A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1

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    James Madison

    Default Think I'm gonna be sick (Redskins Drafting Misses)

    Imagine for a moment a Washington Redskins offense quarterbacked by Tony Romo, who hands off to LeSean McCoy and throws to Brandon Marshall and Wes Welker. The Redskins center is Dan Koppen with Michael Roos and Jermon Bushrod the bookend tackles. On defense, Trent Cole and Jared Allen zero in on the opposing quarterback from their defensive end spots with linebacker Manny Lawson coming off the edge on blitzes. Cornerback Asante Samuel and safeties Bob Sanders and Troy Polumalu patrol the secondary.

    However, instead of being able to draft these players, the Redskins have made a habit out of trading away draft picks. In fact, it’s beyond a habit, it’s an addiction.

    Each of the players above was available when a pick that the Redskins had traded away for a player came up on draft day. They were all selected either with the pick that originally belonged to Washington or with a pick later in the same round. The only exceptions are Romo and Welker, who were undrafted free agents in years that the Redskins dealt away a seventh-round pick.

    The Redskins traded away those picks, and from the players acquired in those trades, you could field a team of Mark Brunell at quarterback handing off to Trung Canidate and T. J. Duckett, and throwing to James Thrash and Brandon Lloyd. Clearing the way in the interior we have guards Brenden Stai and Pete Kendall. On defense, there is Jason Taylor enjoying a cup of coffee at defensive end, while the tackles are Lional Dalton and Martin Chase. Matt Bowen is at safety.

    http://www.csnwashington.com/12/10/1...56&feedID=6458


    Don't click the link unless you want to be sick.
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    Didn't we take Heath Shuler over Warren Sapp or Randy Moss. It was one of the two, I just don't remember which
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    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

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    This thread illustrates exactly why we need to invest on a revamped, larger scouting dept.

    Retaining our draft picks is only one piece of the puzzle - we need to have solid scouting in place otherwise having the picks would be wasted on us.
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    a/k/a - bird_1972

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Imagine for a moment a Washington Redskins offense quarterbacked by Tony Romo, who hands off to LeSean McCoy and throws to Brandon Marshall and Wes Welker. The Redskins center is Dan Koppen with Michael Roos and Jermon Bushrod the bookend tackles. On defense, Trent Cole and Jared Allen zero in on the opposing quarterback from their defensive end spots with linebacker Manny Lawson coming off the edge on blitzes. Cornerback Asante Samuel and safeties Bob Sanders and Troy Polumalu patrol the secondary.

    However, instead of being able to draft these players, the Redskins have made a habit out of trading away draft picks. In fact, it’s beyond a habit, it’s an addiction.

    Each of the players above was available when a pick that the Redskins had traded away for a player came up on draft day. They were all selected either with the pick that originally belonged to Washington or with a pick later in the same round. The only exceptions are Romo and Welker, who were undrafted free agents in years that the Redskins dealt away a seventh-round pick.

    The Redskins traded away those picks, and from the players acquired in those trades, you could field a team of Mark Brunell at quarterback handing off to Trung Canidate and T. J. Duckett, and throwing to James Thrash and Brandon Lloyd. Clearing the way in the interior we have guards Brenden Stai and Pete Kendall. On defense, there is Jason Taylor enjoying a cup of coffee at defensive end, while the tackles are Lional Dalton and Martin Chase. Matt Bowen is at safety.

    http://www.csnwashington.com/12/10/1...56&feedID=6458


    Don't click the link unless you want to be sick.

    strategy + top flight personnel/scouting dept

    look on the bright side.....perhaps the recongnition is there that this is the foundation needed for success. we'll see in the coming year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    perhaps the recognition is there that this is the foundation needed for success. we'll see in the coming year.
    This is the key to turning this around and establishing real organizational change.

    Unless this happens, anything else (coaching changes, FA signings) will all be useless.
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    a/k/a - bird_1972

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    With ya again fansince although I had to chime in with the amazing year that Brandon Lloyd is having. Wasn't he leading the league for the first half of the year or so? Makes me think of Frank Wycheck and the Music city Miracle. Not only does our scouting suck but when they do hit, it doesn't pan out until the player finds another team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CounterTrey View Post
    With ya again fansince although I had to chime in with the amazing year that Brandon Lloyd is having. Wasn't he leading the league for the first half of the year or so? Makes me think of Frank Wycheck and the Music city Miracle. Not only does our scouting suck but when they do hit, it doesn't pan out until the player finds another team.
    That might be more a function of high coaching turnover and a lack of lasting team identity/continuity than anything else.
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    a/k/a - bird_1972

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    Indeed, but whatever the reason it's a glaring and galling trend.
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    Spilled milk. While learning from the past is desired, swimming in the misery of it's pity pool is a useless waste of time and effort.

    When we pine for the good ole days, we block out some of Beathard's idiotic moves. That's what winning can do for you.

    One of my favorites was trading the next years #1, to acquire that years #2 from someone (can't remember who) and drafting Tory Friggin Nixon.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    Default

    Are we learning though? We seem hellbent on trading away draft picks every friggin year. I may just have a heart attack of shock if we ever have our full complement of draft picks one year.

    I agree that looking backwards and dwelling in the past is fruitless. My concern is that we haven't learned from our mistakes.

    Those who do not ignore the warnings of history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

    Take your pick, both apply.
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    The thing is, had we used all the picks, we may have just as easily drafted a bunch of Jamarcus Russell's.

