The 2025 Draft Thread


"Sometimes the media hasn't caught up to the league yet." - Adam Peters.

Nobody is flying up or down a team's board at this point unless something extrodinary happens, and mostly those would be bad things: arrest, picture smoking a bong in a gas mask, etc.

I can't think of anything which would cause a player to skyrocket up a team's board.

Skyrocketing up Mel Kiper's board as he collects more information? Sure.
 
I want to see a trade back but not the one suggested in that Mock Draft. 29 for 38, 106 and 239 (238 really) is not equitable on the trade charts. 38, 106 and 144 is almost even.

:indian-chief: The Rook

Personally, I wouldn't want to accept anything past 100 to move back from 29, unless it was only to like 33/34 and there were like 5-6 guys on the board we liked still.

I think I have a different view of the talent tiers from many people tho. Like Trevor Sikema was talking about how the talent from 15-60 is pretty similar, which I don't know if I agree with that. I'd mark the line at like somewhere between 27-36 players depending on which side of the line guys like Revel, Hairston, Scourton, Emmanwori, Zabel, Booker, and Burden fall.
 
"Sometimes the media hasn't caught up to the league yet." - Adam Peters.

Nobody is flying up or down a team's board at this point unless something extrodinary happens, and mostly those would be bad things: arrest, picture smoking a bong in a gas mask, etc.

I can't think of anything which would cause a player to skyrocket up a team's board.

Skyrocketing up Mel Kiper's board as he collects more information? Sure.

There is no such thing as a proven consensus board that we can use though. So even playing along which one do you take? I'll give you an example, there is a dude who hasn't been taken yet which one of the boards I've looked at has going in the late 2nd round. But I agree with the consensus here on that player, so while I find it interesting it doesn't move me to take said player. When am doing this, I am looking at my own rankings, then looking at 3 others I trust, and those 3 are wildly different from each other. So lets say that board is pushing a player that they feel should go in this round. Good chance the other board would disagree. So I'll go and watch that player.

Lets take Tuten. Some think he's a third rounder. Some think he's a 4th rounder. Some think he's 5th rounder. Depends on the board. Some boards would think you'd be nuts to take Tuten over some of the RBs who went after. Some think its smart.

So if you just take any board and use that as a guideline it would introduce some bias into the process including judging how good the pick was. Also if someone really trusts a board made by name that person, lets say DJ, or Kiper or scout.com that much, then just print it out and use it.

But I know from my own preferences on players, some boards would back me up big time and others would say I was a moron. :cool: So I think let everyone beat to their own drum because speaking for myself there is not one board I trust as gospel. I tend to use boards more the deeper the draft goes. And even so I will watch some players before the pick and decide whether I agree with the takes or not.

Your idea of just listing players per position, to me that's fine as long as their is no grade or ranking of those players.

I think board consensus stuff is more on point for the first round, maybe top half of the 2nd. There is often much agreement albiet not full agreement on the top players. But once you get past that and take any board and compare it to another, they are often wildly divergent.
 
"Sometimes the media hasn't caught up to the league yet." - Adam Peters.

Nobody is flying up or down a team's board at this point unless something extrodinary happens, and mostly those would be bad things: arrest, picture smoking a bong in a gas mask, etc.

I can't think of anything which would cause a player to skyrocket up a team's board.

Skyrocketing up Mel Kiper's board as he collects more information? Sure.

I agree with the flying up the board stuff is nonsense. I love Sheehan but he's the biggest culprit of this comment. He says it 50 million times during the draft season and I cringe each time he says it.
 
There is no such thing as a proven consensus board that we can use though. So even playing along which one do you take? I'll give you an example, there is a dude who hasn't been taken yet which one of the boards I've looked at has going in the late 2nd round. But I agree with the consensus here on that player, so while I find it interesting it doesn't move me to take said player. When am doing this, I am looking at my own rankings, then looking at 3 others I trust, and those 3 are wildly different from each other. So lets say that board is pushing a player that they feel should go in this round. Good chance the other board would disagree. So I'll go and watch that player.

Lets take Tuten. Some think he's a third rounder. Some think he's a 4th rounder. Some think he's 5th rounder. Depends on the board. Some boards would think you'd be nuts to take Tuten over some of the RBs who went after. Some think its smart.

So if you just take any board and use that as a guideline it would introduce some bias into the process including judging how good the pick was. Also if someone really trusts a board made by name that person, lets say DJ, or Kiper or scout.com that much, then just print it out and use it.

