Commanders @ Dallas - Next Day Thread

[skinsinparadise]

I went in depth about AP in another thread.

But the cliff notes for me is the early returns on this draft is good. The trades - good. FA signings -- good.

So at a minimum he's on a roll in 2025. Sounds odd in a season off the rails but I put that more on coaching, injuries and it takes time to build a team.

As for 2024, where the criticism is more intense. Jayden is a homerun pick IMO. Franchise changer. He thought he was even better than Caleb. On that alone, he killed it. The rest of the draft I think is OK with plenty TBD. I disagree with the point made here that you know in season 1. you often don't. And that cuts both ways. Some thought for example Rivera killed it when he traded down that year, and ditto in 2011 when Shanny traded down. Early read was promising. Now both drafts look terrible. O lineman and TEs and CBs in partcular can take time to develop. His FA in 2024 was very good. Lattimore trade made sense at the time but clearly was a bad one.

He's loaded the FO with big name guys for a change. Sosna is often mentioned as the next GM somewhere. Landmark, too. Blackburn was a biggish name in the personnel world.

I heard Bram once say, Peters is the most competitive person he's ever been around. He's a 5 am go to work kind of guy. If this season goes south, one thing I can guarantee based on Peter's reputation, he's not going to rest on his laurels in the off season, he will obsess with getting it right.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d just like to add that when I say the FO/coaching is more of a concern to me than Jayden. I mean just that, not that AP or Quinn are failures.

Jayden to me is a safe bet that he will play much better when the stars align.

AP - I have to believe some of this is a learning curve of being the head guy in charge for the first time. But I don’t think you receive the universal praise that he did prior to coming here simply off being a good looking nice guy. He has the tools and should like Jayden, get better with age.

Quinn though, still feels to me like the coach before the coach that gets the team where it wants to go. No doubt guys play for him. But being a defensive head coach and fielding a god awful defense two seasons in a row is a major red flag. Add to the mix his handpicked guy in Joe Whitt seemingly having no answers week after week. I am skeptical that we haven’t already seen Dan’s ceiling.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Though I do think Quinn sort of sleepwalked his way into the season -- hyperbole on my end to make a point -- everything I've read about him makes me believe he wants it bad and has the drive to win it all. Sounds simple, but I think a lot of our coaches over the years did not have that level of drive or thought it's the end of the world if they don't win.

I think drive is a big part of success and Quinn supposedly has it. Peters supposedly has it on stereoids. As does Jayden.

I went back and forth with Voice_of_Reason about this feeling like this is a trilogy with this one being the setback, Empire Strikes Back season. But lol, I like the concept of how Jayden, Peters, Quinn respond to a setback season. Jayden said he couldn't get past the Eagles loss at the end of the season -- i can't imagine him stewing on them missing the playoffs and some Commanders fans thinking he's now overhyped, etc. From what I've heard about Peters, it would drive him insane to have a setback season.

Quinn is the biggest wildcard to me. I know he works his ass off from what I've heard. But I do wonder if its too loyal to his pals on the coaching staff.

At a minimum, if this season goes south, I think there is zero chance this regime will Rivera it and let this ride -- it will be all hands on deck, code red off season.

 

[Chris_Hanbuger_the Hangman]

Dan banked on Lattimore being a shut down corner NOT a liability. The whole D scheme they practiced off season is out the window because Lattimore isn't doing his job. They are reluctant to bench him (for some reason) and try a different mix back there because they haven't practiced it. They are HOPING Lattimore returns close to form over time....
I think the zone they are playing is too soft and dependent on reflexes that aren't there. I would suggest they go to man and blitz like hell...just like Dalllas did to us. Don't let the QB throw to open zone spots. Time to unleash the beasts up front and blitz LB's frequently. THAT at least would be worth watching...not the crap they put on the field now

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Nobody sees more Lattimore than DQ and the gang. I have to wonder what they are seeing in practice that leads them to believe he will ever return to form. It’s apparent every gameday that he’s washed. I see no glimpses that better is coming.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Nobody sees more Lattimore than DQ and the gang. I have to wonder what they are seeing in practice that leads them to believe he will ever return to form. It’s apparent every gameday that he’s washed. I see no glimpses that better is coming.

When the team struggles (as it has far too often in the past 20+ years), I always think in practice we don’t have “iron sharpening iron” as much as “rubber softening rubber.” Maybe our O doesn’t execute amazingly well against our D in practice?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Nobody sees more Lattimore than DQ and the gang. I have to wonder what they are seeing in practice that leads them to believe he will ever return to form. It’s apparent every gameday that he’s washed. I see no glimpses that better is coming.

