs seeing a guy go beserk in a contract year is often a reason to let the player go in free agency.
Anyone out there remember Dana Stubblefield and his 15 sacks in San Francisco in 1997?
49ers let him go.
Dumb Redskins stepped up and paid him $36M over 6 years, which at the time made him one of the highest paid defensive players in the NFL.
He never made another pro bowl.
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The funny thing about it is that Dorrance Armstrong and the rest are meeting expectations.
The expectations was that this was going to be a lousy team just trying to keep its head above water. I think we were in the thirties in most power polls before the season. So, the problem isn't that they aren't meeting expectations. It's that so many others have exceeded expectations.
The expectations was that this was going to be a lousy team just trying to keep its head above water. I think we were in the thirties in most power polls before the season. So, the problem isn't that they aren't meeting expectations. It's that so many others have exceeded expectations.
Bulldog
The Legend
I am not so sure. Armstrong had 8.5 sacks in 2022 when he had a chance to start games.
He posted 5.0 sacks in 2023 playing in a rotation but still producing rush wins at a decent clip.
I don't think the expectation that he could come in at 27 and be a 6-8 sack guy and three down starter was unrealistic.
Right now he has 2 sacks in 13 games.
No one was expecting him to post 12-15 sacks and go to the pro bowl.
He posted 5.0 sacks in 2023 playing in a rotation but still producing rush wins at a decent clip.
I don't think the expectation that he could come in at 27 and be a 6-8 sack guy and three down starter was unrealistic.
Right now he has 2 sacks in 13 games.
No one was expecting him to post 12-15 sacks and go to the pro bowl.
clskinsfan
The 1st Round Pick
Always Commander Never Captain
The UDFA
Armstrong got most of his sacks by reading the pocket, being in the right spot and cleaning up other people's pressures. We don't have the pass rushing chops that his teammates had in Dallas.
Armstrong could rebound to 6-8 cleanup sacks in 2025, if the rest of the pass rush improves.
Honestly, with our cap room, and the cap increases, Armstrong is not expensive. We can easily afford veterans like him. We'll have what, $120-135 million in cap space next off season?
Same with Wylie. We hopefully upgrade at RT, but Wylie is versatile and not hurting the cap by much. He'd be expensive but high quality depth.
Armstrong could rebound to 6-8 cleanup sacks in 2025, if the rest of the pass rush improves.
Honestly, with our cap room, and the cap increases, Armstrong is not expensive. We can easily afford veterans like him. We'll have what, $120-135 million in cap space next off season?
Same with Wylie. We hopefully upgrade at RT, but Wylie is versatile and not hurting the cap by much. He'd be expensive but high quality depth.
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I don’t remember, wasn’t he hurt for some period of time, either limited or otherwise? Training camp or at some point early in the season?
I could be mixing him up with somebody else though….
Always Commander Never Captain
The UDFA
We could wind up taking one in the 1st round and that might be the best move we could make. Draft is deep there but weak elsewhere. For example, a lot of the top OT's have teams thinking they're actually Guards instead.
Adam Peters won't chase need. If value is clearly DT then he'll go there.
Always Commander Never Captain
The UDFA
Eat a hamburger and have fluid hips.
Riggo44
The Free Agent Vet
Long snapper?
clskinsfan
The 1st Round Pick
Forbes should never have been drafted where he was. And a lot of us knew it and screamed about it when it happened. He will catch on somewhere and might end up a starter. But that bridge was burned here. Ron Rivera was a horrific first round talent evaluator.
Bulldog
The Legend
Forbes lacked the natural cover instincts to play man on the outside against NFL talent (supposedly his strength in college) and at 166 pounds was a liability in the run game.
Another example of a player that was just fine in college playing against the next tier down talent but he got exposed when matched against the best of the best, which is represented in the NFL.
The fact Christian Gonzalez was sitting there with a much better NFL profile in terms of size, speed and tackling ability we went strictly off the number of interceptions Forbes had in college.
Big mistake.