But I know from my own preferences on players, some boards would back me up big time and others would say I was a moron. :cool: So I think let everyone beat to their own drum because speaking for myself there is not one board I trust as gospel. I tend to use boards more the deeper the draft goes. And even so I will watch some players before the pick and decide whether I agree with the takes or not.

Your idea of just listing players per position, to me that's fine as long as their is no grade or ranking of those players.

I think board consensus stuff is more on point for the first round, maybe top half of the 2nd. There is often much agreement albiet not full agreement on the top players. But once you get past that and take any board and compare it to another, they are often wildly divergent.
I think this post was probably meant for the other thread.

There IS a consensus board, though. Maybe more than one. The one I look at takes 150 different boards and mocks and does math to figure out approximately where players rank. Galdi had a segment on this with one of the folks who puts one together. There was a term (which I can't remember) but it used something like the "law of big sample size" or something to get closer to what the general consensus on a player was.

I wouldn't use it as a draft board, even for a mock draft, but if you're judging how far a player is away from "the average" then it's as good a spot to look at.

We talked about this with Ron because his picks were often WAY off the consensus boards. Which screamed "I'm smarter than everybody!" I think either Conn of Califan originally brought it up, but I could be mis-remembering.

On the topic of the mock draft, yeah, just a list of who's taken is all I was really getting at. Alphabetical by position would be fine. Challenge there would be keeping it up to date. It also might be a stupid idea. Not all thoughts turn into good ideas. :)
 
I think this post was probably meant for the other thread.

There IS a consensus board, though. Maybe more than one. The one I look at takes 150 different boards and mocks and does math to figure out approximately where players rank. Galdi had a segment on this with one of the folks who puts one together. There was a term (which I can't remember) but it used something like the "law of big sample size" or something to get closer to what the general consensus on a player was.

I wouldn't use it as a draft board, even for a mock draft, but if you're judging how far a player is away from "the average" then it's as good a spot to look at.

We talked about this with Ron because his picks were often WAY off the consensus boards. Which screamed "I'm smarter than everybody!" I think either Conn of Califan originally brought it up, but I could be mis-remembering.

On the topic of the mock draft, yeah, just a list of who's taken is all I was really getting at. Alphabetical by position would be fine. Challenge there would be keeping it up to date. It also might be a stupid idea. Not all thoughts turn into good ideas. :)

Yeah i think its Tankathon or whatever that averages them out. And its usually used for the top round, sometimes round 2. And I referenced that in my point.

Do you ever hear the consenus third round? Or hey he was way off the consensus board for the 4th round? That's rare for me to see that referenced. It's usually something like Kiper had him in the 2nd and you got him in the 4th or DJ ranked him as a 4th rounder and you took him early in 2nd so great pick. Stuff like that.

I subscribe to everything. So I can see scout.com. PFF. Every ESPN insider who does one. SI. I look at McGinn's scouts rankings. On and on. Once you get past the 2nd round, you wouldn't believe how wildly they are different from one another. So averaging them really mean nothing to me because they are too divergent to form an average. The McGinn scouts for example have players in the 3rd round that PFF doesn't even have as UDFAs and vice versa. You look at Mcshay's top 150, its wildly different in places from others I look at.

It's a whole different animal from the top picks to diving deeper. I can go along with a consensus on Nick Scorton for example. Some have him as a late first rounder. Some an early 2nd rounder. Worse case some had him as a late third. Most have him early 2nd. You average it all together and he's an early 2nd. It makes sense. But i am not interested in averaging a dude who some have ranked as a third rounder, others as a 7th, others as undraftable. Averaging all of those mean nothing to me.
 
Just watched some Gadsden. That dude is not a TE IMO, he doesn't even remotely look physically like a TE to me. He's a big WR IMO.
 
Listening to Logan Paulsen on Standig. Looks like he agrees with Mcginn's scouts who put Landon Jackson and Scourton ahead of Ezeiruaku. Not me. The one shake my head comment in it was Paulsen saying about Ezeiruaku that he's a dude that no one is talking about. Say what? This isn't some obscure off the radar prospect. Paulsen would take S. Revel if it was up to him at 29. And then he used Smoot as some validation that he's on the right track since Smoot likes him, too,

I love Paulsen and I like Smoot. And look of course we all get some wrong. But after Smoot's big swing and miss about Forbes am not trusting his takes as to having any deep meaning. And it wasn't about him getting Forbes wrong it was how giddy he was about him.

