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Official Game Thread - Week 2 - Commanders @ Packers - TNF
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tomwvr
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Whitt is a sub par DC. He can do well against bad teams. But anytime there is good offensive coaching he gets destroyed.
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bh32 said:
He's in his SECOND SEASON as a Defensive Coordinator. He may not prove to be a great DC or even a good one. But I think it's reasonable to cut him a little bit of a break and recognize he has never been entirely responsible for a defense at the coordinator level before he came to Washington.
Sometimes, it takes a little time.
method man
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We’re in an ideal window. If he doesn’t get it done this year, we should move on from him and bring in a veteran high end DC.
He may figure it out eventually. McDermott got fired in Philly and then had to go become DC under Ron for a few years before he got his HC opportunity
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That's a different argument - and that will be for Dan Quinn to decide.
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And btw… we are a week removed from one of the best defensive performances we’ve seen in quite a while. Of course it was vs the Giants - the team everyone was afraid of until we actually played them, at which point how bad they are became the reason we won.
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We knew last year Allegretti was not great. Wondering if Wylie at RG instead of RT might assist Conerly? And is it safe to say if Conerly were next to a healthy Cosmi that he looks much better as he learns his new position?
While talking protection, could you remind me if it's CRod or McNichols that's better at pass pro? Thanks!
McNichols is the bettter pass protect guy. Considering GB was getting home on the blitzes I get it in retrospect why they played Ekeler more than Croskey-Merritt. Younger RBs with some exceptions aren't typically hot at pass pro.
As for the O line, if Allegretti and Conerly play that bad they can lose to any team if the opponent's O line conversely does a nice job in protection. I would defintely start Wylie in this coming game. I shudder at thinking about Conerly against Crosby. Allegretti was just as bad as Conerly but he's normally not that level bad so I'd trust he can bounce back.
But Conerly to my eyes had beyond a bad day, he looked like a dude who might struggle in the Arena League let alone the NFL. Now, I don't mean that in a macro way that Conerly won't be a good player someday or even this season. But for now, its beyond growing pains from what I saw, he was absolutely dominated and not just by Parsons. Not just bad moments but dominated. And I've seen Crosby live. He's relentless and can get under the pads of an O lineman and drive them. That type of style IMO is a nightmare for Conerly.
Just like how some can wonder why the Giants are that bad considering they got some talent. I have fallen for it, too. Look at their roster, I think its better than ours. Some national film geek guy said something similar. They got a monster D line. they got LBs. Decent safeites. Arguably better Rbs than we got. Nabers is a star. They don't have a legit #2 WR. But have good depth at WR. I can see an 8-9 type team at least -- not a 4 win team.
But, their O line is so bad that it crashes the whole team because of the ripple effect. It's why I switched from predicting a Giants win to a Washington win once I heard that Thomas is out. People are saying maybe Wilson is shot. It might be so. But its hard to play QB when your O line falls apart.
As for Jayden. I noticed the talk shows now talking about a sophomore slump for Jayden. Personally, I don't think so. I predicted in the first two games he'd not look like himself. Not because i am a savant. Far from it. I am simply repeating what some elite QBs have said on the topic. Brady thought it was essential getting preseason reps. Mahomes the same. Burrow wanted them and said not having Chase in camp hurt his start last year.
I know some think that's nonsense or hyberbole, etc. That's fine. I am not saying they are wrong. I don't know. But I do know there are players-coaches on both sides of this debate. And as for Jayden even if we ran purely on the idea that preseaon reps means zip -- few would argue that camp also doesn't matter a whit as to building chemistry. And for me personally its the combination. Not just one of these issues.
Jayden had both issues. No preseason throws and no camp throws to his outside Wrs. I don't think you got to be Nostradamus or some football savant to predict he won't be himself early on. But I believe in Jayden. Last season it clicked for him in game 3, hopefully it does again. But they also need to clean up the O line.
the O line right now is a problem. I didn't rewatch the Giants game. But Jay Gruden did and he thought they played poorly but got away with one because Jayden offset it. PFF seemed to echo that as to their grades. But clearly it wasn't anything nearly as bad as Thursday Night.
I know some think that's nonsense or hyberbole, etc. That's fine. I am not saying they are wrong. I don't know. But I do know there are players-coaches on both sides of this debate. And as for Jayden even if we ran purely on the idea that preseaon reps means zip -- few would argue that camp also doesn't matter a whit as to building chemistry. And for me personally its the combination. Not just one of these issues.
