Change of Thought: Let Orakpo Go

[DieselPwr44]

Take one finger out of this hole and put it into one of those four holes over there.

That's how you rebuild a defense?

 

[Bulldog]

Actually the relative lack of picks and depth works against keeping Orakpo because that means more holes need to be filled in free agency and that translates into the need for cap room.

Orakpo is a solid player, but he is not more than that. At 27/28 I think he is what he is.

For those that put his talent and impact on the level of a Sean Taylor or similar I ask what games you have been watching.

I recall a couple of years ago Brian had 9 sacks in 16 games, but 3 of them came in 1 game.

Last year there were games where there was NO pass rush pressure from anyone on the defense.

My point is that no one on D was so consistently excellent that they deserve to be paid top 5 money at his position.

 

[Miles Monroe]

You're giving impossible standards for Rak to live up to.

It seems to me that you (and the rest of the Jackson fans) are basing this all on Jackson's interception at the end of 2012, and maybe his diving pick-6 against Cincy (a game we lost, btw). I think that's typical Redskins fan behavior... idolizing sub-par players based on one or two great moments.

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And it can easily be said the the Rak supporters are doing the same, picking the shining spots that come from time to time, and running with it. Only real difference is Rak has had more field time to accumulate those shining spots.

It would be interesting to do the probability calculations to see how many of those great moments Jackson would have if he stayed on the pace he had in the 7 games, started as many games, and took the same number of over all snaps as Rak.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

And it can easily be said the the Rack supporters are doing the same, picking the shining spots that come from time to time, and running with it. Only real difference is Rak has had more field time to accumulate those shining spots.

It would be interesting to do the probability calculations to see how many of those great moments Jackson would have if he stayed on the pace he had in the 7 games, started as many games, and took the same number of over all snaps as Rak.

That also goes for the lackluster efforts (having more opportunities to look bad in coverage, etc).

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[fansince62]

Actually the relative lack of picks and depth works against keeping Orakpo because that means more holes need to be filled in free agency and that translates into the need for cap room.

Orakpo is a solid player, but he is not more than that. At 27/28 I think he is what he is.

For those that put his talent and impact on the level of a Sean Taylor or similar I ask what games you have been watching.

I recall a couple of years ago Brian had 9 sacks in 16 games, but 3 of them came in 1 game.

Last year there were games where there was NO pass rush pressure from anyone on the defense.

My point is that no one on D was so consistently excellent that they deserve to be paid top 5 money at his position.

disagree. put Rak on a team with quality players across the DL and he becomes a star. as previously noted - he's ranked the number 1 OLB FA this off-season. may be a weak class...but he's still viewed as the top FA.

In the end...Haz likes him. Haz is being given his chance/empowered this year. I think Rak will be back, especially since the rest of the D save for Kerrigan is mediocre, barring a major price tag.

 

[McD5]

Just throwing this out there:
I don't think our team is nearly as bad many seem to be thinking.

I do not believe we're in, or that we need to be in, 'rebuild mode'

From purely a talent standpoint, it seems we have a lot of work to do.

On defensive talent alone, NFL.com has us ranked as the second worst in the league. Shanahan really blew hard on defense. He didn't leave us with much on that side of the ball after four years.

 

[Henry]

You franchise Rak. You re-sign him. If he wants top five money, you pay it to him.

This is silly. Some of you are talking like it's no problem to draft a top pass-rusher in the 5th round or something. This team has tons of holes on defense, few draft picks and decent cap space. If there was ever a time to re-sign one of our own good players, this is it. Because make no mistake, we will need to sign some free agents to build this team and if we do we should resign our own guys who we know can produce here. One of the reasons free agents are such a gamble is because you don't know if they'll play as well on a new team. Rak would not be that type of FA. He's our guy. We know we'll get a very good pass rush from him. Here.

To those of you who say Jackson is a solid player, I say good! Then we have some depth. Wouldn't that be something. In other threads I hear people saying we need more guys like Malcom Smith, superbowl MVP for Seattle. Well guess what? That dude is a backup. If we want to copy those magical Seahawks, we need depth too. That won't happen if we let the few good players we have go.

It is an absolute, fundamental truth in the NFL that you WILL overpay for some players. Every team does. And we've been saying for years that when we do overpay we should overpay for our own guys first. Reward the players who produce for the Burgundy and Gold. Stop letting Clark and Pierce go for Archuleta and Trotter. I guarantee you if we let Rak go we will end up breaking the bank for someone else's pass rusher, or we won't have a pass rush. We should stop doing that.

 

[Boone]

Yeah. I couldn't agree more Henry. And on top of that, both Kerrigan and Orakpo will suddenly look dominant if/when they aren't having to do it all themselves. Get them some help on the D-line and even in the secondary and we'll see them look like the world-beaters they have appeared to be only in flashes to date.

 

[Miles Monroe]

That also goes for the lackluster efforts (having more opportunities to look bad in coverage, etc).

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Rak was awful in coverage for quite some time, and just as of this past season had his skills gotten to the point you could call them adequate to good. Coverage skills aren't a real solid point to base your argument on. Fact still stands that the team did better without Rak on the field. People can come up with all the little things they see as knocks against Jackson, but there's nothing anyone can say to disprove we were better without Rak on the field.

 

[Chris]

How about we stop drafting 4/3 defensive ends and trying to make/expecting them to become 3/4 olb's?

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Rak was awful in coverage for quite some time, and just as of this past season had his skills gotten to the point you could call them adequate to good. Coverage skills aren't a real solid point to base your argument on. Fact still stands that the team did better without Rak on the field. People can come up with all the little things they see as knocks against Jackson, but there's nothing anyone can say to disprove we were better without Rak on the field.