Sort of how I had a man crush on McConkey in the last draft. Smoot had a mega man crush on Forbes. You would think he hit the lottery the day we took him. So if you are at the level giddy about a prospect and they are an absolute bust -- then at a minimum I'll take their next draft man crush with a grain of salt.

lol, its making me think who is my absolute man crush in this draft. I like a lot of players. But there isn't one dude am totally fixated on but I got to think about that some.
 
lol, its making me think who is my absolute man crush in this draft. I like a lot of players. But there isn't one dude am totally fixated on but I got to think about that some.
I get that. I wonder if it's due to a couple of different factors this year compared to the recent past:
  • While the roster has weaknesses, they aren't out right holes like they have been.
  • Uncertainty of APs way or should I say direction. We all knew what Riveras was sadly
  • The first pick is 29 so not paying close attention to many of the top tier players that are easier to crush on
  • This draft has a wealth of talent into day three, especially at positions of weakness for us
  • He thought of drafting "Commanders" players may taint your view of certain players more positive or negatively than would normally be the case. Easy examples are Green and Pearce.
We all have players we like more than others but they may not fit here for various reasons. Like it or not, the Commanders situation each year enters our mind as we evaluate...like your McConkey crush, we needed a WR badly. It also probably moves into Logan's thoughts of Landon Jackson just as it did for you and I. He feels like the perfect AP/DQ/Whitt "Commander" type player and a position of need. I think he'd be great fun but I like Eze more Scourten, he would be further down my board.

Well, that's all my conjecture but I do feel similar to you for some reason this year
 
I get that. I wonder if it's due to a couple of different factors this year compared to the recent past:
  • While the roster has weaknesses, they aren't out right holes like they have been.
  • Uncertainty of APs way or should I say direction. We all knew what Riveras was sadly
  • The first pick is 29 so not paying close attention to many of the top tier players that are easier to crush on
  • This draft has a wealth of talent into day three, especially at positions of weakness for us
  • He thought of drafting "Commanders" players may taint your view of certain players more positive or negatively than would normally be the case. Easy examples are Green and Pearce.
We all have players we like more than others but they may not fit here for various reasons. Like it or not, the Commanders situation each year enters our mind as we evaluate...like your McConkey crush, we needed a WR badly. It also probably moves into Logan's thoughts of Landon Jackson just as it did for you and I. He feels like the perfect AP/DQ/Whitt "Commander" type player and a position of need. I think he'd be great fun but I like Eze more Scourten, he would be further down my board.

Well, that's all my conjecture but I do feel similar to you for some reason this year

Yeah that's part of it. Some of it is for example on McConkey, i was in on him early, and just loved watching him play. It's not that i thought he was the best player in that draft, but he's was my fav of the ones I watched and liked him early in the process.

I started this time a bit late so am not really early on anyone. Only exception is RJ Harvey. On a thread last year, when some were touting Jeanty, I was saying yeah he's amazing but if anyone has time watch that RB from UCF.

And while I dig Harvey still. I don't love him, the way i loved watching McConkey.

My closest is probably Skattebo. I was far from early on him. The buzz was there before I got into him. I love him from this context -- I think he fits this team VERY well. And lol the fact that some fans think the opposite, that he's not a good fit, has made me defend the idea if that's who they take.

But I really like in different ways like 18 backs in this class. And really dig in a big way about 10 of them. My list is so large that its hard for me to be hung up on anyone RB.

If I was doing a my guys like, top 20 fav players, I'd probably have 6 or 7 Rbs in that list.
 
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Listening to Logan Paulsen on Standig. Looks like he agrees with Mcginn's scouts who put Landon Jackson and Scourton ahead of Ezeiruaku. Not me. The one shake my head comment in it was Paulsen saying about Ezeiruaku that he's a dude that no one is talking about. Say what? This isn't some obscure off the radar prospect. Paulsen would take S. Revel if it was up to him at 29. And then he used Smoot as some validation that he's on the right track since Smoot likes him, too,

I love Paulsen and I like Smoot. And look of course we all get some wrong. But after Smoot's big swing and miss about Forbes am not trusting his takes as to having any deep meaning. And it wasn't about him getting Forbes wrong it was how giddy he was about him.

Sort of how I had a man crush on McConkey in the last draft. Smoot had a mega man crush on Forbes. You would think he hit the lottery the day we took him. So if you are at the level giddy about a prospect and they are an absolute bust -- then at a minimum I'll take their next draft man crush with a grain of salt.

lol, its making me think who is my absolute man crush in this draft. I like a lot of players. But there isn't one dude am totally fixated on but I got to think about that some.

