The 2025 Draft Thread

[skinsinparadise]

At this point before the draft I agree with your statement about Giddens but long does he last on Day 3 and how high is AP on Marks from USC or other RBs. Our staff has met with Marks 3 times that we know of and only 1 time with Giddens. That's not the tell all about who we might draft at RB but it may give us some clues. Giddens never fumbled the ball in his CFB career and Marks is not a fumbler either. I like that a lot. It's going to be interesting. The draft is almost here.

I think Giddens is gone in the third.

I think Marks probably somewhere in the 5th albiet some have him in the 7th or UDFA. The scouts for McGinn didn't put him in their top 17.

Marks to me is a pure replacement for Ekeler. And is likely better than Ekeler, the current version of Ekeler, more explosive in open field.

The knock on Marks seems to be he's the oldest RB in this class and one of the least athletic and one of the worst at breaking tackles -- now that sounds really bad in combination. But...

Sort of like Kalen Johnson is bigger than the sum of his parts where if he finds some daylight, he's hard to catch even though he doesn't have breakaway speed. Marks to me is similar. Maybe Marks won't take it to the house but give him the ball in space and he will hit his share of doublesand can dodge tackles well in open space.

I don't see Marks as a replacement for Robinson. He's not the type to get tough yards and be an everyday back IMO. But, I think he can be our new Chris Thompson type and be really good at that role. I like Brashard Smith and LeQuint Allen a little more as pass catching RBs but Marks would be the next fav for me in that Chris Thompson role.

In the late 4th range, if they wait that long, I think there is a shot RJ Harvey is there who is almost as old as Marks and that's part of the reason why. I'd take him in a heartbeat in that range. After Harvey, I'd take one of your guys Devin Neal in that range, too. He's not fast. But he's steady and does everything well albiet nothing spectacular on any one thing. But he has the traits to be an everyday running back.

 

[bifflog]

 

[skinsinparadise]

I’m brand loyal to Mel. As I’ve said before, the draft is nothing without Mel. He invented this whole industry.

He’s the GOAT and there isn’t a close second.

Ironically, he’s not often right when he goes in hard on a player. But he’s still the best.

Mel is entertaining and I like him. But talking purely as far as entertaining draft podcasts -- Mel and McShay were like McCartney-Lennon to me. Not because of their acumen but because they are an entertaining listen. McShay and Mel apart aren't as good on their podcasts but I'd give the nod to McShay as far as having the more entertaining podcast -- McShay goes deeper into the prospects, and is more amusing.

But both dudes IMO need a better sparring partner. For McShay -- Muench seems like a nice guy but is fairly boring IMO and has an annoying laugh that comes off canned like he's programmed to laugh at any McShay joke. Yates is a bit boring too. Kiper tries to stir it up but Yates comes off a bit canned as to banter though I'd say he's better at it than Muench.

It was painful to listen to Kiper-J. Reid, M. Miller and Yates on a back and forth mock in their latest podcast. And no hate there on my end. I like for example all of those guys especially Reid individually. But all those guys are so stiff at banter -- except for Kiper that I'd rather not hear them try to do it.

All these guys am good with individually. But at least for me, I want some entertainment when listening to draft podcasts. The NFL Exchange for me is really good on that front (PFF guys), Sikemma, etc. They keep it lively. The other PFF guys, Monson and Steve P are OK but not as good. IMHO, McShay has it cooking the most right now and I can deal with his partner because Mcshay dominates the talking.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Mel is entertaining and I like him. But talking purely as far as entertaining draft podcasts -- Mel and McShay were like McCartney-Lennon to me.

I get this, and McShay might even be a better listen.

But there is no McShay without Mel. And Mel was the only one who would actively go after teams for not drafting well for years. The industry has changed tremendously since then. But I still feel like all the draftniks should give Mel 20% of their gross take home as a thank you. Even McShay.

 

[skinsinparadise]

If we miss on the top two tiers of RBs, Giddens and Harvey are definitely the next in line. IMO RB is a big need and these guys are the last men standing for someone who can be impactful this year.

