Project the Starting 22

Oh come on Fear. No guts, no glory, brother. ;)
 
McD5 said:
Gaffney over Moss? I doubt that.
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I don't know. We have to remember - Shanahan doesn't have years of admiration of Moss being a core Redskin to feel beholden to him. The Redskins lukewarm response to getting Fletcher re-signed may be an indicator this current Redskins front office values youth and raw numbers far more than a player's history of contribution. Gaffney was clearly the more productive WR last year. Couple that with hints that Moss has had some 'issues' on and off the field - he might well not be in their long-term plans.
 
But Gaffney wasn't "clearly" the more productive player, Boone. If you look at game averages, Moss had 3.83 catches per game to Gaffney's 4.25, which is nearly a wash. Granted, Gaffney averaged just over a yard per catch more than Moss did but he only had 1 more TD for the season than 'Tana while playing 4 more games.

On top of that, Gaffney only had one great game with Moss out of the line up. He really hit is stride as far as consistency is concerned late in the year once Moss was back from his injury and defenses were once again concerned with the guy most people consider our #1.

I think it's something of a wash right now, personally, although I think with a serious threat on the other side Moss is better suited to take advantage of other team's second CB due to his speed and quickness.
 
Neo, I think it may also be that Moss is better suited for the slot.
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And I don't have any issues in that. In fact, I'm not sure that my starting 22 doesn't have a 3 WR set with Moss in the slot and no FB.

My point wasn't that Moss should absolutely be starting but rather than Gaffney wasn't "clearly" better than Moss last year. I think there is real room for argument one way or the other.
 
Neophyte said:
But Gaffney wasn't "clearly" the more productive player, Boone. If you look at game averages, Moss had 3.83 catches per game to Gaffney's 4.25, which is nearly a wash. Granted, Gaffney averaged just over a yard per catch more than Moss did but he only had 1 more TD for the season than 'Tana while playing 4 more games.

On top of that, Gaffney only had one great game with Moss out of the line up. He really hit is stride as far as consistency is concerned late in the year once Moss was back from his injury and defenses were once again concerned with the guy most people consider our #1.

I think it's something of a wash right now, personally, although I think with a serious threat on the other side Moss is better suited to take advantage of other team's second CB due to his speed and quickness.
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It may not have been an overwhelming superiority Neo, but Gaffney had 68 catches to 46 for Santana, 947 yards to 584, and a slight edge in yards/reception. Granted, he did it over 16 games vs. just 12 for Moss - but that's part of it as well, right? You can't contribute if you're injured and Moss hasn't been entirely healthy in 3 or 4 years.

I'm not saying there's a big difference, but I don't think it's hard to imagine Gaffney getting the nod over Moss this year. If they're both here by then, it may come down to who has the better chemistry with our new QB.
 
Boone said:
It may not have been an overwhelming superiority Neo, but Gaffney had 68 catches to 46 for Santana, 947 yards to 584, and a slight edge in yards/reception. Granted, he did it over 16 games vs. just 12 for Moss - but that's part of it as well, right? You can't contribute if you're injured and Moss hasn't been entirely healthy in 3 or 4 years.

I'm not saying there's a big difference, but I don't think it's hard to imagine Gaffney getting the nod over Moss this year. If they're both here by then, it may come down to who has the better chemistry with our new QB.
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I think the phrase in bold may be a key. Things may be looked at a bit differently if you're thinking of RGIII or even Luck throwing the football as opposed to Rex Grossman making the ol' heave when it comes to deciding which WR should be where...or be in the slot...or #1 or #2 or whatever.
 
In the spirit of the OP...

Starters On Offense
WR - Pierre Garçon
WR - Jabar Gaffney
TE - Fred Davis
RB - Roy Helu
FB - Darrel Young
QB - Robert Griffin III
LT - Trent Williams
LG - Maurice Hurt
C - Will Montgomery
RG - Chris Chester
RT - Bobby Massie

Major Contributors On Offense
WR - Josh Morgan, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Ryan Broyles
TE - Chris Cooley, Logan Paulsen
RB - Evan Royster, Robert Turbin
T - Willie Smith, Tyler Polumbus, Nate Potter
G - Chilo Rachal, Kory Lichtensteiger

Starters On Defense
DE - Jarvis Jenkins
DE - Stephen Bowen
NT - Barry Cofield
OLB - Brian Orakpo
OLB - Ryan Kerrigan
ILB - Perry Riley
ILB - London Fletcher
CB - DeAngelo Hall
CB - Josh Wilson
FS - Cedric Griffin
SS - Brandon Meriweather

Major Contributors On Defense
DE - Adam Carriker, Kentwan Balmer
NT - Chris Neild, Doug Worthington
LB - Lorenzo Alexander, Markus White, Rob Jackson
CB - Kevin Barnes, Brandyn Thompson
S - DeJon Gomes, Reed Doughty, George Iloka

Special Teams
Brandon Banks
Sav Rocca
Graham Gano
Nick Sundberg
 
I find this thread depressing. Looking at most of these lists the only changes appear to be RG3, Pierre Garcon, the safeties and perhaps Jarvis Jenkins coming back from his injury. I don't see that as enough to add more than a couple of wins, especially considering the learning curve that necessarily accompanies all rookie QBs. There needs to be more to get more. Our secondary looks weak. I hope there is someone else on the horizon.

BB, I see you have Bobby Massie on your list. I hope so, but I think he'll be gone by the third round when we pick.

Ah well, I can put up with 8-8 if things look to be on the upswing.
 