    I agree we need to do better. But the draft is, has been, and always will be, a crap shoot.

    As much as people preach patience, we need to practice it, and give the current group a chance to their job.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    The writer made his point - Washington needs to hold onto their picks. However, when talking draft, I suppose every team can look back at many of their picks, then take a look at some of the elite players who were drafted after they picked, and imagine what could have been had they taken them when they selected. That's the beauty and chance you take when drafting. The successful teams around the league are able to hit in the draft more often than not, and the bottom-feeders like Washington either have picks that don't pan out, or they trade them away for veterans that do very little to help the team. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    One thing that did catch my eye though as I read through the article were some of the names he mentioned and where they were taken:

    Undrafted players - Willie Parker, Jason Peters, Wes Welker, Antonio Gates, Quintin Mikell.

    Six Round Picks - Cato June

    Fifth Round Picks - Trent Cole, David Diehl, Dan Koppen

    Fourth Round Picks - Asante Samuel

    Think about the teams these late round picks played for - New England, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, New York Giants, Pittsburgh, and San Diego. I don't have the numbers in front of me in terms of their winning percentages over the last 10 - 12 years or so, but I'd be willing to bet that those teams listed have a pretty good track record over that span of time. Four of them have won a Super Bowl, one made an appearance there, and the other is always a legitimate playoff contender. There is something to be said about being able to make picks outside of the first two or three rounds that amount to something. It often seems to be the difference between laying a foundation for success and spinning your tires trying to find the answer.

    It's a well-documented fact that the Redskins have been brutal with drafting late, or finding undrafted free agents that can contribute.

    Hopefully the Brandon Banks, Keiland Williams, and Anthony Armstrongs of the world are tiny steps in the right direction on this front for the Shanahan regime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    The thing is, had we used all the picks, we may have just as easily drafted a bunch of Jamarcus Russell's.

    I agree we need to do better. But the draft is, has been, and always will be, a crap shoot.

    As much as people preach patience, we need to practice it, and give the current group a chance to their job.
    Again, the reason you need a lot of draft picks is BECAUSE the draft is a crap shoot. The more picks you have, the smaller the negative impact of drafting a Russell is. Unlike Veterans, drafted players are relatively cheap and low risk. The more you have the better.

    I agree that we can't look back and automatically assume we'd have made the best pick available every time. But I do agree with the overall point. After years of watching veterans we've spent picks on crash and burn here, maybe we should actually use the picks instead of trading them. Then at least the busts won't be so colossal.
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    again this team is a contradiction, how many players from here went on to be solid somewhere else? even more strange, how many practice roster players from here are starting elsewhere? a team that has had our record should not have so many guys playing well elsewhere. it boggles my mind.
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  15. #15

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    CH, the same thing struck me. When is the last time we have had a solid contributor come from the 4th round on? Horton was dynamite for half a season or so, but flamed out since then. Kareem Moore was round 6 in '08, but I'm not convinced he will have the impact we were told he would. Golston and Montgomery were/are nice players, but certainly not stand outs. Rock in the '02 draft is a decent example, though I certainly don't think he was anywhere near the level of the players you cited from the article.

    Doing this from memory, and I can't remember anything further back than that. Point is, we get some contributors occasionally late in the draft, but that's it. It would be nice to get a big hit sometime. I always think about this when I watch the Saints with Marques Colston.

    Henry, you nailed it. The more picks you have, the better chance you have of finding someone who is productive. And the thing is, draft position really doesn't matter that much. I think we all tend to get caught up in thinking that the higher picks are better. But the Eagles and Pats have shown that the quantity matters moreso than the quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Again, the reason you need a lot of draft picks is BECAUSE the draft is a crap shoot. The more picks you have, the smaller the negative impact of drafting a Russell is. Unlike Veterans, drafted players are relatively cheap and low risk. The more you have the better.

    I agree that we can't look back and automatically assume we'd have made the best pick available every time. But I do agree with the overall point. After years of watching veterans we've spent picks on crash and burn here, maybe we should actually use the picks instead of trading them. Then at least the busts won't be so colossal.
    Oh, I agree. I think we all do. The thought just looses a little luster when we hear it 24/7 - 365. And double time after a loss.
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    While I agree, and often get upset when I think about Taylor Jacobs over Anquan Boldin (maybe the most egregious drafting-error of the past 10 years), to say we could have had that team is highly unrealistic. Any team could have hit on all of those guys, but none did.
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  18. #18
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    For drafted players, the team they are drafted to, plays just as much a part of a player's success as their physical abilities does.

    If Tom Brady was a Redskin, I would guess he would be a loser. There has not been any coaching consistency to help lead this team. So what makes you think any of these players could have been good?

    Whether or not we 'hit' on every prospect out there, without consistency at the top of the organisation, we are nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Omniscient View Post
    For drafted players, the team they are drafted to, plays just as much a part of a player's success as their physical abilities does.

    If Tom Brady was a Redskin, I would guess he would be a loser. There has not been any coaching consistency to help lead this team. So what makes you think any of these players could have been good?

    Whether or not we 'hit' on every prospect out there, without consistency at the top of the organisation, we are nothing.

    good points. though the fundamental cause has been a flawed personnel strategy - and that traces back to you know who (hint: the lone constant in all of this)
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    I would argue that it started prior to the 'lone constant.' However, he has not helped in the past decade.
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