I find it odd that Giddens doesn't fumble but has been known to drop catches. Figure it is all related to concentration but funny he has great hands in one aspect and sketchy in the other.

I've watched all his reps, it comes off concentration driven as to drops. But he makes some nice catches, too.

I'd put Sampson in that category for me, too. Judging by McGinn's scouts, the mock draft community is higher on Sampson than the NFL. But will see. PFF loves Sampson for example and thinks very little of Tuten. But the McGinn scouts have Tuten ranked ahead of Sampson.

Sampson with small hands and also had some drops and fumbles. And in spite of his speed, doesn't have many breakaway runs. But he's a feisty runner who can get tough yards. And with his speed, he could grow into a breakaway threat. I trust Tuten much more than Sampson to take it to the house. But I trust Sampson more to get tough yards especially in the red zone.

But Giddens and to some extent Harvey are more everyday backs. I think of those 4 -- Giddens and Sampson are most likely gone by the late 4th. Tuten and Harvey are probably gone but it wouldn't shock me if one of those are there.

The other move in the late 4th is to go for a pass catching RB: Lequint Allen, Brashard Smith, Jaydon Blue, Woody Marks. PFF is higher on Blue than they are on Tuten. Not me. But Blue purely as a pass catching RB intrigues me.

 

[The Chump Bailey]

Who are some space eating NTs we can get late Day 3? The Chump Bailey Have you looked at Nazir Stackhouse and Jay Toia? For the latter, Logan brought him up when be was talking Schwesinger and mentioned his strong run stopping ability and he being a reason Schwesinger didn’t have to take on a lot of blocks

I was in the process of trying to rank this group but got sidetracked; however, I do like Toia because he affords some pass rushing juice. Nazir is strictly a space-eater type. I also like Cam Jackson Florida quite a bit he impressed me at the SB practices but the guy I think is being underrated and could be a Day 3 gem is the Tennessee NT Elijah Simmons. Actually both of Tennessee's NT's are good.

 

[The Chump Bailey]

There's a RB out of UC Davis that get's significant buzz Lan Larison and his tape is good - really good pass catching type. I forgot to mention him but maybe someone else has

 

[skinsinparadise]

I get this, and McShay might even be a better listen.

But there is no McShay without Mel. And Mel was the only one who would actively go after teams for not drafting well for years. The industry has changed tremendously since then. But I still feel like all the draftniks should give Mel 20% of their gross take home as a thank you. Even McShay.

I didn't want to like the Kiper-McShay podcasts at first because my initial thought was maybe McShay is doing some canned banter just to push Kiper. And it felt that they brought McShay just to give Kiper a younger foil. But over time, I found they are both really good at banter. Have a few drinks with and banter at the bar about sports or whatever types.

Listening to those two seperately, going back to my Beatles analogy. I like McCartney and Lennon solo records. And I know its cooler to say Lennon > McCartney. Lennon came first, he created the band, etc. But I actually think McCartney's solo records are better. And McShay on his own unleashed is surprisingly more entertaining to me than Mel -- though I still love both.

 

[skinsinparadise]

There's a RB out of UC Davis that get's significant buzz Lan Larison and his tape is good - really good pass catching type. I forgot to mention him but maybe someone else has

The PFF guys (Monson and Steve P) like to push him. I'll get to watching him. the other one is Kiner from Cincy, I have to watch.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I was in the process of trying to rank this group but got sidetracked; however, I do like Toia because he affords some pass rushing juice. Nazir is strictly a space-eater type. I also like Cam Jackson Florida quite a bit he impressed me at the SB practices but the guy I think is being underrated and could be a Day 3 gem is the Tennessee NT Elijah Simmons. Actually both of Tennessee's NT's are good.

I got to get to Cam, the PFF podcast guys are high on him. They love him as a run stuffer but think he has no pass rushing chops.

 

[philibusters]

Am actually higher on their 2022 one. Agree 2023 is sort of meh. I like their 2022 draft. Am not knocking them for the number of picks because that's a good organizational move to compile picks. If you factor the number of picks, and factoring in context like that, not sure we killed it last year.