China,

I'm not saying this will happen but consider what could happen if Griffin were to have a Cam Newton type year. Hell, even if his year is in the same ballpark. We lost 5 games last year by a TD or less. 7 games by 11 or less. And we did it with really bad play at the quarterback position.

Rex Grossman, with 8 years experience in the NFL, played in 3 and a half fewer games than rookie Cam Newton yet had 3 MORE INTs. He had 7 more INTs than rookie Andy Dalton. He also lost 3 more fumbles than either Newton or Dalton. Both rookies threw for more yards, had a higher completion percentage and, in the case of Dalton, took fewer sacks than Sexy Rexy too.

Now I know that no two circumstances are the same so you compare at your own risk but consider what last years roster might have done with even the play of one of these rookies from under center. I think either Griffin or Luck can give us that.

If you go back up to the top paragraph and look at it again, keeping this information in mind, you see that last years roster was a QB away from finishing with between 10 and 12 wins. Even a rookie QB away.

I don't know about you but that kind of gives me some hope.
 
with all those huge numbers Newton put up, what was their record again?

I dont see Jarvis starting over carriker coming off a knee injury, I do hope he contributes in a rotation though. I hope that Morgan and garcon start after what we paid them, Davis better light it up for what we will be paying him and I dont see our defence improving much if at all, unless Rak suddenly has the light turn on and starts playing more instinctively and less mechanically, its a testament to how athletic he is that he is still solid despite having so few pass rush moves. Kerrigan will improve, London will decline but Riley should improve. Im hoping Morris gets our corner play to improve.

I disagree about how close we were last year the truth is we won games we should have lost more often than we lost games we should have won, I think we will be improved, but the rams will have a top ten pick from us. too many holes on D and the Oline.
 
Couple of things, Ry. First, do we really want Sleepy to "light it up"?

More importantly, what was the Panthers' record BEFORE Cam came? 2-14, which he improved by four wins last year. Neo's argument is not about win total isolated, but about improvement from year to year with a competent QB. I think Neo is saying that with mediocre or competent QB play, the Skins can look for a better record next year. Given just how dreadful Rex was, I don't think that's too much of a stretch.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
with all those huge numbers Newton put up, what was their record again?
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6-10

However they were 5th best in the league in scoring offense at 25.4 points per game. Their record sucked because their defense was 6th worst in the league at giving up points at 26.8 points per game. You don't win a majority of your games by giving 1.4 more points than you score.

We, on the other hand, averaged scoring just 18 points per game with Rex, or 7.5 points per game less than Carolina.

Rymanofthenorth said:
I dont see Jarvis starting over carriker coming off a knee injury, I do hope he contributes in a rotation though. I hope that Morgan and garcon start after what we paid them, Davis better light it up for what we will be paying him and I dont see our defence improving much if at all, unless Rak suddenly has the light turn on and starts playing more instinctively and less mechanically, its a testament to how athletic he is that he is still solid despite having so few pass rush moves. Kerrigan will improve, London will decline but Riley should improve. Im hoping Morris gets our corner play to improve.
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I think the defense will improve. I think Jenkins will be a better rotational player than Golston so the line will play better although I agree that Carriker likely starts the year. Not sure if he is finishes it the starter though. I think Riley and Kerrigan both improve and I think the secondary will get better with Morris providing some real coaching there.

Rymanofthenorth said:
I disagree about how close we were last year the truth is we won games we should have lost more often than we lost games we should have won, I think we will be improved, but the rams will have a top ten pick from us. too many holes on D and the Oline.
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That is your opinion. I disagree and I think I have put up enough numbers to at least present a solid argument. I don't think the Rams get a top 10 from us in 2013 either. +/-3 spots of middle of the 1st round at best.
 
My take at the starting 22:

QB: RG3
RB: Roy Helu
FB: Darrell Young
WR: Pierre Garçon
WR: Leonard Hankerson
TE: Fred Davis
LT: Trent Williams
LG: Eric Cook
OC: Will Montgomery
RG: Chris Chester
RT: Jammal Brown

DE: Adam Carriker
DE: Stephen Bowen
NT: Barry Cofield
OLB: Ryan Kerrigan
OLB: Brian Orakpo
ILB: London Fletcher
ILB: Perry Riley
CB: Josh Wilson
CB: Brandyn Thompson
SS: Brandon Meriweather
FS: Cedric Griffin

Surprise moves: Redskins trade DeAngelo Hall + a 4th for a 2nd round pick, take Stephon Gilmore, Jayron Hosely or Alfonzo Dennard. Possibly, if his drug scandal scares enough teams, Dre Kirkpatrick. :D
 
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Lanky Livingston said:
Surprise moves: Redskins trade DeAngelo Hall + a 4th for a 2nd round pick, take Stephon Gilmore, Jayron Hosely or Alfonzo Dennard. Possibly, if his drug scandal scares enough teams, Dre Kirkpatrick. :D
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You must be eating your oats lately because it has been one bold proclamation after another. :thumbsup:

Dre Kirkpatrick in the 2nd round? Ha! I'll take it, but...

And in your starting lineup:

Eric Cook? If Licht is healthy, he will get the nod at that position. And I think Willie Smith will get the nod over Jamaal Brown.

Hank? If he wasn't coming off injury and had strung together a few more games like we saw in his first start last year, but I think Gaffney gets the nod.

I do think Carriker gets the nod over Jarvis Jenkins.
 
Really El? He picked us to start only 9 players on D, and trading DHall was the surprise move?

:)
 
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