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a 3rd next year and a 5th this year? are you joking?

The thing people have to remember, the person responsible for screwing up the Williams deal is gone. Allen royally screwed up by not trading him and left this new staff a mess. You can't go back and change history and make Allen all of the sudden act like a professional and do what's best for the team. They have to do what's best for the team from where they are right now. That includes getting Williams out for whatever someone will give them. Because there is no guarantee that if they make him stay and play that he plays since it's clear he doesn't want to play. So you get no value from him. He will then walk after this season leaving the Redskins with a comp pick at best, which could then be cancelled by a player being signed. So the alternative to trading him is having him on the roster not playing and getting nothing for him. I wish there was a better offer, but apparently there wasn't.
The only thing I'd add to this, is that BOTH the people responsible for this are gone.
And I'd still give Williams the lions share of blame since he started the entire saga with his lying, money grabbing bullshit.
 
When I first saw this I wasn't very happy, even though I've nevered cared for his attitude. But the fact of the matter is the dude is now a malcontent and one doob away from ending his career. Let San Fran deal with all that crap
 
Tunsil was traded for two firsts after smoking pot on video.

We received two 3 thirds and a 5th--for Cousins and Trent combined.

Of course we were fleeced. We were offered a 1st last year and didn't take it out of stupidity and spite. And here we are. Thanks Bruce.
 
When I first saw this I wasn't very happy, even though I've nevered cared for his attitude. But the fact of the matter is the dude is now a malcontent and one doob away from ending his career. Let San Fran deal with all that crap

Not with the new CBA he's not, plus he's in California. He can smoke to his heart's delight.

I would add to the notion -that Allen blew this by not trading him- that it goes even further back than that. Allen blew this by even allowing Trent to become so unhappy. A good GM would have seen his value to the team as a guy who would battle through pain and be a team leader and an elite player at a key position. When that player indicated he was unhappy with his contract then make the damn man happy FFS! This never had to degrade to the level of needing to trade an All Pro Bookend LT. Not trading him is secondary.

That clown show we had here before made me actually stop watching games. I've not taken jobs before because they refused to guarantee Sundays off and I'm all the way here now. I haven't bought any new gear in years. A former season ticket holder...go to a game now? HELL NO.

Nuts.
 
Tunsil was traded for two firsts after smoking pot on video.

We received two 3 thirds and a 5th--for Cousins and Trent combined.

Of course we were fleeced. We were offered a 1st last year and didn't take it out of stupidity and spite. And here we are. Thanks Bruce.

Tunsil is considerably younger, has nowhere near the mileage and that trade wasn’t straight-up him for two firsts. Kenny Stills and a 4th were also traded along with Tunsil. Houston also gave a second and two players who I don’t even know if they’ll be on a roster next year.
 
When I first saw this I wasn't very happy, even though I've nevered cared for his attitude. But the fact of the matter is the dude is now a malcontent and one doob away from ending his career. Let San Fran deal with all that crap

While I agree... Just to clarify, the new CBA does not test for weed anymore. He likely has seen his last suspension for weed, and it's not because he's quit smoking.


Tunsil was traded for two firsts after smoking pot on video.

We received two 3 thirds and a 5th--for Cousins and Trent combined.

Of course we were fleeced. We were offered a 1st last year and didn't take it out of stupidity and spite. And here we are. Thanks Bruce.

You mention we screwed it up. You mention Bruce being the reason for that, but you still say we got fleeced.... this doesn't make sense. His value was lost. We held out as long as we could, but the likelihood that we got more than what we did is gone. We missed that boat when Bruce messed it up. Getting fleeced is selling below market value. We did not. His market value tanked. Tunsil and Sills were traded for 2 first round picks to HOUSTON. The franchise that has been making WTF moves for the last 18 months. They got sold ABOVE market value.