But I don't look at it like that. How many good players did you get.

I'd kill for Thibodeaux. McFadden is a good LB and might be growing into a very good one. Bellinger not bad for a 2nd-3rd TE, at a minimum he looks better than Sinnott thus far even though Sinnott was taken earlier. Wandale Robinson got banged up last year but the two seasons before that he was a good slot WR. Dane Belton is a decent safety, not great but not bad.

I just read they are going to try to convert Neal to guard ala what was done with Belton in Philly, that right now looks like a big swing and miss, hopefully the guard conversion fails. Though the point is to see how they drafts age.

I am a lot lower on Thibodeaux. I think he is fine #2 DE. Around the level of Dorrence Armstrong. He has never had more than 43 pressures in a season. He is a solid, but not good run defender. If he was the 20th pick I would be fine with that, but he was the 5th overall pick so that seems underwhelming. A lot of how you feel about him probably depends on how much weight you put into his 11.5 sack season in 2023. He only 43 pressures and had a bad pass rush win rate (6.4% where you are looking for 10 or 11% from a number 2 DE--though in fairness to him he more than doubled his pass rush win rate in 2024 despite only getting 5 sacks) so I view it as a solid 2 DE benefitting from playing with Dexter Lawrence and having a wild man in Wink Martindale as the DC generating some unblocked pressures. In some ways I view it the same as when Daron Payne had like 12 sacks on 47 pressures or something like that. A bit fluky.

Evan Neal was a bust with the 7th overall pick.. I mostly agree with the other takes. McFadden is a decent starting LB. Maybe a Cole Holecomb level starter. Bellinger is a decent. He definitely looks better than Sinnott. Wandale Robinson is a fine starting WR, but nothing special. Belton is a okay starting safety. You are right it was an okay draft when you consider they arguably got 5 starting caliber players from it (I was probably too down it), but when you consider the draft capital they had with picks 5 and 7 plus 3 other top 100 picks, it was only okay because I don't see a single plus player. The types of starters they got were the types of starters you can get in free agency (albeit getting them in the draft cost controls).

 

[philibusters]

In terms of round 1, the guys I would be fine with taking are:

RB: Hampton
TE: Loveland
WR: Egbuka, Golden
T: Banks, Simmons, Connerly
G: Zabel, Booker
DE: Stewart, Green, Donovan Ez., Pearce, Walker
DT: Nolen
LB: Campbell
CB: Barron, Revel, Amos
S. Starks, Emmanawori

So that is 21 guys I would feel fine taking. Granted probably 14 or 15 of those guys are off the board at 29. If I was ranking them 1-20 I tentatively would go (team need plays into this ranking--its based on a mix of how good I think they are, team need, and position value)

1. Shemar Stewart:
2. Josh Simmons
3. Mike Green
4. Donovan Ez.
5. Jalon Walker
6. Kelvin Banks
7. James Pearce
8. Colston Loveland
9. Jahdae Barron
10. Shavon Revel
11. Trey Amos
12. Matthew Golden
13. Emeka Egbuka
14. Josh Connerly
15. Malachi Starks
16. Walter Nolen
17. Jihad Campbell
18. Gray Zabel
19. Omarion Hampton
20. Tyler Booker
21. Nick Emmanawori

If I ranked the same 21 guys tomorrow without looking at this ranking, I would probably have a similar list but a couple guys would have moved up or down a spot or two so it definitely has some wiggle room. I think all the guys have at least a small chance of being available at 29. I didn't list guys who I thought had no realistic shot at being available at 29.

 

[DWinzit]

I've watched all his reps, it comes off concentration driven as to drops. But he makes some nice catches, too.

I'd put Sampson in that category for me, too. Judging by McGinn's scouts, the mock draft community is higher on Sampson than the NFL. But will see. PFF loves Sampson for example and thinks very little of Tuten. But the McGinn scouts have Tuten ranked ahead of Sampson.