I love Logan’s analysis but he is bad at the “what would you do”

By draft day, Logan and Craig wanted to take JJ over Jayden last year. He also really wanted us to take Darius Robinson last year - I never understood that because he’s out of central casting as a 3-4 DE
 
Do you think part of the reason you are so high on Skattebo is not only fun to watch but you know he is the poster child for the way AP/DQ and company want their players to play?

While not as strong, I feel similar to you with both RB's, WR's and DB's (mostly corners but their are a few awesome safeties) I might be the only one who outside of the top 2 really like Kaleb.
 
I agree with the flying up the board stuff is nonsense. I love Sheehan but he's the biggest culprit of this comment. He says it 50 million times during the draft season and I cringe each time he says it.

Only exception I can think of is an injured guy who didn’t participate in the combine killing the Pro Day
 
Yeah acquiring Tunsil took a huge weight off the roster building process knowing the OL could if it had to be, be complete.
Would it be great to use our top pick on a dude that can play RT and G or G and C, sure but it isn't necessary any more with all the other weaknesses that could receive focus early in the draft.

It’s still something of a fantasy for me that Josh Simmons falls. I’d love to have a stud pair of bookend tackles. But, I think that’s unlikely.

I think a guy that would fit your description of a guard/RT is Donovan Jackson. We have a lot of guys with guard potential though.

I might rather take a guy to develop at tackle. A long armed, high RAS guy that is raw and has the potential to develop into a great starter.

We are currently in a pretty good spot to draft a guy like Charles Grant, from William and Mary, and take a year or two to develop him.
 
Do you think part of the reason you are so high on Skattebo is not only fun to watch but you know he is the poster child for the way AP/DQ and company want their players to play?

While not as strong, I feel similar to you with both RB's, WR's and DB's (mostly corners but their are a few awesome safeties) I might be the only one who outside of the top 2 really like Kaleb.

I am high on him for this team and feisty on the point for two reasons.

A. The power back-speedy back discussion. There aren't a ton of RBs who can take it to the house on a regular basis. It's not easy. So backs who can consistently get doubles I value. Brian Robinson's issues aren't mostly about lack of speed. For a dude that size, a 4.53 40 is very good. He's just not a good RB IMO, he doesn't do anything well on a creative basis -- spin move, jump cuts, etc to make something out of nothing. He's a bowling ball that needs that crease to build momentum and if he doesn't get it, he's in trouble. Skattebo plays with much more ferocity and violence than Robinson and has much better contact balance than him. And he's also a great weapon in the passing game which Robinson is not.

B. I think it sets an identity for this team. Noah Brown, Bates, Deebo and Skattebo. That sets a tone and is painful to deal with. I suspect a back like Skattebo would be more of a handful for the Eagles then lets say Henderson (and I like Henderson). Look at what Kyren Williams did to the Eagles last year sans the fumble.

I think we are overrating some of the speed backs some. This is coming from a dude who loves these guys but the more I watch the more I see they also have flaws just like Skattebo has flaws. Henderson is injury prone and struggles against stacked boxes -- Henderson thrives against light boxes. He's not a #1 back. He doesn't get those tough yards in short situations. He's a rotational back. Skattebo can play on all three downs. Sampson is fast but he doesn't break many runs. You see the ones he does on his highlight film. But overall he has one of the "meh" numbers as far as having home run runs. And he's ok at best with his hands. Tuten and Blue fumble a lot, especially Blue. Tuten who i also like, mostly jukes his runs to the outside. Does that work with our run scheme? He's just OK at best as a pass catcher and is a bad pass protector.

My point isn't to slam any of these backs. But that they really all have something you can pick on aside from arguably Hampton if he falls to 29.
 
I am high on him for this team and feisty on the point for two reasons.

A. The power back-speedy back discussion. There aren't a ton of RBs who can take it to the house on a regular basis. It's not easy. So backs who can consistently get doubles I value. Brian Robinson's issues aren't mostly about lack of speed. For a dude that size, a 4.53 40 is very good. He's just not a good RB IMO, he doesn't do anything well on a creative basis -- spin move, jump cuts, etc to make something out of nothing. He's a bowling ball that needs that crease to build momentum and if he doesn't get it, he's in trouble. Skattebo plays with much more ferocity and violence than Robinson and has much better contact balance than him. And he's also a great weapon in the passing game which Robinson is not.