Trent's market value (31 year old multi-time pro bowler) is much closer to Okung (also 31, 2 time pro bowler) than it is Tunsil (25 year old 1 time pro bowl). To try and say that Trent is worth the same as Tunsil when he's 6 years younger, and the trade partner has proven that they are not making trades that line up with what is in fact an accurate market value.... see DeAndre Hopkins trade... is not a fair comparison. Tunsil played in a lot more games over the last 4 seasons than Trent played in the last 4 he played. Trent also missed all of 2019 while Tunsil was a pro bowler. The new CBA how does not test for weed so the smoking pot video is rendered meaningless. It's meaningless for Trent as well, so the threat of suspension is not my point, it's his injury history. Tunsil's value is on a very clear upward trajectory, while Trent is going to be lucky to be playing in 3 seasons. Sorry, the two cannot be compared.
 
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Fans always overvalue their teams better players. It's not a slam on anyone, but we are not objective - and we can't be. Williams is on the downside of his career. He's missed games almost every season over the past 5. He flat out failed to show up last year when he likely could have. He has at least twice stomped his feet demanding a better contract while under a generous contract. And he's thrown team and front office staff completely under the bus in some instances for things that aren't their responsibility, or if I'm being kind he at least had shared culpability for.

Other teams notice all of these things. I'm not going to defend Bruce Allen's management of the situation. But there's a difference between creating a disastrous player situation, and mishandling it. Williams, to a large extent, made his own bed in all this. Allen is gone, so is anything really served by rehashing the numerous ways we are fortunate he's no longer here?

One big difference we are seeing already? A lot of head coaches, coming into a new job, with a disgruntled and previous 'fan favorite' player wanting 'out', would've done whatever it took to appease that player and the fanbase. They would've made a big deal out of meeting with the player, as many times as it took, publicly stroking his ego, signing him to a shiny new deal (whether earned or not), and catering to what fans wanted.

Rivera? Hell no. He did the exact opposite. In stark contrast to guys like Bruce Allen, who should've seen this blow-up coming from 10 miles away, he did none of those things. Rivera was smart enough to see that the issues that at his core, Trent Williams is a selfish, 'me first' guy who abandoned his team for personal interest, plays passive-aggressive games using the media as a tool, that he hasn't been and never was going to be about the team and organization, and that the quicker we got him out of Ashburn, the better. He made that assessment about 5 minutes after arriving in DC - and he acted on it.

I don't think we have any idea yet the sea change in character and decision-making that has already occurred.
 
Good grief.

Some fans, and CNN probably, are still parroting the idea that we were offered a 1st last year.
Sorry, didn't happen. According to every professional involved that I've heard talk about it.

And while the NFL might not test for marijuana anymore, let some brain dead dufus (hello trent) get pulled over, or otherwise popped with possession.
Nothing prevents the NFL from suspending. Especially 3 strike dumb dumbs. (hello again trent)

Eagles had a song. Not one of their bests. But the title is something more people need to practice concerning this situation.

Get Over It.
 
While I agree... Just to clarify, the new CBA does not test for weed anymore. He likely has seen his last suspension for weed, and it's not because he's quit smoking.


Shows how much I keep up with football these days. So players can Snoop Dogg their way thru a career now huh? Just another reason not to watch
 
The thing people have to remember, the person responsible for screwing up the Williams deal is gone. Allen royally screwed up by not trading him and left this new staff a mess.
Playing devil's advocate in Al's defense...the main ingredient in the 20 years of misery is Snyder, so as long as he's in charge, the front office will be a mess...until it isn't.

And he has a point, the difference between us?

Al has just about given up and sees the Rivera moves as unimpressive. I am less inclined to be so critical, I got what I wanted so I'm willing to give Rivera and team the benefit of the doubt. The single move making that easier for me? Jack Del Rio.

Good grief.

Some fans, and CNN probably, are still parroting the idea that we were offered a 1st last year.
Sorry, didn't happen. According to every professional involved that I've heard talk about it.

Yeah, the consensus among most NFL pundits I follow on social media was that the Browns were willing to give up a first round pick. Then we were in talks with Houston who initially offered Jadaveon Clowney...not sure why negotiations broke down after that, I just know that all of sudden Tunsil was traded and we were still stuck with Trent.

Hate Trent all you want, we had better outs last year when there was more value...we did not take them.

And for those thinking Trent Williams had more value now in a saturated market, you are fooling yourselves. We got the value we could. The new regime was not going to play the game any longer. I applaud that.


