2024 Roster Updates

What are the odds Forbes as the last pick made by Ron in Round 1 is on this team for the opener next year? 🥶
 
Rookie first round deals are written in a way to make it a little difficult to cut players. If he's on the roster in 25 is $4.2M. If he's released, that number jumps to $9M+ pre- june 1 / $7M post- june 1.
 
Peters and Quinn aren't carrying Forbes roster spot in 2025 just to save a few bucks when we have the most cap space in the league.

That's one reason Davis was cut. You lose the locker room when a player that is not up to NFL standards is kept on the team simply because of money.

From a competitive standpoint that's a killer.

I can understand when you have a veteran like a Russell Wilson or Watson you want to unload that dealing with a $60 or $70M cap hit is extreme, but paying Forbes $4M vs releasing him post June 1 at $7M is only $3M.

I think Forbes is on the team right now because the club has no real depth at corner and evidently the corners out there on the market are very expensive, so there's no harm in giving him another 7 or 8 games.
 
Bulldog said:
Peters and Quinn aren't carrying Forbes roster spot in 2025 just to save a few bucks when we have the most cap space in the league.

That's one reason Davis was cut. You lose the locker room when a player that is not up to NFL standards is kept on the team simply because of money.

From a competitive standpoint that's a killer.

I can understand when you have a veteran like a Russell Wilson or Watson you want to unload that dealing with a $60 or $70M cap hit is extreme, but paying Forbes $4M vs releasing him post June 1 at $7M is only $3M.

I think Forbes is on the team right now because the club has no real depth at corner and evidently the corners out there on the market are very expensive, so there's no harm in giving him another 7 or 8 games.
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Not exactly, you pay him 4M you have the player + you lose 4M. You cut him, you don't have the player and you lose 7M. So the difference is 3M less AND the player, vs. 3M more and you have to sign someone else. So the math has to include that differentiation. That is where what he truly brings to the table (or takes off) matters. I imagine that is why he is still here; I think he is well liked. I didn't know that about the rookie deals, SilentThreat - good info.
 
The other thing is that we don't actually know how they view him. For all we know, they see him as a serviceable guy who can be your 3rd string outside CB which may warrant that roster spot. That the value gained in cutting him to open up a roster spot and pay him $7m to 'go away' does not equal the 'cost' of keeping him here.

The other part is if you cut him, you've got to replace him, so he's got to be so bad that it's worth you spending that money to go away AND to pay someone else. In a situation where we are again likely to turn over a large part of the roster, as a lot of our current guys are on 1 year deals, paying him $4m to be the 5th CB on the roster may be a better value, than paying him $7m to go away AND having to find AND PAY a 5th CB on the roster to fill the void. It's a 3 dimensional conversation that's not as easy as 'cut' or 'keep.'

Right we're paying Michael Davis $3.1M and he's accounted for 32 snaps this season. It's likely we'd have to be paying a player more than $4M to come in here and replace Forbes as the 5th CB on the roster simply because of the market.

The x-factor here would be if we were able to draft a DB on day 3 that can fill the role at next to nothing. Bring in a CB1 whether that be via draft or FA, move everyone else down 1 slot, then get a surprise guy that cracks the roster making it worth paying Forbes to go away... but i don't think that can just be assumed.
 
A lot of great points made. I think Forbes future will be dependent on two things... how he performs the rest of the way in 2024, and what CBs are available at the spots we pick in the 2025 draft. I have no idea what they think of the guy, but the fact that they have yet to cut bait on him probably means they at a minimum feel he has some talent/potential.
 
Boone said:
A lot of great points made. I think Forbes future will be dependent on two things... how he performs the rest of the way in 2024, and what CBs are available at the spots we pick in the 2025 draft. I have no idea what they think of the guy, but the fact that they have yet to cut bait on him probably means they at a minimum feel he has some talent/potential.
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Agree, and I think it matters that his attitude is supposedly really good. If you are on the bubble for any reason (talent, situation, available replacements) sometimes having a solid attitude can make the difference. With Jamin, he had a fair amount of issues with the past regime, but *apparently* not so with the current regime. This short article is telling: https://sports.yahoo.com/commanders-dan-quinn-praises-jamin-093033743.html

Quinn seems to say his attitude has been solid. At the same time, he also seems to emphasize Jamin is not going to be here anymore (even on PS given the opportunity), so to me that is telling. Actions always speak louder than words, but I do think if you lie too much it becomes obvious and it catches up with you in other ways. I think these coaches (adults in the room, finally) know that, so I imagine Jamin wasn't bad to deal with and he just didn't have what they needed from him, on this team. We had better options, in their minds.
 
