Change of Thought: Let Orakpo Go

[DieselPwr44]

Are we soooo talented that we can run what little talent we do have out the door Bulldog?

 

[Elephant]

He excelled last year.

In pass coverage he was almost always lost. He made a couple of surprising plays in coverage, but he is a liability trying to cover a zone, RB or TE. He's just not equipped for it.

 

[Elephant]

Almost every LB is. That's just the odds.

Not true. Many are better than Orakpo, just look at Kerrigan on the other side. If we were going to switch back to a 4-3 where he is better suited...ok, keep him. We're not, he's a square peg...3-4 is a round hole. No thanks. I'll pass.

 

[McD5]

Who is going to replace him?

Who is going to replace Fletcher?

How many picks do you think we have?

So if we do use a second or third on a replacement, are u going to complain that the lines weren't addressed?

 

[tshile]

Kerrigan also played almost the whole season with an injury that i believe needed surgery?

 

[fansince62]

When the offseason began I assumed signing Orakpo was one of the necessary steps to improving in 2014.

Looking at the franchise tag of almost $12M for the season has me now thinking we need to let him go into free agency.

While Brian has put up solid numbers when healthy the fact is I would not count him as one of the five best rushers in the game.

To take up that kind of cap space being bandied about you really have to be talking about an all-pro caliber performer.

Even with a longer term deal his number would be limiting in the team's attempts to improve the roster significantly in other areas.

Again I am not convinced at 27/28 we are looking at a player whose upside is much greater than what we have already seen.

Orakpo's 2014 cap numbers could equate to the salaries of perhaps 3 other younger veteran players that could help the team.

Watching Baltimore and Seattle the past couple of years it seems the age of parity (mediocrity) in the NFL rewards those teams with solid all around rosters and a sprinkling of star performers.

With the cap and injuries investing maximum dollars in any one position seems like a losing gambit.

Qb may be the exception and Seattle was lucky enough to have one playing on his rookie deal.

Seattle wasn't that lucky. They invested a whole lotta money in different QBs before stumbling on Wilson.

As for Orakpo, your argument makes sense from an economic pov. but for a team which is woefully weak compared to other defenses...not sure I agree with letting talent go. the marker, in my book, isn't whether he is an all-pro (which he has been...btw). it's whether the team values him accordingly relative to the defense overall.

I'd be careful with this one. This defense already sucks enough. Giving away capable pieces while trying to rebuild the other parts may not be the best strategy. it's definitely a wasteful use of first round draft picks.

 

[fansince62]

What Russell seems to ignore is this team after 3-13 is in rebuilding mode. Improvement for this organization is going to come from an infusion of younger, cheaper talent and well-placed mid-range free agent acquisitions that add depth.

Orakpo for one season in 2014 at the franchise tag gets the organization what exactly? So, he moves on in free agency in 2015?

The Redskins are not close to being a legitimate contender, which would be the only reason to franchise Orakpo and bring him back for a single season, absorbing one-third of the team's available cap room.

It's not value for money. And that's what wins, in business, and in sports.

Orakpo at $11M means two or three fewer other acquisitions at positions of need.

Rather than looking at Orakpo as a must-have player, you see you coaches and organizations like the Patriots, Steelers, 49ers, Ravens and others that contend shed players when their contract demands outsize their contributions.

The 49ers let Golston hit free agency and Tampa Bay gave him a big contract. Meanwhile, SF was back in the NFC title game with another player at safety and the Bucs still were a losing team.

The Steelers let Mike Wallace go and look at what he did in Miami (or didn't do).

Some team in 2014 is going to offer Julian Edelman a bigger contract than NE will based upon what he did with Brady in 2013 and that team in all likelihood will be disappointed because he is not a premier performer.

Good organizations replace talent and move on.

For Chris Russell, I would ask why would the Redskins not be able to go into the draft and think they could find an outside linebacker to fit the 3-4 scheme?

Russell seems to believe #98 and #23 are irreplaceable to this defense.

I don't believe it in either case.

SF is a bad example. It took years for them to rebuild their roster. Everyone seems to forget that the process started back in the Singletary days, had a lot of miss-hits. Same thing with Seattle.