Edit: And I will say this, and it's puuuuure speculation, but with a trade deal in the works with the Vikings, which fell through because Trent killed it, I have to wonder if the pick we were getting was the one the Vikings traded out of for the Saints to come up and get Trautman just a couple spots in front of us. I wonder if we weren't gunning for that selection to take the best TE in the draft at that point.

Did Trent ruin that for us? That **^%$&%^*^!!!!!
 
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Shows how much I keep up with football these days. So players can Snoop Dogg their way thru a career now huh? Just another reason not to watch

Unless you plan on buying a private island somewhere, marijuana will be part of America's future. Whether one approves or not, it's America's 2nd most popular drug and probably on it's way to #1 with the current generation. The NFL isn't some kind of trailblazer in recognizing it. It will be legal nationally ultimately, it's a foregone conclusion, and is already being decriminalized in most areas.
 
Yeah, the consensus among most NFL pundits I follow on social media was that the Browns were willing to give up a first round pick. Then we were in talks with Houston who initially offered Jadaveon Clowney...not sure why negotiations broke down after that, I just know that all of sudden Tunsil was traded and we were still stuck with Trent.
No offer was made. Pundits speculate on all kinds of garbage to generate a response. They throw tons of shit at the wall, and claim clairvoyance when a milligram sticks.
They didn't even get a milligram on that one.

And the Clown Man? Didn't want him then, and not willing to try and outbid everyone beating down his door now.

Oh wait. There is nobody beating down his door.

And unlike some, I'm not willing hang the past around the new regime's neck. Anybody that wants to, can keep picking on the cripple in the room.
But worse human beings have owned sports franchises, and won Championships. So can he if let's the football people handle the football stuff.
But they can go ahead and keep kicking the cripple. Especially when it's all they've really got to bitch about today.
 
He's earned the kicks Ax. I agree it's not productive since he is the owner and that won't change. But 'cripple'? He's the guy that's doing the crippling brother. It's been that way for 20 years. Your willingness to forgive notwithstanding. I used to argue the same thing. But I can't any more.
 
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And unlike some, I'm not willing hang the past around the new regime's neck. Anybody that wants to, can keep picking on the cripple in the room.
But worse human beings have owned sports franchises, and won Championships. So can he if let's the football people handle the football stuff.
But they can go ahead and keep kicking the cripple. Especially when it's all they've really got to bitch about today.

Yes I agree with this sentiment. I have been really down on the Skins for years now, but this off-season feels different to me. It just feels more methodical and sensible with a definite lack of WTF moments. I'll never be a Snyder fan, but Rivera and Smith seem to be calling all the shots so I'm hopeful.
 
Belichick traded Logan Mankins, a 3 or 4 time pro bowl selection at OG for a #3 pick when he wanted an outsized contract. He was 29.

The Patriots didn’t look back and went on to go 16-0 during the 2007 season.

Let’s just turn the page and focus on the future rather than crying over spilled milk.

If Trent was 24 or 25 I might very well have had a different approach to getting value for a player with that much future in the league but at 32?

By the time this team is ready to contend in 2022 for a real prize Williams will be an afterthought at 35.
 
No offer was made. Pundits speculate on all kinds of garbage to generate a response. They throw tons of shit at the wall, and claim clairvoyance when a milligram sticks.
They didn't even get a milligram on that one.

And what I saw reported from many out there contradicts what "you" say on this. A 1st round pick was being discussed, and execs from the Browns stated they did make an offer. You can discount another fact all you want, but you're wrong on this one. Bruce Allen was just too stupid to take the deal.

And the Clown Man? Didn't want him then, and not willing to try and outbid everyone beating down his door now.

Oh wait. There is nobody beating down his door.

I Knew you'd go this route, but I was just stating what was offered for Trent, not that I wanted Clowney. If Miami could have gotten what they did for Tunsil, and an exchange for a decent WR, we could have easily gotten a 1st round pick instead of Clowney. But Miami got the deal, we didn't. You know why? Because Bruce Allen was a petty bitch.

Whether you want to believe it or not really doesn't matter to me, the consensus was a 1st round pick was available last year during the pre-season. Don't let your hatred for pothead baby to cloud facts, buddy.