B. I think it sets an identity for this team. Noah Brown, Bates, Deebo and Skattebo. That sets a tone and is painful to deal with. I suspect a back like Skattebo would be more of a handful for the Eagles then lets say Henderson (and I like Henderson). Look at what Kyren Williams did to the Eagles last year sans the fumble.

I think we are overrating some of the speed backs some. This is coming from a dude who loves these guys but the more I watch the more I see they also have flaws just like Skattebo has flaws. Henderson is injury prone and struggles against stacked boxes -- Henderson thrives against light boxes. He's not a #1 back. He doesn't get those tough yards in short situations. He's a rotational back. Skattebo can play on all three downs. Sampson is fast but he doesn't break many runs. You see the ones he does on his highlight film. But overall he has one of the "meh" numbers as far as having home run runs. And he's ok at best with his hands. Tuten and Blue fumble a lot, especially Blue. Tuten who i also like, mostly jukes his runs to the outside. Does that work with our run scheme? He's just OK at best as a pass catcher and is a bad pass protector.

My point isn't to slam any of these backs. But that they really all have something you can pick on aside from arguably Hampton if he falls to 29.

I had a little bit of a similar thought about WR. I put a hard line through Luther Burden when we signed Deebo.

But, couldn’t we just have two guys out there that are elite YAC guys? More players that make Jayden’s job easier and can turn 10 into 20 and 20 into 6 points? That kind of physical team that thrives on YAC could really be hard for other teams to deal with, when we also have Terry and Jayden.

Also, I didn’t realize how ridiculous Darien Porter, CB from Iowa State, is. He measured 6’3” with 33 and 1/8” arms, 195 pounds, and ran a 4.3 flat with a 1.49 10, a 36.5” vertical and a 10’11” broad jump. He had the second fastest 3 cone at the combine, AND, the 2nd fastest short shuttle.

Apparently he’s only started one year at CB, mostly in zone coverage. He’s a converted WR, so his ball skills are supposed to be excellent.

I’d love to get this guy and let him sit and grow under our defensive staff. He’s the kind of high reward swing that occasionally produces pro bowl players in the mid to late rounds of the draft.
 
I guess the other dynamic to consider is that we will likely use a rotation of running backs. That means we don't need a running back who's great for all three downs (though it would be better.) With that in mind, the question is can BRob and/or CRod fulfill the power/thunder role well enough? If they can then who among BRob, Crod, Ekeler and McNichols can fill the lightning role? If the answer is no one then that may be the hole to fill. In other words, I think we can do okay with what we have on the goal line, short yardage, and first down, but where we are lacking is that spread 'em out and gash 'em player or the guy who everyone fears leaking out on third down and turning a swing pass into a massive gain.

SIP is correct. We don't have have a great power back and an upgrade might be nice. However, I think what we really struggle with is that all our backs are basically the same pitch. We need a change up.

(I wonder if at this point we ought to define single, double, and home run? For me a single is 3.5- 5 yards. A double is somewhere around 12-15 yards, and a homerun is a run of 30 plus yards or any touchdown longer than 20 yards. I suppose it would be easier to think of it as: Single 3-9 yards, Double 10- 25 yards, and HR 40+ or long TD run.)
 
We really don't have a thunder or a lightning back. All of the RB's besides Ekeler are meh. And as talented as he is, his concussion concerns should be in the forefront of any discussion pertaining to him.

I am in agreement with SIP that unless they grab Hampton if he falls, there is not a lot for a true all around 3 down back. Skattebo is one of the few that offers a variety of options. It is also why I like Kaleb even if he isn't known for his receiving skills. He can do it all, is tough, fights for the extra yard, healthy and doesn't fumble. But Skattebo would indeed be a tone setters like DQ in particular desires. I expect them to be looking for a tone setters on D also in this draft.
 
Both of you study the draft far more deeply than I do, but it's hard for me to believe that after hearing all offseason that this is a premier draft for running backs there are only two worthwhile all around starter candidates.
 
We really don't have a thunder or a lightning back. All of the RB's besides Ekeler are meh. And as talented as he is, his concussion concerns should be in the forefront of any discussion pertaining to him.

I am in agreement with SIP that unless they grab Hampton if he falls, there is not a lot for a true all around 3 down back. Skattebo is one of the few that offers a variety of options. It is also why I like Kaleb even if he isn't known for his receiving skills. He can do it all, is tough, fights for the extra yard, healthy and doesn't fumble. But Skattebo would indeed be a tone setters like DQ in particular desires. I expect them to be looking for a tone setters on D also in this draft.

How about Henderson?
 

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