Well, in practice he is covering Chris Moore and Robby Chosen, so he may look really good. I think the issue around Lattimore is he is not a shutdown corner like he used to be. He’s now a piece of a defense. That may be hard for him to accept his role and it may be hard for the coaches to accept that as well. I’ve seen them adjust in games to take him away from situations where he is getting burned. But teams are finding him and exposing his weaknesses. I do think it’s more pronounced with him when he is getting beat because he was a shutdown guy previously. Announcers are expecting to see the guy they saw before. But the results speak for themselves and he is out there getting cooked.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Nobody sees more Lattimore than DQ and the gang. I have to wonder what they are seeing in practice that leads them to believe he will ever return to form. It’s apparent every gameday that he’s washed. I see no glimpses that better is coming.

He's had some good games this year against lesser CBs. But as Keim likes to say he's was brought here to stop top WRs -- top WRs eat him up.

Feels like the problem with the defense:

A. Whitt and among other things running a predictable scheme

B. They trust Lattmore to shut down their opponent's top corner and he sucks at it.

C. Sainristil struggiling playing slot

D. Wagner has gone from bad against the pass to atrocious

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Well, in practice he is covering Chris Moore and Robby Chosen, so he may look really good. I think the issue around Lattimore is he is not a shutdown corner like he used to be. He’s now a piece of a defense. That may be hard for him to accept his role and it may be hard for the coaches to accept that as well. I’ve seen them adjust in games to take him away from situations where he is getting burned. But teams are finding him and exposing his weaknesses. I do think it’s more pronounced with him when he is getting beat because he was a shutdown guy previously. Announcers are expecting to see the guy they saw before. But the results speak for themselves and he is out there getting cooked.

He’s largely been awful by all measures since joining Washington. Advanced metrics aren’t kind to him. The eye test even worse. If not giving up a completion, he’s behind in pursuit and can’t get his head around, resulting in back breaking penalties. At this point, I’m convinced the only way to hide his weaknesses is to make him inactive.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Watched this its painful. I've watched my share of these and the Cowboys are one of the most upbeat self congratulatory team I've ever seen in one of these segments. You'd think they won the SB.

Watching Pickens egg on Lattimore and tell him too his face he can't stop him, was painful. And Lamb talks to Pickens about how Washington's corners try to press man against them and it won't work against two dogs like them.

Even Shotttenheimer seemed over the top. Makes me think they will crash in the near future. They seem too full of themselves. I guess will see.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

It’s the cowboys. They are all hype. So when they win, this is what they do. It feeds into the fans being delusional. I bet they made more money this week than after any other game this year. As far as Pickens, I think he is a time bomb waiting to explode. A few rough games of him not getting the ball and he will be just like he was in Pittsburgh. I hope Quinn uses this to motivate the players. They should be motivated already, but this should be some extra motivation.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

Watched this its painful. I've watched my share of these and the Cowboys are one of the most upbeat self congratulatory team I've ever seen in one of these segments. You'd think they won the SB.

Watching Pickens egg on Lattimore and tell him too his face he can't stop him, was painful. And Lamb talks to Pickens about how Washington's corners try to press man against them and it won't work against two dogs like them.

Even Shotttenheimer seemed over the top. Makes me think they will crash in the near future. They seem too full of themselves. I guess will see.

We are the hunted, no longer the hunters….and it shows. I don’t know how you muster the identity of last years team with the key injuries we’ve had.

That video is absolutely brutal. Clowney talking about how Connerly sucks, also has to hurt. It wasn’t like he was mad, just blunt. Oof.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

He’s largely been awful by all measures since joining Washington. Advanced metrics aren’t kind to him. The eye test even worse. If not giving up a completion, he’s behind in pursuit and can’t get his head around, resulting in back breaking penalties. At this point, I’m convinced the only way to hide his weaknesses is to make him inactive.

Sadly, you are correct. Someone posted before the game that he should get into a fight with Pickens to get them both tossed out. I don’t know if it changes the outcome of the game, but that would have been a better move for both Lattimore and the team had it happened. It never would, but it’s fun to talk about.

 

[skinsmarydu]

Considering we could've had Clowney, that really hurts.
I'm down here in SEC country, I saw his entire college career at USC, albeit under Spurrier. I've wanted him on our team since way back then.

 

[DWinzit]

Considering we could've had Clowney, that really hurts.
I'm down here in SEC country, I saw his entire college career at USC, albeit under Spurrier. I've wanted him on our team since way back then.

Agreed, there were a number of us that wanted Washington to sign Clowney months ago. He would have been a great addition to help against the run and creating pressure

The comments about Conerly are concerning, I hope they don't get in his head and he continues to grow his game and confidence.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Sadly, you are correct. Someone posted before the game that he should get into a fight with Pickens to get them both tossed out. I don’t know if it changes the outcome of the game, but that would have been a better move for both Lattimore and the team had it happened. It never would, but it’s fun to talk about.

