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Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    Default The Contrarian Viewpoint: Grossman can play

    I've watched Rex Grossman for 3 games, and I've come to a conclusion most won't want to hear.

    Grossman has what it takes to be a starting NFL QB.

    Yeah, yeah...I know...am I talking about 'Good Rex' or 'Bad Rex'? What about all those interceptions? What about his weak arm and inability to get the ball downfield? What about this being 'Rex Grossman' we're talking about?

    Lets take it a question at a time.

    First of all, Grossman was thrown into the fire in Chicago. He experienced wild success and horrible failure. Frankly, I just have to think his youth, maturity level, and level of confidence wasn't such that he could handle what he faced there. I don't know Grossman. I never roomed with him. But seeing every interview he's given over the past 3 weeks, I get the sense he's not a kid anymore. I get the sense that he believes he belongs in the NFL and wants to get out there and prove all the naysayers wrong.

    I get the feeling he is a hungry quarterback. I can't prove that - I just like what I hear from him and think there might be more to this guys character than he's been given credit for.

    Now to his ability to play. Grossman has done a hell of a job in his 3 starts. Given that he hadn't played a regular season snap all year, and was thrust into the starters role under a lot of pressure, he has outperformed the supposed Pro Bowler he replaced. And it really hasn't been close. He was, overall, something we haven't seen in awhile in a Redskins quarterback....effective. He put drives together, sometimes long ones. He appeared to read defenses. He completed passes to lots of different weapons. When nothing was there, he got rid of the ball.

    He also threw interceptions, and fumbled the ball. More than a couple times. But if you look at the majority of those 'mistakes', such as those that he was involved in today, more than a couple were caused by blind side hits from guys twice his size, receivers running incorrect routes. That's not excusing Grossman. Did he throw picks that were entirely on him? Yes. Like every NFL quarterback does. But overall, I thought his decision-making and performance over a 3 game stretch was pretty impressive given the circumstances and his supporting cast.

    Looking at the stats, Grossman had two 300+ yard games in three starts, completed 56% of his passes, threw for 7 touchdowns, and threw 4 interceptions. His passer rating for those 3 games was 81.2 That's not Pro Bowl level play. But it's not evidence of a choke artist, a head case, or a washed up NFL quarterback either. What might we expect of a Rex Grossman given all of the prep work of the off-season, pre-season, and a full 16 game schedule with better protection?

    As for the supposed lack of arm strength, I'm sorry - but I don't see it. Grossman has plenty of arm, as he showed today making several impressive downfield throws. He has a tendency to throw occasional goose eggs, but he does so almost exclusively when trying to make something happen at the last minute, or as he tries to elude the pass rush when his feet aren't planted. But in the pocket, he's got a solid arm.

    So what's all this mean? Am I in love with Grossman? Is everything we ever saw, heard, or read about the guy pre-DC just flat out wrong?

    No on all counts.

    But he's not the same QB who got run out of Chicago. The guy can play. Better than Mcnabb. Better than a lot of QBs we've given a chance on this team.

    I hope the Redskins give him a 3 year deal and bring him back as starter in 2011. I'd like to see what he could do as the presumptive starter while we look for our next great franchise quarterback.

    Have at me guys.
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  2. #2

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    Let's trade down, address some needs and pick up Andy Dalton of TCU(maybe 3rd round?).

    Let him be Rex's caddy for a year..year and a half and turn the team over to him.

    I think Rex is more than capable of being a stop gap, while we get other areas of the team straightened out.
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    Pretty much agree. I'm intrigued. The offense is much better with him at the helm. At the least, he looks like he could be the stop gap McNabb was supposed to be. He could turn out to be quite good. For sure his decision making has been fine, IMO. The pocket was eroding quickly and he showed some ability to get the ball out quickly.
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    I have no argument with this, Boone. I completely agree. I wish we had done it last year and kept our 2nd round pick.
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    why would we have at you? its not popular, but its correct, from what we have seen in limited time he will be a solid player for us to use while we build a solid team. Thats good news not bad, finally something this FO did right, knowing our luck we will let him go to carolina for nothing.
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    I completely disagree. Counting on Rex Grossman and all his limitations to beat GOOD teams? not the down on their luck chumps we played the last three games of the season. not a chance.

    you appear to have a selective memory. all those batted passes? what do those correlate to in the bigger picture?

    the rather poor third down efficiency today?

    the turnovers do matter. and he is all-Pro in that category...no argument here.

    ask yourself this: amongst Vick, Romo, Manning and Grossman...who would most assess as least capable QB in the NFC East? entering a battle with one arm tied behind one's back doesn't strike me as a strategy for success.

