A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Default Project the Starting 22

    Here is Rich Tandler's take on the starting 22 for the Skins in 2012.

    Agree? Disagree? If you disagree, what's your starting 22 look like?
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    Gaffney over Moss? I doubt that.
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    I'm gonna wait until after the draft and the June 1st Free Agents. We're nowhere near done with adding bodies to this roster.
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    Oh come on Fear. No guts, no glory, brother.
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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Gaffney over Moss? I doubt that.
    I don't know. We have to remember - Shanahan doesn't have years of admiration of Moss being a core Redskin to feel beholden to him. The Redskins lukewarm response to getting Fletcher re-signed may be an indicator this current Redskins front office values youth and raw numbers far more than a player's history of contribution. Gaffney was clearly the more productive WR last year. Couple that with hints that Moss has had some 'issues' on and off the field - he might well not be in their long-term plans.
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    But Gaffney wasn't "clearly" the more productive player, Boone. If you look at game averages, Moss had 3.83 catches per game to Gaffney's 4.25, which is nearly a wash. Granted, Gaffney averaged just over a yard per catch more than Moss did but he only had 1 more TD for the season than 'Tana while playing 4 more games.

    On top of that, Gaffney only had one great game with Moss out of the line up. He really hit is stride as far as consistency is concerned late in the year once Moss was back from his injury and defenses were once again concerned with the guy most people consider our #1.

    I think it's something of a wash right now, personally, although I think with a serious threat on the other side Moss is better suited to take advantage of other team's second CB due to his speed and quickness.
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    Neo, I think it may also be that Moss is better suited for the slot.
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    And I don't have any issues in that. In fact, I'm not sure that my starting 22 doesn't have a 3 WR set with Moss in the slot and no FB.

    My point wasn't that Moss should absolutely be starting but rather than Gaffney wasn't "clearly" better than Moss last year. I think there is real room for argument one way or the other.
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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    But Gaffney wasn't "clearly" the more productive player, Boone. If you look at game averages, Moss had 3.83 catches per game to Gaffney's 4.25, which is nearly a wash. Granted, Gaffney averaged just over a yard per catch more than Moss did but he only had 1 more TD for the season than 'Tana while playing 4 more games.

    On top of that, Gaffney only had one great game with Moss out of the line up. He really hit is stride as far as consistency is concerned late in the year once Moss was back from his injury and defenses were once again concerned with the guy most people consider our #1.

    I think it's something of a wash right now, personally, although I think with a serious threat on the other side Moss is better suited to take advantage of other team's second CB due to his speed and quickness.
    It may not have been an overwhelming superiority Neo, but Gaffney had 68 catches to 46 for Santana, 947 yards to 584, and a slight edge in yards/reception. Granted, he did it over 16 games vs. just 12 for Moss - but that's part of it as well, right? You can't contribute if you're injured and Moss hasn't been entirely healthy in 3 or 4 years.

    I'm not saying there's a big difference, but I don't think it's hard to imagine Gaffney getting the nod over Moss this year. If they're both here by then, it may come down to who has the better chemistry with our new QB.
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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    It may not have been an overwhelming superiority Neo, but Gaffney had 68 catches to 46 for Santana, 947 yards to 584, and a slight edge in yards/reception. Granted, he did it over 16 games vs. just 12 for Moss - but that's part of it as well, right? You can't contribute if you're injured and Moss hasn't been entirely healthy in 3 or 4 years.

    I'm not saying there's a big difference, but I don't think it's hard to imagine Gaffney getting the nod over Moss this year. If they're both here by then, it may come down to who has the better chemistry with our new QB.
    I think the phrase in bold may be a key. Things may be looked at a bit differently if you're thinking of RGIII or even Luck throwing the football as opposed to Rex Grossman making the ol' heave when it comes to deciding which WR should be where...or be in the slot...or #1 or #2 or whatever.
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    I'm giving it a 2-4 year window. Looking for improvement in all areas. Redskins, you're on the clock.