Jayden had both issues. No preseason throws and no camp throws to his outside Wrs. I don't think you got to be Nostradamus or some football savant to predict he won't be himself early on. But I believe in Jayden. Last season it clicked for him in game 3, hopefully it does again. But they also need to clean up the O line.
the O line right now is a problem. I didn't rewatch the Giants game. But Jay Gruden did and he thought they played poorly but got away with one because Jayden offset it. PFF seemed to echo that as to their grades. But clearly it wasn't anything nearly as bad as Thursday Night.
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I thought McNichols was the better pass pro guy, thank you for confirming that. Also yes pass pro has got to be the reason Ekeler was in so much even though it was evident Bill or perhaps CRod would have been the more effective RB versus GB. We will see a combo of the three of them this week in Ekelers absence.
It is crazy that we are talking about our OL being such a weakness right now. It was expected to be one of the top strengths. I was not that happy with Allegretti last year so not shocked the right side with a combo of he and a rookie playing a new tackle position. I am just absolutely not understanding that Conerly can be as horrible as being made out. Also not loving the idea of putting Wylie back on the outside. They need to find some sort of a gel with the right side, Wylie at RG?
And I am not on a Daniels is in a second year slum either. I have faith in him
When you watch the All 22, sometimes you see things that you can't see watching the game in real time.
And my takewaway watching the All 22, was actually positive. It didn't look like a team that was flat, as some fans accuse them of. It didn't like a full scale meltdown across the board. I am listening to talk radio right now, and fans are melting down and saying it was a complete team failure and they had no energy and were flat. lol, I am listening to Adam Epstein on 980 (who is entertaining so no offense at him) saying how Tunsil was disappointing. Tunsil to me looked fine. This wasn't IMO a complete team meltdown.
to me it was a clinic for why the Giants have sucked for years in spite of building up other parts of their roster. When you can't protect in a big way, you can't win. And the ripple effect of it, effects everything. Your QB is ruffled. It effects both your passing and running game. It effects the defense because its always on the field.
To me rewatching it. I do think this coaching staff did a piss poor job preparing them. I guess Thursday-short weeks don't work well for this coaching staff -- considering they looked piss poor against the Eagles last year also on Thursday night where the Eagles had an answer to everything. Both GB and the Eagles are also great teams. So the combination of bad preparation and facing a great team makes it feel ugly.
But if I am looking purely at players. And granted I've not looked closely at everyone. On offense, it was clear as heck Conerly and Allegretti were beyond bad. They were train wreck level atrocious. Coleman was bad but not atrocious. Noah Brown was bad. Jayden was off his game but it was understandable.
On defense the D line looked OK. Don't get me wrong. Not great. But not awful. C level performance. Armstrong in particular looked good. Wagner looked good. Luvu was a ball of energy but seemed to accomplish almost nothing. The secondary looked confused by GB's game plan and were picked apart.
If I had to summarize it.
A. They had an answer to Kliff's response to pass pressure. They clearly prepared for if we pressure them, this is what they will do. And were more then ready for it. And there was no adjustment back from Kliff.
B. They picked apart this team coverages and tendendies. And Whitt didn't adjust back
C. Their pressure clearly worked. 4 men. Blitzes. All of it. And they blew apart Conerly and Allegretti like they were two dudes who didn't even remotely belong in the NFL let alone start.
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way too much of this where Jayden just couldn't settle in and find a rythmn. On the play right after that Parsons basically beat a combo block from Allegretti and Conerly albiet he didn't get to Jayden. But it was constant pressure.
Clearly this staff is going to need to take full advantage of the extra prep time they have for week 3. they are going to need to dig deep to resolve issues seen on both sides of the ball Thursday. GB exposed so many weaknesses to the other teams. RIght now I don't full faith they will be able to turn this around easily versus the Raiders but they damn well better get some of it in place and have counter actions in place if needed. The team did not make sufficient adjustments when they needed o
You give Jayden a second to settle in to throw and for the WRs to break open. And you are OK. This was the TD. Ertz gets open for the TD. Lane was open on the other side.
There were other plays where the WRs were open. Jayden wasn't at his best. But as I've mentioned him starting off slowish I think was expected. But still. He doesn't need a ton of time. Just give him a half a second more. He can't be under duress that much and be successful. He doesn't need great protection but heck i think he's fine even with below average protection - it just can't be insanely bad.