    INTERIM at best. really good teams will eat Grossman alive.
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    best of a bas set of options ? absolutely? but did he run this offence and actually sustain some drives when given the same cast as Mcrapp who didnt? yes.

    I wouldnt want him as a long term solution but I think you can use him while we build the team and he wont embarass us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    best of a bas set of options ? absolutely? but did he run this offence and actually sustain some drives when given the same cast as Mcrapp who didnt? yes.

    I wouldnt want him as a long term solution but I think you can use him while we build the team and he wont embarass us.
    he managed the short game. at his worst...McNugget was still infinitely better at the long passing game and mobility. Rex is a turnover machine under pressure. and he isn't playing with the crappola O-line McNabb had to endure.

    "ran the offense" is a relative phrase. ran it compared to what standard? if all this offense can manage is 14 points then we need to dump the offense. I don't believe that is the case...so attention should focus elsewhere.

    can you image the team restocking to a capable point, competitive and relying on Rex Grossman in a tight game against a quality team to pull it out in the last minute? I can't. too many flaws.

    Interim at best. Something we will have to suffer through while waiting for the QB for the next decade.
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    It is the New Year...so I pass a thumb's up for the unintended humor in this thread!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    I completely disagree. Counting on Rex Grossman and all his limitations to beat GOOD teams? not the down on their luck chumps we played the last three games of the season. not a chance.

    you appear to have a selective memory. all those batted passes? what do those correlate to in the bigger picture?

    the rather poor third down efficiency today?

    the turnovers do matter. and he is all-Pro in that category...no argument here.

    ask yourself this: amongst Vick, Romo, Manning and Grossman...who would most assess as least capable QB in the NFC East? entering a battle with one arm tied behind one's back doesn't strike me as a strategy for success.

    INTERIM at best. really good teams will eat Grossman alive.
    First of all, AT (an improving) Dallas, and AT Jacksonville (still playing for their playoff lives), and home against a desperate Giants team hardly qualify as 'down on their luck chumps'. Dallas - arguably, but even they were a game opponent. He played who was on the schedule.

    You're right on the batted passes - although that has very little to do with ability, and a lot to do with height - at 6' 1" he's going to have more problems with that than prototypical QBs. You can quibble about today's 3rd down efficiency - but that's on everyone, not just Grossman, and on several drives Rex didn't need 3rd down conversions because he efficiently drove us down the field.

    You're wrong on the turnovers. And I'd reiterate that I'm assessing Grossman on the past 3 games, not on his career or rep (which honestly, you seem to be basing your view on). Grossman threw almost twice as many TD passes as INTs in his 3 games. I'll take that any day. One of those interceptions was in garbage/desperation time with the clock expiring, and two others appear to have involved receivers blowing routes (Sellers blew the route on one of today's picks for example). I'm not excusing them, I just think when assessing 'turnovers', you have to look beyond the stat number.

    And the 'Vick, Romo, Manning' argument is just a red herring. We don't have any of those guys on the roster. My point is that Grossman has played relatively well (and he has), and that I'd like to see him get a full year to see if he can play at an even higher level. We don't have, currently, a better option.
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    You know where I stand on this topic and since the beginning of the season, my view has not changed. No need to elaborate on that point any further.

    I believe RG gives us the luxury of trading down in the draft for more picks and gives a year to find the QB of the future. Package AH and DMc5 for more picks and be semi-aggressive in free agency is my choice this offseason.

    It looks like we will have the 8th pick and if Cam Newton is there, it would be very tempting. I have a contrarian view of RG and yes, I have the same regards for Newton. However, it is good to have such a choice and we can know that RG will provide us with good, steady play. Perhaps he could be more than just serviceable for the next four or five years. Field a great team and all RG needs to do is be good. Great would be nice, but the Redskins won three Super Bowls with good QBs. Not great, but good enough to do the job.