Something akin to this floated through my head during the game too. It was like, battle of the headcases, part deux (part one was brown nfccg, won by brown but In Lattimore’s defense with random unfair help from refs, he did get brown to do nonsense actually).

Part deux never materialized but they were jawing; my problem is this is my only hope most of the time since these other headcases have his number on the field. It reminds me of watching Norman talk smack and get burned, week after week after week. Actually Lattimore seems better than Norman to me.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

It’s the cowboys. They are all hype. So when they win, this is what they do. It feeds into the fans being delusional. I bet they made more money this week than after any other game this year. As far as Pickens, I think he is a time bomb waiting to explode. A few rough games of him not getting the ball and he will be just like he was in Pittsburgh. I hope Quinn uses this to motivate the players. They should be motivated already, but this should be some extra motivation.

Hm this seems relevant to your conversation (posted today):

 

[SkinsLife]

I dont know.. i am probably a bit more pessimistic than most, but being a Skins fan the last 30y and with it mostly being a disappointing experience.... you tend to learn to read through the BS reasonably quickly and dont need 5y of failures to understand when this team is on the wrong track.
There are issues all over.. from Peters on down.. poor trades and sub par drafts.
I've heard this whole Quinn is respected all around the NFL type bs before as well .. not long back we had the same conversation about Rivera, what a a joke that turned out to be. Quinn brought Whitt here and with his record of poor Ds as a HC.. he should be liable for his mistakes.

While i still believe JD is stud, Maye isnt looking any less...and a few years from now, well, Maye might have something to say for the best QB in this draft. So Peter could have drafted Maye or JD... and either would have been great.
The original fear about JD is absolutely real... the guy plays recklessly and cant stay on the field... he doesn't have the body to keep that up.

and again.. i m not talking out my ass, Macdonald.. who i wanted as a HC over Quinn 10/10 times.. turned Seattle around in one season QB, Offense, Defense from bottom 3rd to top 5 ... and while on the field JD makes the O better... without him its nothing special and D is actually getting worse 2nd year in this system.. which speaks to the level of coaching and talent on this team. Last year is looking like an anomaly stemming from an easy schedule, weak QB opponents and relevant health. Good teams that have rough patches due to injuries still find ways to win (Tampa, SF) .. bad teams like this one.. fold.

 

[skinsinparadise]

We are the hunted, no longer the hunters….and it shows. I don’t know how you muster the identity of last years team with the key injuries we’ve had.

That video is absolutely brutal. Clowney talking about how Connerly sucks, also has to hurt. It wasn’t like he was mad, just blunt. Oof.

Yeah as far as the hunted go, I mentioned this point before that game.

I figured the motivation edge would go to Dallas. Dallas at least during the Prescot seasons when he's not hurt is always a contender, yet they were written off this season as stepchilds to Washington. Jayden >> Prescott, etc.

I can see them saying who the hell is this upstart Washington team and why have they leapfrogged us? They almost swept Washington last year with backup QBS, so what gives, etc?

 

[skinsinparadise]

I dont know.. i am probably a bit more pessimistic than most, but being a Skins fan the last 30y and with it mostly being a disappointing experience.... you tend to learn to read through the BS reasonably quickly and dont need 5y of failures to understand when this team is on the wrong track.
There are issues all over.. from Peters on down.. poor trades and sub par drafts.
I've heard this whole Quinn is respected all around the NFL type bs before as well .. not long back we had the same conversation about Rivera, what a a joke that turned out to be. Quinn brought Whitt here and with his record of poor Ds as a HC.. he should be liable for his mistakes.

While i still believe JD is stud, Maye isnt looking any less...and a few years from now, well, Maye might have something to say for the best QB in this draft. So Peter could have drafted Maye or JD... and either would have been great.
The original fear about JD is absolutely real... the guy plays recklessly and cant stay on the field... he doesn't have the body to keep that up.

and again.. i m not talking out my ass, Macdonald.. who i wanted as a HC over Quinn 10/10 times.. turned Seattle around in one season QB, Offense, Defense from bottom 3rd to top 5 ... and while on the field JD makes the O better... without him its nothing special and D is actually getting worse 2nd year in this system.. which speaks to the level of coaching and talent on this team. Last year is looking like an anomaly stemming from an easy schedule, weak QB opponents and relevant health. Good teams that have rough patches due to injuries still find ways to win (Tampa, SF) .. bad teams like this one.. fold.

I saw somewhere that the Patriots have had the easiest schedule in the NFL this year and by far. And one of the easiest schedules in NFL history. Sheehan talked about it on his show yesterday.

For as bad as this season has gone, if they were playing a light schedule like that, we'd be singing a different tune, I got no doubt about that.

I loved both Maye and JD in the draft. But I'll be a JD over Maye guy until I see Maye beat a good team with much on the line like Jayden did last year.