First on Davis: he will get a shot as a ST player and move back to LB. He’s just not big enough to play DE. He gives up 30-40 lbs on other DEs.

The issue is he could not make this team at LB given who we signed and drafted. So they tried him at edge.

He needs to go back to LB, find a home on a practice squad or as a ST guy, and actually get coached to be a LB. The coaching he received at LB was possibly the worst in the league under Ron and Jack.

I hope he gets a fresh start somewhere and somebody coaches him well.

In Forbes, from what I can gather from Bram, the staff likes him and his effort and the work he’s putting in. He was also abused last year by the sheer incompetence of the coaching staff. They probably have to fix his head as much as his technique. That might take time. But he as a consensus first round pick. Just lower than we took him. He has talent, even if he doesn’t have ideal size.

My guess is they’re going to try and see if he can do anything to help the team. This is his second year, and he has to both get his head right after being abused last year and actually get better technique. This will game time. He will be in camp next year. The question is, in what capacity? A roster lock, waiting to be cut, or competing for a roster spot.
 
I don't think Forbes being in camp next year is a lock at all. The narrative seems to have changed based on a single interception. I'm not discounting any of the other points you made Voice as they are valid. But the bottom line is, they are going to determine during the 2024 season if he is an NFL caliber DB. That'll be entirely based on performance. I think Peters has already clearly demonstrated he could care less where someone was drafted. There are 'consensus' high round guys every year that are complete busts. I don't know if Forbes is one of them. I have no idea what the coaches are saying - but at a minimum they seem to feel there is no benefit in cutting bait in year 2 when he was so badly managed his rookie year.

Maybe last week was a sign he is turning a corner and we will see a different player the rest of this season. I'm skeptical, but what do I know?
 
Just hope he can be that go to guy. Just needs to be utilize better IMHO!
 
Teams cut players and eat $3-4M all the time in the NFL.

If there are deserving players that would be cut and one of those guys at CB could be kept by releasing Forbes in 2025, then that’s exactly what I think they will do.

How much did the team write off by releasing Nick Gates? One year into a 3 year deal it must have been $2-3M.

We are not talking about serious cap altering circumstances in either regard.

We are not the Chiefs or 49ers with a lot of long term guaranteed deals.

That means we can afford to move on from mistakes.
 
Right. This was another really smart thing Peters did.

We’ve never seen such an active free agency period before and yet we still have one of the best cap situations in the league.
 
Voice_of_Reason said:
First on Davis: he will get a shot as a ST player and move back to LB. He’s just not big enough to play DE. He gives up 30-40 lbs on other DEs.

The issue is he could not make this team at LB given who we signed and drafted. So they tried him at edge.

He needs to go back to LB, find a home on a practice squad or as a ST guy, and actually get coached to be a LB. The coaching he received at LB was possibly the worst in the league under Ron and Jack.

I hope he gets a fresh start somewhere and somebody coaches him well.

In Forbes, from what I can gather from Bram, the staff likes him and his effort and the work he’s putting in. He was also abused last year by the sheer incompetence of the coaching staff. They probably have to fix his head as much as his technique. That might take time. But he as a consensus first round pick. Just lower than we took him. He has talent, even if he doesn’t have ideal size.

My guess is they’re going to try and see if he can do anything to help the team. This is his second year, and he has to both get his head right after being abused last year and actually get better technique. This will game time. He will be in camp next year. The question is, in what capacity? A roster lock, waiting to be cut, or competing for a roster spot.
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Davis has never played special teams
 
I think Zadarius Smith could be had for a late pick at 32.

We could definitely use the depth at DE if we aren't able to find a corner.

At 6-2 I think we can afford a rental.
 
I said this in the AP thread (I think) - AP’s number is top of every agents list of GMs to call when the 2025 season opens. We’ll be a desired destination for the first time since forever. rentals could easily turn into long term players.
 
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