The 2025 Draft Thread

We've got 3 RBs that can run into a wall and occasionally break through it.

Ekeler replacement is much more important I think,
I think we should actually approach this as the fact none of the RBs on the roster currently are going to be on the roster in 2026. None are under contract, which partially leads me to that conclusion. That includes McNichols and Chris Rodriguez. Could they sign one of them to a new contract after this year? Sure. But as of now, none are on the roster and none scream "sign me! sign me! sign me!"

So I think finding replacements for all of them is probably important.

It's another reason why I think they're going to take a fairly good swing at it in this draft, and draft a guy earlier than you might think. I was thinking possibly the 4th round pick, but I've re-considered, and now I think it could be any pick in the draft. And especially if they could trade down from 29 into the top part of the second round and pick up a pick, then I think it's a lock they get the best guy they can get in the second.

I'm on record saying I think BRob might be damaged goods. If he has the yips, then he's not going to recover. Maybe they think he's going to be ok this year, but I doubt they sign him to a second contract. It would be ideal to have his replacement on the roster either for 2025 or 2026.
 
Vision-contact balance > speed as to running backs. Some strong words about laughable because basically you can clown just about every mock drafter, PFF, ex-RBs, there is a long list of clowns on this one, then.

Brian Robinson doesn't suck because he's not fast. He sucks IMO because he has poor vision.

Guys like Bucky Irving or Kyren Johnson can't come close to running like fast dudes like Isaac Gurendeno but are much better backs.

Skattebo with the 2nd best vertical in this running back group clearly has some athleticism so its not like he's some complete stiff. I assume will see the rest of it on the 27th.

As far as not doing it against good teams, how about against the best run stuffing team in college who stacked the box?

That's the other thing about him, he was the main guy, he was the featured offensive players that defenses had to stop. In BOTH the passing game and running game. IMO he's one of the the highest floor RBs in this group.
To the bolded . . . Brian Robinson doesn't have great vision, but a BIG reason he sucks is he is way to damn slow out there. Even when he sees the hole, there is someone in it by the time he gets there. AND, he is 2 tenths of a second faster than Scattebo. I'm from AZ and a BIG ASU/Scattebo fan!! I feel bad for the guy becasue that one trait will keep him from being GREAT! He will be pretty good, just not great!
 
I think he's another whiff on my part and ranked him too low - most sites see him as a solid Day 2 pick. I don't see him as a bellcow type but he is one of the most physical runner's in the class without a doubt and he may very well be the most physical after Hampton. His lack of top end speed might be an issue but I would not be surprised if he carved out a successful role in the league.

Most physical after Hampton? So more physical than Skattebo? How do you define though physical? Maybe you mean as a pass blocker? If so, he's prettty good on that front.

if I defined it as being decisive when hitting the hole. I think that's his super power.

I've watched a lot of Jordan James. I think his physicality is decent especially his stiff arm. However, his in broken tackle rate is average, nothing special. He has one of the lowest yards after contact rates in this group and it shows when watching him, once he breaks a tackle or two you know he's not finding daylight, someone is going to stop him.

While not as big as a Brian Robinson, he strikes me as who Robinson's defenders say Robinson is which is a consistent singles hitter. Robinson IMO isn't a consistent singles hitter. James while rarely hitting a double, almost never a triple -- hits the hole with such acceleration that he's remarkably good and consistent at getting singles. Great singles hitter IMO -- but meh at going beyond that.

It's interesting to me that they've met with him and Marks. I like Marks a bit more than James because I think Marks has better hands and a little more explosion. But neither dude has good yards after contact numbers and neither are great athletes which sort of go hand in hand with that.

It feels like they are OK with singles hitters as long as they are consistent move the chain singles hitters -- and I can see both of these guys being that. This is something that in theory Brian Robinson is supposed to be good at it but IMO he isn't.
 
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Brian Robinson I mostly label as inconsistent as opposed to suck or I say he's mediocre-jag. I use the word suck on occasion about him when referencing that we shouldn't be down on power backs just because Robinson is a power back. So that's more of an emotional point from me. It's not the genre but the back.

But agree he doesn't suck. Brian is so so IMO. And the so so is alarming to me considering a running QB usually brings out career numbers out of RBs -- not another mediocre season. For all of these RBs, being in the backfield with arguably the 2nd best running QB in the league, they should be set up for the kill.
 
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I don’t want to get too far off-topic or derail this draft thread so I’m not going to. Jayden’s effectiveness between the tackles paled in comparison to when the RPO was utilized or when he created on the move. That is why I believe that the o-line has been a defined point of emphasis this offseason.

