The 2025 Draft Thread

What I liked about the Newton pick was that it was farsighted. At the time, we had Payne and Allen and a DT could have been viewed as a luxury pick. Using a high second on a backup or rotational guy on such a talent poor team is a little rough, but it became the right move sooner than expected.
 
It is just too early to assign a solid grade to the 2024 or 2025 draft class. After this season we will get a better handle on the 2024 class.

The same can be said for judging/comparing Maye, Caleb and JD.
 
It is just too early to assign a solid grade to the 2024 or 2025 draft class. After this season we will get a better handle on the 2024 class.

The same can be said for judging/comparing Maye, Caleb and JD.
Heck, it's too early to assign a grade to anything.

The coaches
The gm
The draft

Thankfully, it's not too early to feel good about what all of the above have done.
 
For the most part I agree it’s too early to judge these things, but every once in a while you just know you nailed it right away. And I would put the Jayden pick in that category!
 
For the most part I agree it’s too early to judge these things, but every once in a while you just know you nailed it right away. And I would put the Jayden pick in that category!

Yeah barring injury Jayden looked too good -- and more on point his intangibles are so exceptional -- that I don't have any TBD vibe about him. Heck even some of the more cynical national observors already have him somewhere around as the 5th best Qb in the league.

I agree with those who think its TBD with Caleb.

As for Peters, there is some TBD but already in one year he's accomplished more than any GM here since Beathard. but for me, he's already accomplished three things that I'd wonder if I'd ever see again.

A. Franchise QB -- elite leve
B. 12 wins. NFC Championship.
C. Legit SB threat
 
just listened to Joe Whitt's press conference. Likeable dude and does good press conferences. I wonder if he is a good defensive coordinator but I'll give him another season before landing on a hard take.

I did like that he recognizes the problems including mentioning one thing that I've talked about, that I don't see too many others mention.

A. Stopping the run
B. Turnovers
C. Closing games better.

Item C is what bugged me the most. That unit was at its worst in big moments in big games especially in the 4th quarter. But I am glad to see its a point of emphasis from him.

What I liked the most as to what he said in response to ironically from Ben Standig (same dude who keeps saying that they should convince Payne that this is a akin to a contract year because that was his big motivator for his career season) when asked about what player looks different-renewed focus, etc. He said Daron Payne. Later on he also mentioned Quan Martin.

I recall during the Payne contract year the last time, Logan Paulsen among others were saying they've seen Payne in camp after camp, but that camp he seems big time locked in, he came off as a different dude. If you recall that was the year Payne was doing money signs every time he had a sack and wasn't shy about saying he wants his money. A previous coach (trying to remember, it might have been Jay) said in an interview that Payne is a good dude but not the most self-motivating guy.

So good news if Payne feels this way again this season that money is on the line where they can cut him next off season because the lack of guaranteed money going foward -- we might see his best. If Payne has his typical of late pedestrian season, he's getting like 6-7 million a year probably versus the 23 or so he would get otherwise.


 
SIP, I am glad that you continue question Whitt, I see your questions as valid. He still has proving to do for me but I like him as a guy (but trying not to sound too Rivera-esue)
 
SIP, I am glad that you continue question Whitt, I see your questions as valid. He still has proving to do for me but I like him as a guy (but trying not to sound too Rivera-esue)

There was an interview I listened this off season, I think if I recall it was Jori Epstein on Galdi who shared that she was told that Dan Quinn isn't always a softie and they mentioned him chewing out Whitt over something as an example.

It might mean nothing but I am keeping it in the back of my head.

Ryan Clark is supposedly Whitt's best friend and isn't shy to heap praise on people and has praised Whitt in the past in his role running the secondary. Don't recall any praise from Clark so far for Whitt's job running this defensive unit, if so that's maybe interesting. At a minimum, he might not be convinced he'd have someone echo him if he did it.

I am sort of where Sheehan is on this. Sheehan makes the point lighter than me but specifically as to stopping the run he's said from time to time, the players on this defense aren't that bad if you look at it individual to individual -- implying this unit plays perhaps as a lesser than the sum of its parts.

I feel the same way, a team that had Payne, Allen, Wagner, Luvu and Chinn shouldn't be epically bad against the run. i get that the issue was the edge primarily. But I pointed this out after watching the Eagles-Commanders playoff game -- that unit came off disorganized as to maintaining gaps. Logan Paulsen also alluded to the same point as to a key problem stopping the run is players not filling their assignments well.

He talks to death as does Quinn about ball is life. Yet, Forbes, St. Juste, Lattimore were arguably worse than they were the season before. They had one less pick than Del Rio's unit the season before.

Don't get me wrong I don't love the talent on this unit. But I do think this unit doesn't always look hotly coached. The one thing they overacheived on was something I believe Quinn put his stamp on which is manufacturing pass rush.
 
