SkinsLife
The UDFA
I highly doubt Kingsbury stays as an OC here next year. He should have a few HC options and i am sure he will take one of them. he cant afford another terrible year like this one.. as it will tank his value.
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2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Offense
- Thread starter Chris
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I don’t think so either truthfully, it really just depends how money hungry he is after all the HC money he’s been paid to mostly be an OC the last few years. Seems like he should be richer than anyone needs to be, but if he’s a greedy dude none of us would know lol. I agree with you that he’s probably happy where he’s at, but this wasn’t a fun year (unlike last year) so if there’s any part of him that’s susceptible to being tempted away by money/new challenge, this seems like an offseason ripe for it. We’ll know pretty quickly this winter at least
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Just curious- when is the last time a coordinator of a 3-4-5 win team had any, much less multiple, HC offers?
You think an NFL team will want to hire him as a HC? Why?
SkinsLife
The UDFA
well... hot OCs are all the rage in the NFL as HC options
1. he has proven that he works well with Rookie QBs and can build an O for them for them to succeede
2. He has HC experience
I hope he does.. i am ready for a change in O
I’m with you, I hope someone hires him away for a few reasons although I don’t hate the guy.
I just don’t think he’s a very appealing HC candidate in the NFL, but you’re right that teams are usually thirsty for offensive minds. He failed pretty thoroughly with one 1st overall QB as a HC before though and didn’t really do anything impressive this year, and it’s a very “what have you done for me lately” league
SkinsLife
The UDFA
I am in the same boat, while i wouldn't hate it if he stayed.. i am ready for something different with more emphasis on getting the run game going. sure.. he failed with Murray.. but so did everyone else and its obvious the Murray is not a starting level QB. He was the only one that got one year of high level play from hiim.
Faithful Fan
The Starter
Yeah fans give him a hard time because he is clearly slowing down, but Wagner is still a tackling machine. I will add he was the key player in both successful goal line stands against Miami.
SkinsLife
The UDFA
lots of a tackles is a terrible way to value linebacker play. all that means is that the rest of the D is so bad that he has to make all the tackles. Wagner is still smart and experienced.. he has that going for him. But.. he has zero lateral speed left. cant cover. He only gets tackles when a RB run right at him. Definitely a solid tackler... but we need so much more. You can do worse at MLB.. but you could also do a lot better. On this D, where they have a hard time getting much pressure on opposing QB... coverage LB is much more valuable.
Faithful Fan
The Starter
I don’t know, I still think football is about blocking and tackling, and here’s a list of the career tackling leaders:
NFL Tackles Career Leaders (since 1994) | Pro-Football-Reference.com
1. Ray Lewis (1,568), 2. London Fletcher (1,384), 3. Derrick Brooks (1,300), 4. Lavonte David (1,172), 5. Bobby Wagner (1,150),
www.pro-football-reference.com
There are a lot of Hall of Fame players on there (and at least one who should be in London Fletcher and one who will be in Bobby Wagner).
I do agree Wagner is in the twilight of his career, and it shows in both his smart play and poor speed. He did have a good game against Miami though.
Anyway sorry to derail the all things offense thread, but I always liked guys like Fletcher and Wagner.
So if KK leaves? Who do you want to replace him? Mike McDaniel (who will be available and has a Quinn connection), or other? Who would be best for a modern NFL offense and be able to leverage JD's skillset?
Speak up yee football maestros!
Speak up yee football maestros!
Where is Lavar and Chase? 🤣🤣🤣I don’t know, I still think football is about blocking and tackling, and here’s a list of the career tackling leaders:
NFL Tackles Career Leaders (since 1994) | Pro-Football-Reference.com
1. Ray Lewis (1,568), 2. London Fletcher (1,384), 3. Derrick Brooks (1,300), 4. Lavonte David (1,172), 5. Bobby Wagner (1,150),
There are a lot of Hall of Fame players on there (and at least one who should be in London Fletcher and one who will be in Bobby Wagner).
I do agree Wagner is in the twilight of his career, and it shows in both his smart play and poor speed. He did have a good game against Miami though.
Anyway sorry to derail the all things offense thread, but I always liked guys like Fletcher and Wagner.
SkinsNumberOne
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This is a great question. Like in any market, timing matters.
The draft -- sometimes pick #15 is amazing! Sometimes it is so disappointing, because all of the great guys are gone by 13, and now you are squarely in tier-2.
Ditto for your question; who will be available? The Patriots dropped everything (especially Mayo) when Vrabel became available. He is a proven winner with a philosophy they liked. It is a philosophy that works, and unfortunately it is working well in NEP. There's no magic, no big secret, to the biggest changes made there.
So, as for KK, I think many like the Shanahan tree and guys who may be offshoots of that. That tree has done pretty well offensively around the league. You could do worse, and I think there are some guys around who have experience due to all of the branching off and pilfering that has occurred. I'm not up on who may be available next year, but I imagine you could go for someone with that kind of pedigree and do OK - and who knows? Maybe Kyle gives you a pretty good assistant because he likes DQ and AP? I don't know who that could be, or how likely that is, but there are some connections there.
leonard_washington
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If Wagner gets his arms on a ball carrier, they aren't going anywhere.
method man
The Starter
I hope McDaniel is safe for one more year and we can then bring him into replace KK in 2027 after KK’a O leads a bounceback season and he gets a HC joB
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Vrabel was available last year and if we were going with a defensive HC is the one we should have hired. That isn't recency bias either. I live in Tennessee and saw what he did with a bad roster and a bottom 10 QB. And many many others said the same thing so it's not just us here locally.
Mc Daniel is going to be available as an OC more than likely and I'd drop Kingsberry in a second for him and probably somebody under McVay or Shanahan.
Why? Because in the NFL Kingsberry is pretty much a 1 of 1. His tree is a single chopstick.
SkinsNumberOne
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I had forgotten Vrabel was available, wow. (for anyone else who forgot, https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...aps-up-reasons-why-he-mightve-missed-the-cut/)
I do like Vrabel. He just had the pedigree to take a team from the cellar, and the way he did it - I respected it too. 2024 was a great season, but I still think people undersell how much of that was driven by having an amazing rookie QB take the league by storm. Heck it happened pretty recently to the Texans as well with Stroud, one year later Slowik is out as OC (of course this is from my memory which had Vrabel wrong, so who knows!)
The way Vrabel is doing it in NE this year, unfortunately it doesn't have a flash in the pan feeling to it. Maye isn't solo out there. There is a strong running game and emphasis backing him up, under no circumstances is he anywhere close to carrying that team the way JD had to last year. That doesn't even include the difference in defense.
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I think McDaniel is gone at the end of the season. That is the vibe that I'm getting down here in Miami. IDK
The question is do we want him and can he help make this a prolific offense? Again, IDK
Who else do you think we'll be available? Somebody that would be successful here?
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SkinsNumberOne
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To be clear, McDaniel is considered a Shanahan tree person. I don't know either. I have some misgivings there, but I think as an OC it is definitely intriguing. I am just not always clear on his play design. It would never in a million years happen, but McDaniel as OC/playcaller with KK as the passing game coordinator (designing passing plays in particular), that would be interesting to me. Scott Turner, Kliff - they were both former QBs. That is a big reason their offenses feature the QB so much, and the QBs actually loved both systems (Alex Smith gushed over Turner's offense).
So, I like McDaniel's philosophy but I suspect to get the best out of an offense with him, you'd like to see him have some support in play design. That would be my guess from where I am sitting.
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