Back on topic-

That said…I am 100% in agreement that adding a modern weapon in the backfield should be a top priority.
 
To the bolded . . . Brian Robinson doesn't have great vision, but a BIG reason he sucks is he is way to damn slow out there. Even when he sees the hole, there is someone in it by the time he gets there. AND, he is 2 tenths of a second faster than Scattebo. I'm from AZ and a BIG ASU/Scattebo fan!! I feel bad for the guy becasue that one trait will keep him from being GREAT! He will be pretty good, just not great!

Brian Robinson ran faster than Bucky Irving. He ran much faster than Kyren Williams. Both backs are much better than him. For a dude Brian's size running a 4.53 is great. He's faster than Derrick Henry who is a monster.

I think on the thread we are too hung up on speed. I love Treveyon Henderson as much as anyone and he's explosive. And he's more explosive than a bunch of RBs who are faster than him in this class.

Vision-contact balance, stop and go ability, lateral-agily movement among other things are all part of the soup for great running backs.

The issue with power backs aren't purely hey they aren't fast. Look if you can break tackles, have good vision, and great contact balance like Skattebo that's enough to be a really good back. There is a value to wearing defenses down with a dude like that -- and heck singles and doubles aplenty can power an offense.

Robinson on all of those counts is just OK at best. IMO, Robinson is at his best when he adapts that Skattebo style where he won't be denied and the O line really gives him a big hole to plow through and build momentum with his runs. But that dynamic seems to come and go with him. And a three year sample is enough for me -- especially coming off this season where he had the perfect storm in his favor to go beyond his typical mediocre season.

A good example is the Jordan James conversation I just had. He's not per se a power back but he's a singles hitter. But the seas don't have to part for him in a big way for him to get those singles. He's decisive, one cut and go, he accelerates fasts and can get skinny in the hole.
 
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Not sure what there is to concur on. Where did I question Henderson's pass protect? Saying Hampton is really good at it didn't mean by extension that Henderson is not.

Hampton is a #1 back. Plan and simple. He can be your featured back. I love Henderson. I haven't criticized him once on this thread. Heck am probably one of the only ones here who would be delighted if they took him at 29. But Henderson is clearly a back by committee guy. I am not on an island on this. Hampton is a stud #1 back -- no committee needed.
I too took (part of) your statement as Hampton is clearly better than Henderson in pass protection, which could be read as Henderson isn’t that good at it. Stating the obvious, but written format can be hard sometimes on this front, misunderstandings happen - though I think everyone would agree you’re an excellent communicator. 🤷‍♂️
 
Interesting. I haven't. Of the draft shows I've listened to the gushing won't stop about him to the point that its become borderline nauseating and its in vogue for them to repeat they've heard that some FOs have him rated higher than Jeanty.

It's been a good 6 weeks since I've watched him. I didn't see (lol no pun intended) vision issues. I think vision though is a subjective guage -- its basically from our vantage standpoint is the player seeing the holes. And I didn't see any red flags on that front. I can rewatch but i gather I'd be wasting my time - talk about risers in this process, judging by mocks and just scuttlebutt from insider types he might go in the top 15. Sometimes that stuff can be wrong but I've heard too much from too many different sources to think there is no fire to the smoke. I need to hear something closer to the draft to my liking to make me think I am not wasting my time.

I think Henderson is the more interesting dude as for buzz because you got some guys like McShay (who also love Hampton) who think Henderson can go as high as the late first. And some think he can fall to the late 2nd.
As I’ve said before, I haven’t watched much tape, however, I’d be really surprised if Henderson went late 2nd. With that said, I suppose class depth at RB plus quality at other spots could push him down.
I don’t want to get too far off-topic or derail this draft thread so I’m not going to. Jayden’s effectiveness between the tackles paled in comparison to when the RPO was utilized or when he created on the move. That is why I believe that the o-line has been a defined point of emphasis this offseason.

Back on topic-

That said…I am 100% in agreement that adding a modern weapon in the backfield should be a top priority.
I have no issue going with a back early, but man, I really hope we add a high quality olineman. Tunsil’s a huge add for pass pro obviously, but with Cosmi out, I actually think there’s a legit chance we take a step back in run blocking… and our run blocking was already problematic last season (shoutout to Utah for reaffirming my impression).
 
skinsinparadise I like your description of Brian Robinson as "inconsistent."

But I think what makes him inconsistent is there has to be a hole right in front of him. He can't beat guys to the outside, he can't really turn the corner. If there is a hole in the middle, he can hit it and usually get through it.