The Skins don't have a number one this year. They don't have a scintillating record drafting. We're gonna pickle another first round pick in the HOPE that someone equally capable is unearthed? we're going to burn resources by creating yet another hole? there's a whole bunch of trade-offs in this decision. one step backward for two steps forward is a philosophy that can work. when to apply that strategy is subject to debate.

 

[Elephant]

Who is going to replace him?

Who is going to replace Fletcher?

How many picks do you think we have?

So if we do use a second or third on a replacement, are u going to complain that the lines weren't addressed?

That's not a very good argument. You don't sign someone who doesn't fit the mold because you're not sure where the replacement will come. We are rebuilding, whether many want to believe it or not. Rebuild the correct way, not by signing players who do not fit the scheme you run.


Look at it this way. He's a FA so the reality is the hole is already there. It needs to be filled. Why fill it with someone not properly equipped for the position? Would you sign a player who is a pass rush specialist only to fill the position that needs a player who does more?

 

[Neophyte]

Who is going to replace him?

Who is going to replace Fletcher?

How many picks do you think we have?

So if we do use a second or third on a replacement, are u going to complain that the lines weren't addressed?

Funny but I believe the defense performed even better with Rob Jackson playing Rak's position then it ever has with Rak playing it. Just sayin'.

No clue about replacing Fletcher. I'm guessing draft or FA signing or Barnett.

Rak is just one guy. One. And he isn't a QB. If could sign (or resign) 3-4 guys for what it would take to resign Rak might that not be worth it? What if we could rebuild the offensive line for what it would take to keep Rak?

All BD is saying is to look at the value for the money and examine what we might be giving up to keep him. Balance those things and see which side the scale drops on.

 

[tshile]

Just throwing this out there:
I don't think our team is nearly as bad many seem to be thinking.

I do not believe we're in, or that we need to be in, 'rebuild mode'

 

[fansince62]

Funny but I believe the defense performed even better with Rob Jackson playing Rak's position then it ever has with Rak playing it. Just sayin'.

No clue about replacing Fletcher. I'm guessing draft or FA signing or Barnett.

Rak is just one guy. One. And he isn't a QB. If could sign (or resign) 3-4 guys for what it would take to resign Rak might that not be worth it? What if we could rebuild the offensive line for what it would take to keep Rak?

All BD is saying is to look at the value for the money and examine what we might be giving up to keep him. Balance those things and see which side the scale drops on.

Neo. nice post.

the problem is that you don't know what you're giving up. the assumption is that whatever value is received will be used smartly. the decision to create yet another gap - sorry Jackson hasn't done all that much IMO save for an int in the Dallas game (i.e., he's no solution either) - on the expectation that 1 or 2 picks will solve other problems is a risk. especially in a year when there is no number one and there is slim to no pickings in FA at the poison Rak plays. He is ranked as the number 1 candidate on FA lists I have seen for his position.

we'll know in time. I think the Haynesworth experience bounds how far the Skins will go to populate the roster with talent.

 

[Neophyte]

Neo. nice post.

the problem is that you don't know what you're giving up. the assumption is that whatever value is received will be used smartly. the decision to create yet another gap - sorry Jackson hasn't done all that much IMO save for an int in the Dallas game (i.e., he's no solution either) - on the expectation that 1 or 2 picks will solve other problems is a risk. especially in a year when there is no number one and there is slim to no pickings in FA at the poison Rak plays. He is ranked as the number 1 candidate on FA lists I have seen for his position.

we'll know in time. I think the Haynesworth experience bounds how far the Skins will go to populate the roster with talent.

I may not know what I am getting but I know what I'm keeping or letting go of and that is a guy who to date is NOT worth a franchise tag level offer. He is averaging just over 9.5 sacks a season (I didn't count the year he had 1 sack in the only 2 games he played for us) and he has 155 tackles total for his career. That is a solid year for Fletcher.