We see running backs all the time that average 6 yards per carry in college but don't have the skills to translate that to the NFL. That's what makes depending upon such statistics in a vacuum a losing proposition in many cases.
The best GMs and front office people look at the total athlete from A to Z and consider fit and transition to the NFL game MORE than a run down of college stats.
The Chiefs are learning that with Kingsley Suamataia, who is having issues transitioning to left tackle in the NFL. He has great size but not great quickness off the ball and was a limiting factor in many teams' considerations of him in the draft.
Most clubs saw him as a right tackle or a guard in the NFL.
Unlike Brandon Coleman, who despite some injury concerns, when on the field looks like a left tackle and has the athletic first step to get outside on the rusher in protection.
Another example of a player that was just fine in college playing against the next tier down talent but he got exposed when matched against the best of the best, which is represented in the NFL.
The fact Christian Gonzalez was sitting there with a much better NFL profile in terms of size, speed and tackling ability we went strictly off the number of interceptions Forbes had in college.
Big mistake.
We see running backs all the time that average 6 yards per carry in college but don't have the skills to translate that to the NFL. That's what makes depending upon such statistics in a vacuum a losing proposition in many cases.
The best GMs and front office people look at the total athlete from A to Z and consider fit and transition to the NFL game MORE than a run down of college stats.
The Chiefs are learning that with Kingsley Suamataia, who is having issues transitioning to left tackle in the NFL. He has great size but not great quickness off the ball and was a limiting factor in many teams' considerations of him in the draft.
Most clubs saw him as a right tackle or a guard in the NFL.
Unlike Brandon Coleman, who despite some injury concerns, when on the field looks like a left tackle and has the athletic first step to get outside on the rusher in protection.
Riggo44
The Free Agent Vet
I remember people losing their minds when we passed on him for Sanristil and Sinnot in the 2nd round\
Bulldog
The Legend
Still don't know what is going on with Sinnott.
The hairs always stand up on the back of my neck when I see a #1 or #2 pick that is not able to come into the NFL and make some visible plays that first year to show he belongs.
It might take some time for the player to become an established regular on offense or defense but you really need to see that initial spark of THAT is why we drafted him.
Sinnott to me looks like a #4 or #5 pick.
The hairs always stand up on the back of my neck when I see a #1 or #2 pick that is not able to come into the NFL and make some visible plays that first year to show he belongs.
It might take some time for the player to become an established regular on offense or defense but you really need to see that initial spark of THAT is why we drafted him.
Sinnott to me looks like a #4 or #5 pick.
Riggo44
The Free Agent Vet
Right now, he's the third TE. Kelce was a 3rd round pick and played in 1 game his rookie year. Daulton Schultz had 12 catches his first two years in the league. Darren Waller did nothing until he was 27. TEs develop at different rates. Be patient with Sinnot. He's already shown he is a devastating blocker.
ExoDus84
The Rookie
Absolutely agree. I think some will see Brock Bowers and think he's the rule instead of the exception. TEs generally take a few years to really develop into big time playmakers.
Sinnott is a great blocker, and is very athletic. He has a lot of potential. I'm excited to see how he develops.
I keep envisioning them somehow finding a legit CB2. Then we'd have Lattimore, Player X and Sainristill in the slot who has proven he can step outside should there be an injury. I would not mind seeing competition for Quan Martin coming from the draft or a young FA who is ready to blow up. Martin is fine, certainly not a liability, but it would be nice to have an impact playmaker back there.
RWJ
The Free Agent Vet
Yep, accept for when he played for a new contract.
Daron Payne | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com
Daron Payne signed a 4 year, $90,000,000 contract with the Washington Commanders, including $28,000,000 signing bonus, $59,010,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $22,500,000. In 2025, Payne will earn a base salary of $19,560,000 and a workout bonus of $500,000, while carrying a...www.spotrac.com
Sinnott and Bates are our other OL to give JD extra protection and help in the running game. Hopefully, AP addresses the OL, specifically OT in the draft and FA.
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