    Keep RG and build where we need it most.
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  12. #12
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    I dont want Cam newton, I could be wrong but I doubt it, he just doesnt seem to have the right skill set to be more than a bigger Randall Cunningham. so im with BB and Boone, there is no reason to rush to grab a QB unless its one we are sure isnt gonna bust , id rather build the team and then give a young guy a fair shot at winning, than drop a kid out of college into the fire with an unestablished oline, no running game and no safety net on defence.

    the way we are right now there is no way we dont throw a kid in to play right away because we have nothing to lose, the problem is that we also dont have a good oline, enough playmakers or a decent defence to help with the pressure to win games.

    You can win without a superlative QB as long as you have an identity and stick to it. we dont yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymanofthenorth View Post
    I dont want Cam newton, I could be wrong but I doubt it, he just doesnt seem to have the right skill set to be more than a bigger Randall Cunningham. so im with BB and Boone, there is no reason to rush to grab a QB unless its one we are sure isnt gonna bust , id rather build the team and then give a young guy a fair shot at winning, than drop a kid out of college into the fire with an unestablished oline, no running game and no safety net on defence.

    the way we are right now there is no way we dont throw a kid in to play right away because we have nothing to lose, the problem is that we also dont have a good oline, enough playmakers or a decent defence to help with the pressure to win games.

    You can win without a superlative QB as long as you have an identity and stick to it. we dont yet.

    look...you either have a great QB who makes those around him better...or great talent that carries the QB. which are the Skins going to develop first?

    this is almost guaranteed: we'll all be sitting around the BGO campfire inside of 8 games next season thrashing Grossman for some game his turnovers lost.

    you can't win with a QB who can't even see over his o-linemen! how many blocked passes in how many games now? how many fumbles? how many picks? how many stalled 2 min drives? how many passes off the back foot while scambling (i.e., bad decision-making) that hang like floating ducks? it's not that Grossman doesn't do good things...it's that it's in his genetic makeup to do stupid things at the same time. all part of the package.

    what I'm hearing is this: the baby may be the ugliest in the State....but it's our baby!
    Last edited by fansince62; 01-03-11 at 08:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy Burner View Post
    You know where I stand on this topic and since the beginning of the season, my view has not changed. No need to elaborate on that point any further.

    I believe RG gives us the luxury of trading down in the draft for more picks and gives a year to find the QB of the future. Package AH and DMc5 for more picks and be semi-aggressive in free agency is my choice this offseason.

    It looks like we will have the 8th pick and if Cam Newton is there, it would be very tempting. I have a contrarian view of RG and yes, I have the same regards for Newton. However, it is good to have such a choice and we can know that RG will provide us with good, steady play. Perhaps he could be more than just serviceable for the next four or five years. Field a great team and all RG needs to do is be good. Great would be nice, but the Redskins won three Super Bowls with good QBs. Not great, but good enough to do the job.

    Keep RG and build where we need it most.

    I admire your positive outlook. aside from his turnover proclivities....RG obviously doesn't have the physical talents. the best defenses will exploit him to the max....we'll never, ever be able to compete against those teams with Rex at the helm.

    I get the dyanmic here: the team has boxed itself in so so we need to settle for the possible/available. ugggggh.....it's gonna be ugly. this one is entirely predictable. ocassional wins mixed with idiotic losses.
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    A co-worker of mine, who is a Bears fan and has been suffering almost as long as we have, sent thisto me.

    I guess it was going around Bears country when Rex was there

    Bad langauge but funny as hell

    http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...downfield.html
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    I think Grossman has proved he is a capable backup, and/or he can hold down the fort for half a season while we develop a rookie. He is not, in my opinion, a long term solution. He is not a solid starter, let alone a potential franchise QB. Capable backups come into three game stretches and look decent all the time. That's their job.

    I disagree that there was a lot of pressure on him these past three weeks. As is the case with most backups who jump into the role for a few games, he's in a nothing-to-lose situation. There's no pressure at all. We won't see him under pressure until he's officially declared The Man at the start of a season. Then we'll see how he handles the big chair.