SIP your concerns about Whitt cannot be denied. But with DQ being a defensive minded coach and former successful DC, I can’t understand why he wouldn’t have stepped in somewhat if that was the problem. Maybe he’s not recognizing what you are, or maybe he just wants to give his guy the latitude to do his job. But either way Whitt was his guy coming over from Dallas so it seems like Whitt’s failures also have to fall at the feet of Coach Quinn. So I’m betting DQ will be watching over things very closely this year, and if the same problems persist, you’ll see him becoming more involved and we will be getting a new coordinator going into next year.
 
Absolutely. And considering context, this dude is trending to being the best QB we've landed since Sonny, there is zero chance I am saying yeah whatever Peters who wouldn't have taken Daniels.

This is the same team who took Heath Shuler. And I recall a SI article to this day about Shuler saying he's the next Troy Aikman. Same team that had Brad Johnson and discarded him for Jeff George. Same team that drafted Ramsey in the first. Same team that traded a third rounder for Mark Brunell. Same team that had their legendary coach fall in love with Jason Campbell and trade up for him in the first. Same team that hired a zany unqualified head coach in Jim Zorn to "fix" Campbell.

Mark Brunell was a better player than people remember, but Gibbs II had a few major blunders after the relative success of 2005: Bringing in Al Saunders and losing Ryan Clark were big mistakes, but the worst was taking Jason Campbell over Aaron Rodgers. For years I wondered how things would be different if they got that pick right.

Anyway great post. I recall all the agonizing history of QB ineptitude you’ve laid out. I’m still bitter about Dan Snyder blowing up that 1999 team with Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis.
 
SIP your concerns about Whitt cannot be denied. But with DQ being a defensive minded coach and former successful DC, I can’t understand why he wouldn’t have stepped in somewhat if that was the problem. Maybe he’s not recognizing what you are, or maybe he just wants to give his guy the latitude to do his job. But either way Whitt was his guy coming over from Dallas so it seems like Whitt’s failures also have to fall at the feet of Coach Quinn. So I’m betting DQ will be watching over things very closely this year, and if the same problems persist, you’ll see him becoming more involved and we will be getting a new coordinator going into next year.

I think Quinn would only kick in to a degree. For two reasons. 1. Quinn is big on not being that involved with the X's and O's especially in this HC stint and instead focusing on overseeing everything and building a culture. He's referenced that several times. 2. Whitt is a close friend. I doubt Whitt would love it in year 1 with Quinn correcting him on this or that or taking over. Whitt came from Dallas because he wanted to be in charge not play 2nd fiddle again for Quinn. So while I can see Quinn making suggestions, etc, tough for me to see him taking control or overriding Whitt.

I am not out on Whitt. I am just questioning whether he's the guy. Even if my concerns are correct, I also will give any coach a 2nd year to learn from season 1. He's a newbee defensive coordinator, I am sure you continue to evolve especially after year 1.

I guess I wondered about the hype about whether it was Dallas' coaching or talent were why they were so good at unearthing guys later in the draft who were good at taking the ball away. Was it Will McClay who seem think is the best personnel guy in the league unearthing gems? Was it Al Harris who some deem one of the best secondary coaches in the NFL helping their development? Was it Whitt?

Don't know but early evidence is it was unlikely that it was some magic touch from Whitt considering the players here especially at secondary didn't overachieve or were arguably even a whit better than they were under Del Rio.

But the thing that really bugged me above anything else was hold that defense folded in the 4th quarter with games on the line and folded against light-weight QBs like Rattler, Rush, Pickett, etc. Lol, it felt like John Beck can mount a successful 95 yard drive with 45 seconds to go against this defense with the game on the line.
 
Peters didn’t do a lot for Whitt in Year 1.

Most of the top draft picks were on offense.

Whitt got Newton but then he hurt his other foot and required surgery.

He got Jordan Magee but he missed the entire year.

Only Sainristil played the whole year.

Meanwhile #1, two #2 and both #3 were ALL on the other side of ball.

Also Whitt was forced to keep Jamin Davis and Forbes on roster until they proved they couldn’t play a lick.
 
My guess would be that Quinn put in his two cents plenty in coaching meetings and during the week with Whitt which is mostly as it should be. Everyone brainstorms and develops the plan of attack and then you let the field general do their thing. Quinn would only need to step in if Whitt went rogue and was not following the plan they all came up with. I'm sure there were several times a game where Quinn would have called x instead of Whitt's y, but that's always the case. Besides, even though the team blew expectations out of the water last year was meant to be a developmental year for everyone. Whitt needed to earn his stripes as well as his scars.
 
My mind went to McCaffrey immediately. I imagine he could learn a lot from Welker.

SIP, I am glad that you continue question Whitt, I see your questions as valid. He still has proving to do for me but I like him as a guy (but trying not to sound too Rivera-esue)

Whitt is probably a good dude, but there was an interview right after he was hired where he seemed to take issue with someone asking why he thought he was ready to be a coordinator.