Granted, these are only stats and do not tell the whole story but I'm not seeing a difference maker worth breaking the bank for. If I can get him for a reasonable contract then sure but I won't give up the chance to add 2, 3 or 4 other solid guys to this roster to keep a guy who is going to give me 9 or 10 sacks this year while being a liability in pass coverage. Just because he is the #1 rated guy at his position doesn't mean he is worth between $9.5 and $11 million a year, which is the number for him depending if you count him as a LB or a DE.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Man, Rob Jackson's legend has officially surpassed Anthony Mix status. Greatest player EVARRRRR

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[Nobody]

Count me as one who has been on the Rob Jackson bandwagon from his first play. I've always thought it would be a better idea to keep him long term than break the bank for Orakpo. The D plays better with him, he performs solidly, costs nowhere near as much, and you don't have to consider how many games per season he will miss for injury.

 

[LoyalSkinsFan]

Granted, these are only stats and do not tell the whole story but I'm not seeing a difference maker worth breaking the bank for.

But see, that's exactly it. I feel as if I DID see a difference maker in Rak...particularly in the last few games. I'll admit, I'm as skeptical as anyone as far as he goes, but he did actually make that kind of difference the second part of the year. He was a a beast.

Having said that, I also feel that he's completely lost in pass coverage and I, like many others, wished we'd go back to the 4-3 and really take advantages of his strengths and not expose his weaknesses. Same goes for Kerrigan. But unfortunately, that's water under the bridge now. Still, he's a great player when healthy, and if he can stay on the field he's a massive presence along the line even if he's not nearly effective in coverage. Under those parameters, with all the other areas we need to address (offensive line, for instance), I'd at the very least tag him and deal with this next season when perhaps we don't have those same issues. I'd really like to believe that in any case our upper management would not make a Haynesoworthian type of offer to him....and if that were the only way to keep him I think I'd let him go. But, with the tag as an option, I don't know how you could ever let him walk away.

 

[Ax]

Orakpo and Jackson.

Two of Vinny's best picks.

Both college D-linemen, converted to OLB in the pros.

Fascinating.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

We need to keep in mind that Rob Jackson is one mistake away from a long term suspension.

 

[Ax]

Yeah, forgot about that BB. Great point.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Count me as one who has been on the Rob Jackson bandwagon from his first play. I've always thought it would be a better idea to keep him long term than break the bank for Orakpo. The D plays better with him, he performs solidly, costs nowhere near as much, and you don't have to consider how many games per season he will miss for injury.

One thing to worry about is that he's already been suspended for banned substances though....

 

[fansince62]

I may not know what I am getting but I know what I'm keeping or letting go of and that is a guy who to date is NOT worth a franchise tag level offer. He is averaging just over 9.5 sacks a season (I didn't count the year he had 1 sack in the only 2 games he played for us) and he has 155 tackles total for his career. That is a solid year for Fletcher.

Granted, these are only stats and do not tell the whole story but I'm not seeing a difference maker worth breaking the bank for. If I can get him for a reasonable contract then sure but I won't give up the chance to add 2, 3 or 4 other solid guys to this roster to keep a guy who is going to give me 9 or 10 sacks this year while being a liability in pass coverage. Just because he is the #1 rated guy at his position doesn't mean he is worth between $9.5 and $11 million a year, which is the number for him depending if you count him as a LB or a DE.

1) I agree. Don't break the bank. That's not going to happen.

2) Fletcher is supposed to make more tackles. Orakpo shifted a lot from stand-up to 3/4 pt stance on the line.

3) Hazlett has stated he very much likes what Rak does in pass pro. All our LBs have been liabilities in pass pro.

We'll see how out plays out. To me it smells like Bennett at Tampa moving over to Seattle. It's more the team than the player.

This team has shot itself in the foot so many times that it seems like it's a line item in the business model. I remember year after year of crappy DLs, trading for over-the-hill types, drafting tomorrow's cast-away. filling all the other holes and then replacing Rak as well will not be easy. jackson is not the answer. Kerrigan' production will also likely drop.

so, the grocery list is:

- find a safety

- find a db

- find a MLB

- find a NT

- find a DE

and now we want to add find another OLB with pass coverage and rush abilities. and that doesn't even address the idea that the material on hand may not really be worth keeping around.

ok.