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    Virginia

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    In the spirit of the OP...

    Starters On Offense
    WR - Pierre Garçon
    WR - Jabar Gaffney
    TE - Fred Davis
    RB - Roy Helu
    FB - Darrel Young
    QB - Robert Griffin III
    LT - Trent Williams
    LG - Maurice Hurt
    C - Will Montgomery
    RG - Chris Chester
    RT - Bobby Massie

    Major Contributors On Offense
    WR - Josh Morgan, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Ryan Broyles
    TE - Chris Cooley, Logan Paulsen
    RB - Evan Royster, Robert Turbin
    T - Willie Smith, Tyler Polumbus, Nate Potter
    G - Chilo Rachal, Kory Lichtensteiger

    Starters On Defense
    DE - Jarvis Jenkins
    DE - Stephen Bowen
    NT - Barry Cofield
    OLB - Brian Orakpo
    OLB - Ryan Kerrigan
    ILB - Perry Riley
    ILB - London Fletcher
    CB - DeAngelo Hall
    CB - Josh Wilson
    FS - Cedric Griffin
    SS - Brandon Meriweather

    Major Contributors On Defense
    DE - Adam Carriker, Kentwan Balmer
    NT - Chris Neild, Doug Worthington
    LB - Lorenzo Alexander, Markus White, Rob Jackson
    CB - Kevin Barnes, Brandyn Thompson
    S - DeJon Gomes, Reed Doughty, George Iloka

    Special Teams
    Brandon Banks
    Sav Rocca
    Graham Gano
    Nick Sundberg
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  12. #12
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    Michigan State

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    I find this thread depressing. Looking at most of these lists the only changes appear to be RG3, Pierre Garcon, the safeties and perhaps Jarvis Jenkins coming back from his injury. I don't see that as enough to add more than a couple of wins, especially considering the learning curve that necessarily accompanies all rookie QBs. There needs to be more to get more. Our secondary looks weak. I hope there is someone else on the horizon.

    BB, I see you have Bobby Massie on your list. I hope so, but I think he'll be gone by the third round when we pick.

    Ah well, I can put up with 8-8 if things look to be on the upswing.
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    China,

    I'm not saying this will happen but consider what could happen if Griffin were to have a Cam Newton type year. Hell, even if his year is in the same ballpark. We lost 5 games last year by a TD or less. 7 games by 11 or less. And we did it with really bad play at the quarterback position.

    Rex Grossman, with 8 years experience in the NFL, played in 3 and a half fewer games than rookie Cam Newton yet had 3 MORE INTs. He had 7 more INTs than rookie Andy Dalton. He also lost 3 more fumbles than either Newton or Dalton. Both rookies threw for more yards, had a higher completion percentage and, in the case of Dalton, took fewer sacks than Sexy Rexy too.

    Now I know that no two circumstances are the same so you compare at your own risk but consider what last years roster might have done with even the play of one of these rookies from under center. I think either Griffin or Luck can give us that.

    If you go back up to the top paragraph and look at it again, keeping this information in mind, you see that last years roster was a QB away from finishing with between 10 and 12 wins. Even a rookie QB away.

    I don't know about you but that kind of gives me some hope.
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    with all those huge numbers Newton put up, what was their record again?

    I dont see Jarvis starting over carriker coming off a knee injury, I do hope he contributes in a rotation though. I hope that Morgan and garcon start after what we paid them, Davis better light it up for what we will be paying him and I dont see our defence improving much if at all, unless Rak suddenly has the light turn on and starts playing more instinctively and less mechanically, its a testament to how athletic he is that he is still solid despite having so few pass rush moves. Kerrigan will improve, London will decline but Riley should improve. Im hoping Morris gets our corner play to improve.

    I disagree about how close we were last year the truth is we won games we should have lost more often than we lost games we should have won, I think we will be improved, but the rams will have a top ten pick from us. too many holes on D and the Oline.
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    Couple of things, Ry. First, do we really want Sleepy to "light it up"?