    As for interviews or my impressions as to whether or not he's 'hungry' well, I don't put a ton of stock in that. Either we win games or we don't. Either we score a lot or we don't. And the fact is the only time we scored a lot with Rex Grossman was in a game where we found ourselves behind by 20 points in the second half. Other than that our offense wasn't any more prolific than it was under McNabb, who apparently moved the ball on talent alone without any regard for the vaunted system.

    Sadly, I have a feeling that the front office agrees with you, Boone. That Grossman is secretly a franchise QB waiting to burst free from a career of mediocrity. I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong and you are right.
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    That’s a reasoned argument Boone but I’m not sure Grossman is the answer here in DC as anything other than a stop gap. Why do I think that? Well, he’s a guy who has had a chance before to be “the man” and couldn’t get the job done. He would have games here and there when he was in Chicago that would tease the fans into thinking that he had turned the corner only to disappoint time and time again. I don’t want to see that here. Can he run the offense? It looks that way, but he lacks a lot of the intangibles that you have to have in a number one QB. It’s hard for me to believe we can’t find a young hungry QB right out of college who could learn the offense AND be able to bring something more to the table. Why should we settle?

    To Ryman’s point the Steelers were able to get by for the first four games this season without Ben because they know exactly who they are and how they go about winning ball games. We don’t yet. If we had an identity as a defensive team or a running team you can hide inconsistent QB play to a point. The Bears did it with Grossman when they made their Super Bowl run a few years back. Eventually you’ll be exposed though. If the Bears thought he was a real contributor to that run they would have kept him. They didn’t.

    It’s time to stop looking for “The Miracle Kid” to come off some other team’s practice squad or some reject from another team to come in and start for us. We need to draft a guy who can develop into the man for the next ten years. Come on Mike, make it happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I think Grossman has proved he is a capable backup, and/or he can hold down the fort for half a season while we develop a rookie. He is not, in my opinion, a long term solution. He is not a solid starter, let alone a potential franchise QB. Capable backups come into three game stretches and look decent all the time. That's their job.
    Todd Collins anyone?

    I have to agree with those that say he'd be OK as an interim guy while we get and develop a rookie QB.

    Too many turnovers, I don't care how you parse it. It seems he gives up almost as many points as gets. He makes it difficult for an already weak defense, except when they're pick-6s and the defense doesn't even have to come on the field. The Redskins are the 2nd lowest scoring team in the NFL since 1992. We can't afford to give away points especially since we can't seem to make them up.
    Last edited by China; 01-03-11 at 11:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I think Grossman has proved he is a capable backup, and/or he can hold down the fort for half a season while we develop a rookie. He is not, in my opinion, a long term solution. He is not a solid starter, let alone a potential franchise QB. Capable backups come into three game stretches and look decent all the time. That's their job.

    I disagree that there was a lot of pressure on him these past three weeks. As is the case with most backups who jump into the role for a few games, he's in a nothing-to-lose situation. There's no pressure at all. We won't see him under pressure until he's officially declared The Man at the start of a season. Then we'll see how he handles the big chair.

    As for interviews or my impressions as to whether or not he's 'hungry' well, I don't put a ton of stock in that. Either we win games or we don't. Either we score a lot or we don't. And the fact is the only time we scored a lot with Rex Grossman was in a game where we found ourselves behind by 20 points in the second half. Other than that our offense wasn't any more prolific than it was under McNabb, who apparently moved the ball on talent alone without any regard for the vaunted system.

    Sadly, I have a feeling that the front office agrees with you, Boone. That Grossman is secretly a franchise QB waiting to burst free from a career of mediocrity. I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong and you are right.

    my pov as well. but we may have no other option in the short run.
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    This team is going nowhere until it finds and acquires a young potential top-tier NFL quarterback. Grossman may be fine as a temporary place holder, better than McNabb in my view, but nothing more.

    With the Skins it's not the o-line, it's not the receivers, it's not the quarterback. It's all of the above. Only a quality qb can make those around him better. Without a talent under center this team can hope for no more than occasionally being a nice overachieving group that, when the stars align, can compete for the final wild card spot.
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