Sampson with small hands and also had some drops and fumbles. And in spite of his speed, doesn't have many breakaway runs. But he's a feisty runner who can get tough yards. And with his speed, he could grow into a breakaway threat. I trust Tuten much more than Sampson to take it to the house. But I trust Sampson more to get tough yards especially in the red zone.

But Giddens and to some extent Harvey are more everyday backs. I think of those 4 -- Giddens and Sampson are most likely gone by the late 4th. Tuten and Harvey are probably gone but it wouldn't shock me if one of those are there.

The other move in the late 4th is to go for a pass catching RB: Lequint Allen, Brashard Smith, Jaydon Blue, Woody Marks. PFF is higher on Blue than they are on Tuten. Not me. But Blue purely as a pass catching RB intrigues me.

I am just not in on Sampson.

I have not been big on Washington selecting a RB early in the draft in years. This year however is different. It is a strong RB class and I feel like the team needs a dynamic RB to add to this offense to get them over the hump. I really want them to take one in the early 2nd round and no later the 3rd otherwise the "dynamic" part is out the window.

 

[RWJ]

I think Giddens is gone in the third.

I think Marks probably somewhere in the 5th albiet some have him in the 7th or UDFA. The scouts for McGinn didn't put him in their top 17.

Marks to me is a pure replacement for Ekeler. And is likely better than Ekeler, the current version of Ekeler, more explosive in open field.

The knock on Marks seems to be he's the oldest RB in this class and one of the least athletic and one of the worst at breaking tackles -- now that sounds really bad in combination. But...

Sort of like Kalen Johnson is bigger than the sum of his parts where if he finds some daylight, he's hard to catch even though he doesn't have breakaway speed. Marks to me is similar. Maybe Marks won't take it to the house but give him the ball in space and he will hit his share of doublesand can dodge tackles well in open space.

I don't see Marks as a replacement for Robinson. He's not the type to get tough yards and be an everyday back IMO. But, I think he can be our new Chris Thompson type and be really good at that role. I like Brashard Smith and LeQuint Allen a little more as pass catching RBs but Marks would be the next fav for me in that Chris Thompson role.

In the late 4th range, if they wait that long, I think there is a shot RJ Harvey is there who is almost as old as Marks and that's part of the reason why. I'd take him in a heartbeat in that range. After Harvey, I'd take one of your guys Devin Neal in that range, too. He's not fast. But he's steady and does everything well albiet nothing spectacular on any one thing. But he has the traits to be an everyday running back.

Great stuff, SIP. Sure glad your on BGO with the rest of the gang from ES. Yes, my eyes see Marks burst as top 3 of RBs. My eyes deceive me but it's what I see. He will get you 5 to 10 yards and more in some runs. He has great hands and I like that and I agree with the Ekeler comparison.

I like Johnson a ton. His burst seems a tad slow (others say his burst is good) and again, my eyes probably deceive me. If AP were to draft Johnson with our #61 if we still have it, I'd be good with that, if Henderson was already taken.

Giddens, I think is available until the very early 4th (to about pick #112). If so and we didn't have a RB, he be a great get if we had an early 4th pick acquired in a Day 1 or Day 2 trade. Only issue with him that has been spoken about is his receiving hands and his pass and run blocking are meh.

Final thoughts in this post is I get the feeling that AP is going hard for EDGE, S or visa versa CB and then RB. If he trades down (which I believe he will) then depending on who is available and if AP re-adjust things on his board with whoever is available at that time, RB could be an option in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[RWJ]

I am just not in on Sampson.

 

[method man]

I was in the process of trying to rank this group but got sidetracked; however, I do like Toia because he affords some pass rushing juice. Nazir is strictly a space-eater type. I also like Cam Jackson Florida quite a bit he impressed me at the SB practices but the guy I think is being underrated and could be a Day 3 gem is the Tennessee NT Elijah Simmons. Actually both of Tennessee's NT's are good.