As for the hatred for Snyder, like I said...he did what I wanted last season when I stopped watching games. He fired Gruden, consulted Joe Gibbs, fired Allen, and hired a new coach with a new front office structure in place.

He gets another 3 years from me to see if he has finally seen the writing on the wall.

Oh yeah, and remember this as you scroll past my post...Bruce Allen screwed us out of 1st round compensation for Trent Williams last pre-season, take off your Cry-Baby Pothead Hating Sunglasses buddy.
 
We can spin it any way we want...but the math is pretty simple here. A SB team gearing up for another run, one whose coach knows TW, just got that much better through the draft and trading squat for an All-Pro LT to replace the guy who unexpectedly retired. All the comforting cliches aside....it's a bidniz. The 49ers just got stronger in their push to get back to the SB. TW is probably laughing that the he is now playing the next season for a real contender. We eliminated a talented player but potential lockerrroom problem child - so there is that.

btw...as I recall..part of the case against TW was that he was 32 and over the hill. Fair enoiugh.....so the answer is Penn or some other older player? The only argument that makes sense to me, especially with the inexperienced Haskins a scant five games into his career, is the lockerrrom angle. But, from a strictly business pov (which is all the NFL is and cares about) the Skins were out-maneuvered. Personally, I was hoping the Riverboat Pilot could communicate in a way that TW's attitude would change. Didn't happen. TW/his team were intransigent...can't change that...and Rivera doesn't have whatever it is that makes humans follow a leader to the ends of the Earth. In the end, all I care about is success. I don't care about rationalizations and/or excuses.

This little drama has reached the end of its useful life. Let's press to seeing how JDR/Rivera scheme the talent on defense (the offenses in our division did get better this off-season) and how Norval II plans to re-energize our bottom dwelling offense.
 
I looked on the forum before posting. but no worries, I can simply not post.

That's obviously not what we want. I'm simply asking that you take a few extra seconds to format a thread title appropriately and be a little more discriminating when it comes to starting threads that might be more appropriate as posts. Nothing personal Ryman.
 
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But, from a strictly business pov (which is all the NFL is and cares about) the Skins were out-maneuvered. Personally, I was hoping the Riverboat Pilot could communicate in a way that TW's attitude would change. Didn't happen. TW/his team were intransigent...can't change that...and Rivera doesn't have whatever it is that makes humans follow a leader to the ends of the Earth. In the end, all I care about is success. I don't care about rationalizations and/or excuses.

And in an interview just tonight D-Hall said he talked to Trent about the first meeting with Rivera. Hall paraphrased, but essentially Trent felt slighted because Rivera actually wanted Trent to assure him he's a team player who wants to move forward.

Let that sink in for a minute...

Trent was mad at Rivera for suggesting Trent wasn't a team player after the drama that played out the previous season...for simply asking him if he was on board with the move forward.

You want Rivera to be able to lead a malcontent? Trent Williams wasn't lying when he said he would never play another game for Washington and through his agent, did all he could to get out.

YOU can call it out maneuvering, but what we just did was cut bait from dead weight. And it's becoming clearer to me, a guy who actually wanted Trent back for one more season because he was the best option from a pure talent POV.

As for the Donald Penn or Jason Peters, they are only a stop gap. We need to field a capable starting LT. Penn was serviceable last year. Peters was pretty good in Philly. Their age is a concern...which is why we don't sign them long term.


This little drama has reached the end of its useful life. Let's press to seeing how JDR/Rivera scheme the talent on defense (the offenses in our division did get better this off-season) and how Norval II plans to re-energize our bottom dwelling offense.

Don't expect miracles in year one. If you think it's going to take one off-season to right this ship, which has been steering off course for so long, then you're more cynical than I thought you were, Al.

Tell me, at what point to we give up completely on Ron Rivera and this new regime?

Before we even play a down with them? Come on Al, I consider you a friend so I say this with no malice in mind...that's just bat shit crazy.

Give it at least 2 years, likely 3 until we see tangible change. If we don't...then good riddance, and we'll all argue over the good and the bad the future holds from there.
 

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