    More importantly, what was the Panthers' record BEFORE Cam came? 2-14, which he improved by four wins last year. Neo's argument is not about win total isolated, but about improvement from year to year with a competent QB. I think Neo is saying that with mediocre or competent QB play, the Skins can look for a better record next year. Given just how dreadful Rex was, I don't think that's too much of a stretch.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    with all those huge numbers Newton put up, what was their record again?
    6-10

    However they were 5th best in the league in scoring offense at 25.4 points per game. Their record sucked because their defense was 6th worst in the league at giving up points at 26.8 points per game. You don't win a majority of your games by giving 1.4 more points than you score.

    We, on the other hand, averaged scoring just 18 points per game with Rex, or 7.5 points per game less than Carolina.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    I dont see Jarvis starting over carriker coming off a knee injury, I do hope he contributes in a rotation though. I hope that Morgan and garcon start after what we paid them, Davis better light it up for what we will be paying him and I dont see our defence improving much if at all, unless Rak suddenly has the light turn on and starts playing more instinctively and less mechanically, its a testament to how athletic he is that he is still solid despite having so few pass rush moves. Kerrigan will improve, London will decline but Riley should improve. Im hoping Morris gets our corner play to improve.
    I think the defense will improve. I think Jenkins will be a better rotational player than Golston so the line will play better although I agree that Carriker likely starts the year. Not sure if he is finishes it the starter though. I think Riley and Kerrigan both improve and I think the secondary will get better with Morris providing some real coaching there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    I disagree about how close we were last year the truth is we won games we should have lost more often than we lost games we should have won, I think we will be improved, but the rams will have a top ten pick from us. too many holes on D and the Oline.
    That is your opinion. I disagree and I think I have put up enough numbers to at least present a solid argument. I don't think the Rams get a top 10 from us in 2013 either. +/-3 spots of middle of the 1st round at best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Couple of things, Ry. First, do we really want Sleepy to "light it up"?
    Zing! Well done, Goal.
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    My take at the starting 22:

    QB: RG3
    RB: Roy Helu
    FB: Darrell Young
    WR: Pierre Garçon
    WR: Leonard Hankerson
    TE: Fred Davis
    LT: Trent Williams
    LG: Eric Cook
    OC: Will Montgomery
    RG: Chris Chester
    RT: Jammal Brown

    DE: Adam Carriker
    DE: Stephen Bowen
    NT: Barry Cofield
    OLB: Ryan Kerrigan
    OLB: Brian Orakpo
    ILB: London Fletcher
    ILB: Perry Riley
    CB: Josh Wilson
    CB: Brandyn Thompson
    SS: Brandon Meriweather
    FS: Cedric Griffin

    Surprise moves: Redskins trade DeAngelo Hall + a 4th for a 2nd round pick, take Stephon Gilmore, Jayron Hosely or Alfonzo Dennard. Possibly, if his drug scandal scares enough teams, Dre Kirkpatrick.
    Last edited by Lanky Livingston; 03-26-12 at 10:12 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Surprise moves: Redskins trade DeAngelo Hall + a 4th for a 2nd round pick, take Stephon Gilmore, Jayron Hosely or Alfonzo Dennard. Possibly, if his drug scandal scares enough teams, Dre Kirkpatrick.
    You must be eating your oats lately because it has been one bold proclamation after another.

    Dre Kirkpatrick in the 2nd round? Ha! I'll take it, but...

    And in your starting lineup:

    Eric Cook? If Licht is healthy, he will get the nod at that position. And I think Willie Smith will get the nod over Jamaal Brown.

    Hank? If he wasn't coming off injury and had strung together a few more games like we saw in his first start last year, but I think Gaffney gets the nod.

    I do think Carriker gets the nod over Jarvis Jenkins.
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    Really El? He picked us to start only 9 players on D, and trading DHall was the surprise move?

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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

 

 

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