If all goes well, I am hopeful a rookie NT can send Goldman to the PS

 

[method man]

Jordan Davis is 6 '6. Y. Black is 6 5 1/2, same size as Alfred Collins. Ty Robinson is 6 '5, according to Pauline we have interest in him. Savion Jones 6 5 1/2. Deone Walker 6 7 1/2,

Deone Walker is a great example of a guy who struggles with pad level partially because he is too tall. He was apparently getting owned by 5-11 270 Willie Lampkin at the Senior Bowl

 

[method man]

I think I’d be a little surprised if we don’t walk away with a UCLA defender in the draft or UDFA given the Ken Norton connection. He coached 3 draftable guys as their position coach in Oladejo, Schwesinger and Medrano. We know how much these guys love getting guys they’ve previously coached

 

[skinsinparadise]

Deone Walker is a great example of a guy who struggles with pad level partially because he is too tall. He was apparently getting owned by 5-11 270 Willie Lampkin at the Senior Bowl

Walker is an erratic player in general. He's taller than Y. Black though. Alfred Collins some say is the best run-stuffing tackle in the draft, he's the exact same hight as Y. Black. Cam Jackson who The Chump Bailey mentioned, and the PFF guys talked about beeing a beast nose tackle against the run is a half an inch taller than Black.

I've watched Black, he anchors well against the run. If you suspect he can't do it in the NFL well because of being 6 5/12, that's your call. I am just giving you my take which you can take or leave of course, its all cool.


Here's Brugler's Beast Guide about him

A two-year starter at Iowa, Black played both one- and three-technique defensive tackle in defensive coordinator Phil Parker’s four-man front. His stats won’t jump off the page, but Black was a star in the Hawkeyes’ scheme, because of his ability to command blocking attention. Doing so freed up the linebackers, specifically Jay Higgins, who had 295 combined tackles over the past two seasons.

A stout run defender, Black has outstanding size and uses his big-man balance to occupy space or hold the point. With his length and the strength in his hands, he can snatch/toss blockers but doesn’t offer much as a pass rusher beyond a basic bull. Overall, Black looks every bit the part of a “do your job” defender who clogs run lanes and does the dirty work, although he will need to improve his disruptive skills to be a three-down player. He offers the scheme versatility to become a role player in any system.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think I’d be a little surprised if we don’t walk away with a UCLA defender in the draft or UDFA given the Ken Norton connection. He coached 3 draftable guys as their position coach in Oladejo, Schwesinger and Medrano. We know how much these guys love getting guys they’ve previously coached

I got to watch Schwesinger. I've spent no time on the LBs, its the only position I haven't watched.

I've watched some Oladejo and I like what I saw, need to watch more. But he has the worst pass rush win rates among the 30 or so DEs that I've compiled stats on. I know he's new to the position and the thought is he will keep growing. But on the surface, it feels like a Ron Rivera style pick if they pick him in the late first or in the early 2nd in a trade down. The PFF guys were talking about all the hype around him the other day saying they get it if its the late third or early 4th but doesn't warrant an early pick like the buzz has been. Not that I need to hear that from them. But to me their late round 2nd at the earlier for Oladejo.

Why it would feel Rivera style if it went earlier, it would feel more like they are in love with the narrative over more productive and proven players at the same position. I get that Oladejo is a great locker room guy and plays hard and is a "Commander" type of dude. But don't IMO overdraft him for that reason.

As a pure pass rusher, I would take some guys with less buzz like Gillotte and Swinson before Oladejo. Stewart, too. But lol, don't want to jinx it. Last time I made a similar point before the draft was knocking the idea of taking Forbes in the first round when the buzz started to build that we liked him more than most and I made the case that was too early.

I'll say this though I do like everything I hear about Oladejo's personality and like that he plays with oomph. And he's a good run stuffer. So even if the pass rushing chops don't develop, I don't think there is any concern about him being a bust.

As far as personality goes, I've read that Princely isn't the hottest dude. Too bad, because if he checked out on that front, he'd be another guy I'd like in the late 2nd.

I suspect at the moment if I had to guess we will wind up with one among these guys: JT, Scourton, Oladejo, Landon Jackson.