Well, as the article in the other thread pointed out, it was Shamahan, not Haz who demanded Rak drop back into coverage so much. He'll be doing much less of that in 2014, whether as a Redskin or whoever else signs him.

Other than that, Henry summer up the keep Rak argument better than me, so "ditto Henry." Lol.

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[fansince62]

Rak was awful in coverage for quite some time, and just as of this past season had his skills gotten to the point you could call them adequate to good. Coverage skills aren't a real solid point to base your argument on. Fact still stands that the team did better without Rak on the field. People can come up with all the little things they see as knocks against Jackson, but there's nothing anyone can say to disprove we were better without Rak on the field.

we weren't. the offense was killing EVERYONE.

 

[fansince62]

Well, as the article in the other thread pointed out, it was Shamahan, not Haz who demanded Rak drop back into coverage so much. He'll be doing much less of that in 2014, whether as a Redskin or whoever else signs him.

Other than that, Henry summer up the keep Rak argument better than me, so "ditto Henry." Lol.

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not only that...if the pass rush is weak...no OLB in the league is gonna hang with the Shady McCoys of the world.

 

[Henry]

Rak was awful in coverage for quite some time, and just as of this past season had his skills gotten to the point you could call them adequate to good. Coverage skills aren't a real solid point to base your argument on. Fact still stands that the team did better without Rak on the field. People can come up with all the little things they see as knocks against Jackson, but there's nothing anyone can say to disprove we were better without Rak on the field.

It's not Orakpo's job to be the defense. It's his job to get to the QB. He does it a lot better than Jackson.

If he's asked to drop into coverage that's a schematic problem. And it's a LOT easier to fix that than it is to find a premier pass rusher.

Our defense sucked in 2012 and 2013. That's not relevant to whether or not an individual player is of any value. Right now this league is all about passing the ball on offense and getting to the QB on defense. People can come up with all kinds of statistics about our crappy defense, but nobody gets to the QB better than Orakpo on this team. It's not even close. You just don't abandon a player like that lightly.

I'd like to think the days of signing Bruce Smith and Jayson Taylor are over, and that the days of hoping Rich Owens or Kenard Lang somehow turn into pass rushers are also behind us. Guys, we actually found us a real, honest-to-God pass rusher. On our own team and on our own draft board. A guy who's good enough to go to three pro-bowls in four healthy years. And because he's not JJ Watt ... because he's not great in coverage, we want to just let him go? Really? Have you guys forgotten the previous 15 years of having literally no one in the front seven who could get to the QB at all?

Nah. We bring him back. He's a Redskin. We found him. No more shuffling players in and out.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

JJ Watt is not great in coverage either. We just never hear about it, because Wade Phillips rarely sent him into coverage to be exposed.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

How about we stop drafting 4/3 defensive ends and trying to make/expecting them to become 3/4 olb's?

The problem is, most guys come to college as 4/3 defensive ends, and most colleges still run a 4/3 also. 3/4 is becoming more prominent, but its still a guessing game for the most part; finding a 4/3 DE who's slightly undersized, who might be a good fit for the 3/4. Its not as easy as just drafting a 3/4 guy, unfortunately.

 

[Miles Monroe]

It's not Orakpo's job to be the defense. It's his job to get to the QB. He does it a lot better than Jackson.

If he's asked to drop into coverage that's a schematic problem. And it's a LOT easier to fix that than it is to find a premier pass rusher.

Our defense sucked in 2012 and 2013. That's not relevant to whether or not an individual player is of any value. Right now this league is all about passing the ball on offense and getting to the QB on defense. People can come up with all kinds of statistics about our crappy defense, but nobody gets to the QB better than Orakpo on this team. It's not even close. You just don't abandon a player like that lightly.

I'd like to think the days of signing Bruce Smith and Jayson Taylor are over, and that the days of hoping Rich Owens or Kenard Lang somehow turn into pass rushers are also behind us. Guys, we actually found us a real, honest-to-God pass rusher. On our own team and on our own draft board. A guy who's good enough to go to three pro-bowls in four healthy years. And because he's not JJ Watt ... because he's not great in coverage, we want to just let him go? Really? Have you guys forgotten the previous 15 years of having literally no one in the front seven who could get to the QB at all?

Nah. We bring him back. He's a Redskin. We found him. No more shuffling players in and out.

I've said all along I don't have a problem signing Rak, and don't dislike the guy. I just don't want to break the bank doing so. Questions about durability / health stick in my head, and I just don't see him as an all pro player. I don't want to shuffle players in and out either, stability would be nice. While he's undoubtedly in the top ten, in my eyes he hasn't proven he deserves top 4 or 5 pay. I know it has everything to do with the entire squad, and his production will go up with better schemes and better interior play, but that could also be said of anybody playing OLB for this team. I'm with you when it comes to hoping the days of bringing in over the hill FA's are over, but also hope we continue with the trend of not over paying players to keep them.

I have no doubt we resign him. I just hope it doesn't effect signing other players in the not so distant future.

 

[McD5]

0% chance of letting Orakpo go.

 

[tshile]

Phew, you think we should pay top dollar to keep orakpo henry?

I thought most of us were roughly on the same page, but the last page or two has convinced me I was wrong.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Phew, you think we should pay top dollar to keep orakpo henry?

I thought most of us were roughly on the same page, but the last page or two has convinced me I was wrong.

I'm with Henry, you pay what it takes to keep him. He's worth it, for many reasons.

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