I don't remember exactly how he responded, but he acted kinda douchy and entitled. Didn't sit well with me.... left me not super excited about him.

I get that you want a guy who believes he should be there, but it seemed tone def to me.
 
I
Whitt is probably a good dude, but there was an interview right after he was hired where he seemed to take issue with someone asking why he thought he was ready to be a coordinator.

I don't remember exactly how he responded, but he acted kinda douchy and entitled. Didn't sit well with me.... left me not super excited about him.

I get that you want a guy who believes he should be there, but it seemed tone def to me.
I took more as confidence over douchy but they do often border each other lol
 
Mark Brunell was a better player than people remember, but Gibbs II had a few major blunders after the relative success of 2005: Bringing in Al Saunders and losing Ryan Clark were big mistakes, but the worst was taking Jason Campbell over Aaron Rodgers. For years I wondered how things would be different if they got that pick right.

Anyway great post. I recall all the agonizing history of QB ineptitude you’ve laid out. I’m still bitter about Dan Snyder blowing up that 1999 team with Brad Johnson and Stephen Davis.
Letting Clark go sucked, horrible move. You are correct taking Campbell over most anyone was a bad move. They moved up giving up a 4th and 5th to get Cambell too, effing crazy.
 
Peters didn’t do a lot for Whitt in Year 1.

Most of the top draft picks were on offense.

Whitt got Newton but then he hurt his other foot and required surgery.

He got Jordan Magee but he missed the entire year.

Only Sainristil played the whole year.

Meanwhile #1, two #2 and both #3 were ALL on the other side of ball.

Also Whitt was forced to keep Jamin Davis and Forbes on roster until they proved they couldn’t play a lick.

Peters could have done more. But it also could be articulated in a different way.

5 out of their 9 picks were on defense including two 2nd rounders. More of their bigger FAs were on defense too. He overhauled the LB spot, with Luvu and Wagner. He brought Armstrong who was a decent pass rusher, Fowler with 10 plus sacks. Chinn at safety. Traded for Lattimore.

Three draft picks making an impact in year 1 from the defensive unit, isn't bad.

The talent level was meh. But to rank 31st via PFF on defense versus the weakest schedule in the NFL and to be at its worst in the 4th quarter and with the game on the line no matter what scrub was playing QB -- and to talk to death about ball is life yet have less picks than the season before under Del Rio. And not being able to stop anyone on the ground.

It's a lot to forgive in my book, where am not thinking he made lemonade out of lemons.
 
Peters could have done more. But it also could be articulated in a different way.

5 out of their 9 picks were on defense including two 2nd rounders. More of their bigger FAs were on defense too. He overhauled the LB spot, with Luvu and Wagner. He brought Armstrong who was a decent pass rusher, Fowler with 10 plus sacks. Chinn at safety. Traded for Lattimore.

Three draft picks making an impact in year 1 from the defensive unit, isn't bad.

The talent level was meh. But to rank 31st via PFF on defense versus the weakest schedule in the NFL and to be at its worst in the 4th quarter and with the game on the line no matter what scrub was playing QB -- and to talk to death about ball is life yet have less picks than the season before under Del Rio. And not being able to stop anyone on the ground.

It's a lot to forgive in my book, where am not thinking he made lemonade out of lemons.

A GM could always do more to help the defense, in the literal sense.

We just drafted our franchise QB at 2. His development was/is what was going to determine the success of our franchise moving forward. Supporting Jayden was unquestionably the right decision. Same with Deebo and Tunsil and Conerly this offseason. Prioritizing anything other than maximizing Daniels would be malpractice. There will come a time probably, where Daniels allows us to invest less in WR’s etc, like a Tim Brady, or Josh Allen. I don’t think that’s year 2.

SIP, regarding Daron looking motivated this offseason, I think maybe the best thing that could happen, is that he posts 8 or 9 sacks, our pass rush is improved by interior pressure, and we trade him in the offseason to recoup some of the pics from the Tunsil trade.

Also, while we are talking draft, and Luke McCaffrey and Ben Sinnott, I thought we did a better job this year avoiding reaches. All of our picks looked like great value to me, other than Kain Medrano, who was probably picked in an appropriate range. I think having more time to pull together a staff and scouting infrastructure was very beneficial.
 
SIP, regarding Daron looking motivated this offseason, I think maybe the best thing that could happen, is that he posts 8 or 9 sacks, our pass rush is improved by interior pressure, and we trade him in the offseason to recoup some of the pics from the Tunsil trade.

Big time. While I find the Daron is motivated in contract years a bit tacky. The money signs he made after each sack in his contract year didn't age well with me.

But, if that's what drives Daron to do his best -- then we should be in for a big season and I'll take it.

I'd release him regardless after this season. Because I suspect after he gets his next contract, its back to mediocrity from him.
 

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