But when he has to search for a hole or get to one on the outside, he's generally a tick late and gets stopped. I don't think that's necessarily just speed. I think he's slow to figure out where he wants to go, doesn't have great vision or great feel. If the play works as designed, he's good. If it doesn't, he's not. Which leads to him being inconsistent. When Kliff was able to scheme a hole open right in the middle of the line, he did fine. Defenses adjusted and he just never figured it out.

However, he will have some nice runs and nice games if they can scheme something open in the middle.

Chris I agree, he doesn't suck. He's far from suck. But he's also not an ideal feature back.

What I'd like to see is us draft a back who can hit the holes in the middle of the offense, but also has the vision/speed/feel to get to the outside when they need to. That will lead to more consistency.

I know this straddles the topic of the draft, but I REALLY want to see them find a guy who can do both in the draft. The way I look at it is:

- If they pick a guy earlier than the 4th round, they need a starter who has good speed, vision, etc. and can run inside and outside
- If they pick a guy later in the draft, I want a burner. Somebody who can be rotational but has the ability to break off chunk plays.

Ideally they could find both. But I doubt we draft 2 RBs with 5 picks. Now, if they can figure out how to go from 5 picks to 7 picks by trading down, then I'd say they should double-dip and get more than one RB.

Again, we have no RBs on the roster in 2026. And you could argue none of the 2024 RBs SHOULD be on the roster in 2026. So we have to do something.
 
skinsinparadise I like your description of Brian Robinson as "inconsistent."

But I think what makes him inconsistent is there has to be a hole right in front of him. He can't beat guys to the outside, he can't really turn the corner. If there is a hole in the middle, he can hit it and usually get through it.

But when he has to search for a hole or get to one on the outside, he's generally a tick late and gets stopped. I don't think that's necessarily just speed. I think he's slow to figure out where he wants to go, doesn't have great vision or great feel. If the play works as designed, he's good. If it doesn't, he's not. Which leads to him being inconsistent. When Kliff was able to scheme a hole open right in the middle of the line, he did fine. Defenses adjusted and he just never figured it out.

However, he will have some nice runs and nice games if they can scheme something open in the middle.

Chris I agree, he doesn't suck. He's far from suck. But he's also not an ideal feature back.

What I'd like to see is us draft a back who can hit the holes in the middle of the offense, but also has the vision/speed/feel to get to the outside when they need to. That will lead to more consistency.

I know this straddles the topic of the draft, but I REALLY want to see them find a guy who can do both in the draft. The way I look at it is:

- If they pick a guy earlier than the 4th round, they need a starter who has good speed, vision, etc. and can run inside and outside
- If they pick a guy later in the draft, I want a burner. Somebody who can be rotational but has the ability to break off chunk plays.

Ideally they could find both. But I doubt we draft 2 RBs with 5 picks. Now, if they can figure out how to go from 5 picks to 7 picks by trading down, then I'd say they should double-dip and get more than one RB.

Again, we have no RBs on the roster in 2026. And you could argue none of the 2024 RBs SHOULD be on the roster in 2026. So we have to do something.

Agree. Oddly for me the rewatches of Jordan James in this draft has helped crystalize for me my issues with Robinson. So many mock drafters love James. I like him but didn't love him so kept watching and thinking aboout it. Part of my interest is I know this team did a formal meeting with James at the combine.

So when watching James he has the one deal breaker as part of his game that many fans have complained about Robinson which is he's not going to take it to the house. Not even close with him. He will break a tackle or two but then the next guy gets him. He's almost no threat to make a big play on a run. OK so what makes him different than Robinson?

IMO what makes him different is he's remarkably consistent with the singles. The seas don't have to part perfectly for him. He can get skinny in the hole, if the hole isn't big. He's good at finding creases. He also while isn't fast, he's decisive and accelerates fast. And he has good contact balance. So he's remarkably consistent from game to game or at least he was from the games I watched.

Got no doubt Brian Robinson, like any back, would play better with better O line play. Also if your O line is just destroying the D line it can make almost any runner look great -- see one game wonder Timmy Smith. So if our O line is opening some monster holes, I think Robinson would be good. Don't get me wrong though Robinson IMO does have a super power. That is, IMO is when he hits the hole and builds momentum, he's a handful to bring down. My issue with him is he's not a dude who either sees or works creatively through a crease. If you run a duo and part the seas, and the daylight is clear in front of him, he can take advantage.