There were other plays where the WRs were open. Jayden wasn't at his best. But as I've mentioned him starting off slowish I think was expected. But still. He doesn't need a ton of time. Just give him a half a second more. He can't be under duress that much and be successful. He doesn't need great protection but heck i think he's fine even with below average protection - it just can't be insanely bad.
^^^ Yeah if the OL can find themselves he Offense can right their ship. It is the key to being able to beat the Raiders and move on in the season
Yeah. I also suspect but don't know GB was better prepared for this game. Because it looked that way.
When you have a light camp and light preseason, I suspect heavy preparation. for the GB game wasn't what happened. I saw it was mentioned that in the 2 weeks leading up to first game, they incorproated some GB prep.
And am gathering GB didn't have to prepare hard considering Lafleur seems to have a beat on Quinn. I forgot where I saw it because I recall seeing on one play GB knew the coverage Washington would have on a third and short because they always run the same coverage, if I recall it was some sort of man coverage. Reading that reminded of Jim Haslett. When Jay coodinated Cincy and said that he expected a certain coverage on a play and indeed it happened and they exploited it for a TD.
Matt LaFleur owns Dan Quinn
Earlier this week, Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur praised Washington Commanders head coach Dan Quinn. LaFleur, in his seventh season as Green Bay's highly successful head coach, said he likely wouldn't be in his current position if he hadn't spent two years on Quinn's coaching staff in 2015 and 2016.
On Thursday, LaFleur's Packers dominated Quinn's Commanders 27-18. The score didn't tell the entire story. Green Bay owned Washington on both sides of the ball. Specifically, LaFleur's offense appeared to be playing chess with Quinn's defense. The Commanders had no answers. They made Jordan Love look like Patrick Mahomes.
So, when LaFleur praises Quinn, maybe it's just because he's happy to see him on the schedule.
In all seriousness, LaFleur does like and respect Quinn. So does Kyle Shanahan, too, who was also on Quinn's staff during the same period. Shanahan has made no secret of how much he likes and respects Quinn. But, you guessed it, Shanahan's offenses often get the best out of Quinn's defensive units. The Green Bay and San Francisco offenses come from the same coaching tree, and it's one that Quinn can't seem to crack.
A unit coached by Quinn, whether as Dallas' defensive coordinator or Washington's head coach, has yet to beat LaFleur's Packers. Every Cowboys fan remembers the January 2024 blowout loss in the NFC playoffs at home to the Packers. It was Quinn's last game in Dallas as defensive coordinator. Fans blamed him more than anyone else.
After Green Bay defeated Washington on Thursday, LaFleur improved to 4-0 against Quinn. Some of the wins haven't been competitive either. Quinn's coverage concepts are often relatively simple, and LaFleur knows how to exploit them at every turn. It's almost unfair.
So, this begs the question: Why doesn't Quinn adjust what he's doing?
The Packers had injuries at receiver on Thursday and had wide-open wideouts all night. Quinn had no response to tight end Tucker Kraft.
This is an issue for the Commanders. Let's say Washington and Green Bay meet again in the playoffs. Who would have any confidence picking Quinn against LaFleur? The Packers have looked like world beaters through two weeks. They're going to make noise in January. If Washington wants to make noise in the playoffs, it will need to overcome Green Bay. Until he proves otherwise, it's a major flaw for Quinn as head coach.
SkinsNumberOne
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If this game is a launching pad for Luke, it can be way more meaningful.
I don’t dislike our WRs. I think our coaching positionally and OC has some question marks. A lot of times you have to judge your coaches on how they develop young dudes. Sainristil is a success so far. Elsewhere? Hm. Connerly. Coleman. They both showed basic issues to me. Technique issues. Prep issues.
Sinnott.
Lane. Mccaffrey.
Lane on PR looks great.
So I am not too high on positional coaching even going back to last year. When you get a lot of older vets it can hide issues in positional coaching. Ertz and Wags don’t need coaching. Luvu had a pretty bad game.
For me, the jury is still out on our OL coach. That was a great D line with great pressure but I want to see good technique and prep for our young guys. That would really sell me on our OL coach. I haven’t seen it but it’s hard to evaluate without more film and time. I remember last year, feeling Coleman late in the year had some serious technique issues which was disappointing.
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