But in short, I want a back who can make something out of nothing at times. Dudes like Robinson to me are more physical specimen than creative runners. Like I said before if you listen to Clinton Portis or Aldred Morris explain how they go about their business, they are detailed. If Robinson is that detailed he keeps it to himself in interviews -- so based on that and the style he plays, Robinson to me is more of a big dude who is fast for his size but isn't a creative or multi-faceted runner. And I suspect not the most thoughtful runner either.

Skattebo for example. Also a "power" runner. Doesn't need big creases. Can break tackles without needing a head of steam build up to do it. Has good contact balance where he can bounce off tackles. And looks like he sees the field well.

Like everyone else, I prefer speed. And I am in the Henderson fan club here among others. And I do like others in that mode ala Sampson, Harvey, Tuten. But I am not turned off to power runners based on Robinson. Robinson IMO is an above average athlete for his size but is an average runner at best. And I dont disagree with the premise that give Robinson really good blocking and you'll see a better version. I agree with that. But the same point applies to everyone and I'd like to have some runners that can create and aren't purely dependant on the O line.
 
Why are some people seemingly using 40 times and top end speed to talk about aspects of the RB position that have to do with explosion? A guy being quick and explosive and being able to hit holes hard has little to do with how fast he can run a 40 yard dash. It has more to do with lateral agility as well as things like vertical or broad jump, 10 yard splits, etc.
 
Why are some people seemingly using 40 times and top end speed to talk about aspects of the RB position that have to do with explosion? A guy being quick and explosive and being able to hit holes hard has little to do with how fast he can run a 40 yard dash. It has more to do with lateral agility as well as things like vertical or broad jump, 10 yard splits, etc.

Yeah, article below quoting RB coaches including our own. Interesting Lynn talking about that. it's hard to quantify instincts but I get the point. Playing high school sports in my own amateur way of course, at times I just go on automatic pilot and let my skills take over for better or worse.

The getting yards point in that article - stresses "consistency" and getting yards "beyond what the line created." This is my beef with Robinson. It's not like he never does it. But he doesn't do it enough. I think as an athlete Robinson is more than fine. I think if anything that's his niche. He's a big dude and runs plenty fast for his size. But I think he's more of a dude that depends on the O line too much for my liking versus a dude who creates. And as an athlete he lacks explosion-lateral quickness. You can lack speed ala Bucky Irving yet have plenty of lateral quickness.

Instincts​

Lynn is quick to differentiate between ballcarrier vision—understanding what is going on in front of the runner—and “instinct,” which is knowing where to go.

“Coaches coach the vision,” Lynn says. “The vision’s gonna be good, but once you get the vision right, their instincts kick in. You don’t coach that. Some guys just have that.”

One of the first players Lynn brought up is Le’Veon Bell. Bell is often described as the most patient back in the league, and with good reason. In a league where Super Bowls are won in two seconds or less, Bell can wait an eternity before committing to a lane:

...Burst​

If instinct is sensing the right place to go, burst—or acceleration, explosion, whatever you want to call it—is the ability to get there. For all of the emphasis on 40-yard dash times, the true measure of speed for NFL running backs is how quickly they can reach an opening before it closes.

”The Chiefs backfield—they’ve got a lot of burst. [Kareem] Hunt has a good burst to him,” says Chargers running back Austin Ekeler. “He’s a bigger back but he still has got some speed, and [Tyreek] Hill has got a lot of burst in him.”


Hunt gets to the hole quickly for a 5-foot-11 back that weighs 216 pounds:

...Elusiveness​

Juke, spin, stiff-arm, stutter step, truck, hurdle—there are a lot of ways to evade tackles, and every back needs to make defenders miss. While running backs are expected to win one-on-one matchups in the open field, being elusive in traffic is key.

“I’ve had guys run the inside-zone course, the aiming point where they’re headed may be clogged, and they would physically run into the back of the linemen and kind of bounce to that spot,” Peete says. “A good, more agile, athletic back would naturally slide, as you’d say ‘cut’ to that position and get to that hole without bouncing or touching anyone.”

Look no further than Hunt.

Peete also points to New Orleans’s Alvin Kamara as a back whose body control and balance allow him to shed and shirk defenders in the open field.

“[Some players] ... can move the pile, accelerate and push things for 3 or 4 yards, or if they get hit, always move for a yard ahead,” Peete says. “Then there’s guys that have unbelievable balance, and they get hit and don’t necessarily fall down, kind of stumble for another 2 or 3.”

...“Get Yards”​

When asked about the traits that make a great running back, one immediately rises above the rest in Peete’s mind.


“The most important thing—this is what I’ve been told by many guys over the years—is when you turn on the film, and you watch a guy run, does he gain yards?” Peete says. I started laughing, but he was dead serious.

“You laugh, but that’s the first thing I do when I start studying a college back,” he continues. “I don’t watch a highlight tape. I watch the game and I want to see: Does he gain yards as they hand him the ball?”

It’s a hilariously simple but excellent point. Consistently getting chunks of yardage, especially beyond what the line created, is what it’s all about. The closest statistic for this concept is Football Outsiders’ success rate, which attempts to measure a running back’s consistency in gaining yards while factoring in the down and distance (for example, 2 yards on third-and-2 is a successful run, while 2 yards on first-and-10 isn’t.)

 
skinsinparadise I like your description of Brian Robinson as "inconsistent."

But I think what makes him inconsistent is there has to be a hole right in front of him. He can't beat guys to the outside, he can't really turn the corner. If there is a hole in the middle, he can hit it and usually get through it.

Creases open up so quickly, on left, on the right, bam, bam fast. Can your instincts-vision take over where you react to all of it as it comes.

If we are talking pure power and raw speed, Robinson is good. Not special. But above average.

But when it comes to vision, instincts, contact balance, lateral quickness, stop and go -- I think he's below average.

To mistertim's point, speed is often not the operative point. Quick feet-agility is often more important. On a typical run, you are at least doing some darting where you are going east-west. It's like playing tag back in elementary school if you ever played it, you have to elude the person, east, west, trying to catch you versus just run by them.

The other thing is how quickly do you see the hole. Jordan James is smaller and actually not as fast as Robinson. So hey wouldn't James be a downgrade over Robinson? But the difference is IMO, James sees it quickly, accelerates fast and by the time the defender closes down on him, he's gotten his 4-5 yards. i don't think Robinson is especially good at this. He's not a disaster at it. But at best just average IMO.

On an aside this is a great conversation, I am now inspired to rewatch some backs because my brain is churning about this spot.
 
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What we need more than anything with our premium picks are bonafide STAR players. It’s what we’ve utterly lacked (until Daniels), other than probably McLaurin.

And you know what? Sometimes that player is a RB. A position where a RB can instantly be a top talent in the league at their position and it’s not even an anomaly.

We cannot afford to turn our noses up at obvious stud players if they land in our laps…yes, even if it means using a premium asset on a RB. We need game changers, now.
 
I don’t want to get too far off-topic or derail this draft thread so I’m not going to. Jayden’s effectiveness between the tackles paled in comparison to when the RPO was utilized or when he created on the move. That is why I believe that the o-line has been a defined point of emphasis this offseason.

Back on topic-

That said…I am 100% in agreement that adding a modern weapon in the backfield should be a top priority.
Well that is one of the two reasons for the OL being a big emphasis. The other is just the more obvious, to protect our #1 asset which should have been our #1 point of emphasis this off-season.

The second priority for the offense, getting hire quality weapons. We do still have a ways to go here with a RB upgrade required for sure!!!

I hope they are not done with the OL. I'd be looking at a RT/G or a G/C. There are a bunch of good players that fit the RT/G spot. There are few players in this draft with C experience that are good and can play G.
 
What we need more than anything with our premium picks are bonafide STAR players. It’s what we’ve utterly lacked (until Daniels), other than probably McLaurin.

And you know what? Sometimes that player is a RB. A position where a RB can instantly be a top talent in the league at their position and it’s not even an anomaly.

We cannot afford to turn our noses up at obvious stud players if they land in our laps…yes, even if it means using a premium asset on a RB. We need game changers, now.
To add to this, let’s say the #2 RB on their board is there at 29, and he has a higher grade than whatever edge defender or tackle is available, unless you have a smoking hot deal to trade downs you take the best player available.

I do think position value factors into that, so you’re not drafting the best center at #1 overall even if he’s projected to be the next Jason Kelce. But if you’re in a position to draft a player who’s significantly higher rated on your board at a 29 than one at a more premium position, you’ve got to just do it.

I also think it fills a need, which is useful.

I personally think our biggest need going into this draft is an offensive weapon. Either WR or RB. I get the need at edge, the desire for another OL, help at CB.

But the biggest hole on the roster is another weapon to stretch the field and be a scoring threat every time they touch the ball. We don’t have that on the roster except for Daniels.

It would be a force multiplier if it was a RB. Imagine having to defend both Daniels and an explosive RB.

Defenses would have to commit to that which pulls coverage away from the outside receivers.

I also think with Tunsil and other OL swaps and additions, that group can be fine. We need another edge. And we’ll get one. We need another CB for depth and we’ll get one.

But the biggest hole is weapon and I prefer to go RB than WR if possible.
 

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