~***Breaking***~ - Sam Howell traded to Seattle

A good friend whose a Seahawks nut is "loving" this trade on their part as they start the new era without Carroll. I don't blame him, I'm not a fan of this on our end. I'd love to see what Howell could do with a remotely competent offensive line and offensive scheme before we cut bait. I'd much rather have traded down than take a QB number 2, then again maybe we trade down and take a QB later who knows.
 
Here’s how I’m looking at it.. if we can’t trust this Front Office’s assessment of Sam Howell, we can’t trust their assessment of the QBs available to draft. We have to believe they know what they are doing or we’ll be engaged in the same QB pursuit in coming seasons.
 
Boone said:
Here’s how I’m looking at it.. if we can’t trust this Front Office’s assessment of Sam Howell, we can’t trust their assessment of the QBs available to draft. We have to believe they know what they are doing or we’ll be engaged in the same QB pursuit in coming seasons.
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My thoughts are more along the lines of great "IF" we land our QB we still have a lot to build up around them to contend and hopefully before a QB big payday hits. We've got some issues I would've worked to address first. Also, until Peters first Washington draft, we don't have a damn clue whether he can scout talent or not. Lynch was the final say in San Fran, not that I'm disappointed in the hiring of Peters but it's all purely conjecture that he's "knows what he's doing" and is going to draft us into glory.
 
Boone said:
Here’s how I’m looking at it.. if we can’t trust this Front Office’s assessment of Sam Howell, we can’t trust their assessment of the QBs available to draft. We have to believe they know what they are doing or we’ll be engaged in the same QB pursuit in coming seasons.
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which is the biggest point.

We have to try and get past our scar tissue and realize the current group is not operating under the same umbrella the previous one did. For all intents and purposes, this is an expansion team
 
As long as we're trading perspectives, I think the front office determined that they wanted to take advantage of the #2 pick to grab a possibly elite franchise QB. Remember, before this season pros were salivating about how this draft had the best potential QBs since Luck and Burrow. Given that they knew they were going to take a QB they decided they didn't want to start off their era under the shadow of controversy. If Howell remained, any misstep would lead to a chorus of people wanting Howell to get a second shot... a fair shot. So, they decided to do Sam a solid and trade him early and trade a possible starting QB for pennies on the dollar.

Obviously, I'm not a fan over the trade even after a morning to think about it, but it doesn't really change my view of the offseason so far which has been really positive. Every GM makes calculated moves and even though I wanted Sam to get a shot to prove himself with us I respect the idea that if you have the #2 pick and don't have a lock on your franchise QB you have to take your swing. So, I don't hate them for making the trade. I just hate the trade.
 
SkinsOrlando said:
My thoughts are more along the lines of great "IF" we land our QB we still have a lot to build up around them to contend and hopefully before a QB big payday hits. We've got some issues I would've worked to address first. Also, until Peters first Washington draft, we don't have a damn clue whether he can scout talent or not. Lynch was the final say in San Fran, not that I'm disappointed in the hiring of Peters but it's all purely conjecture that he's "knows what he's doing" and is going to draft us into glory.
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Trust but verify. 😉
 
SkinsOrlando said:
My thoughts are more along the lines of great "IF" we land our QB we still have a lot to build up around them to contend and hopefully before a QB big payday hits. We've got some issues I would've worked to address first. Also, until Peters first Washington draft, we don't have a damn clue whether he can scout talent or not. Lynch was the final say in San Fran, not that I'm disappointed in the hiring of Peters but it's all purely conjecture that he's "knows what he's doing" and is going to draft us into glory.
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You’re not wrong, although almost everything we’ve heard coming out of San Fran has been that Lynch was largely a figurehead and that it was Peters and his staff doing the heavy lifting. There is the Lance draft and whose brainchild that was question, but overall San Fran excelled in the draft and Peters has mostly gotten credit for that. It’s not an ‘EB situation’…
 
Boone said:
You’re not wrong, although almost everything we’ve heard coming out of San Fran has been that Lynch was largely a figurehead and that it was Peters and his staff doing the heavy lifting. There is the Lance draft and whose brainchild that was question, but overall San Fran excelled in the draft and Peters has mostly gotten credit for that. It’s not an ‘EB situation’…
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We will both find out soon enough, one way or the other, hopefully leaning way in your direction of thought
 
I really liked Sam Howell, more as a person than as an answer to our now age-old desire at the QB position.

That said…no fanbase loves a plucky, moxie-filled, smallish, tough as nails QB more than this one does.

Nobody.
 
Yeah SO, well we’ve bought in before and it hasn’t actually paid off. So we will see…
 
Exactly my point. There are fans who get attached to current roster players even if that team in aggregate is not successful and feel a sense of loss when player X or Y is released or traded.

In answer to the question about Peters making personnel decisions, remember that Bobby Beathard came to Washington in 1978 but was not the Dolphins GM during his time in Miami. Joe Robbie and then Don Shula himself took on that title and made the final decisions on personnel. Likewise he was a scout and front office mid-level with the Chiefs.

He was known as a super scout and talent evaluator but was not in charge.

Peters has a similar history. He was not the GM in NE, Denver or SF but he was promoted from the nuts and bolts jobs in personnel to make him ready for this opportunity.

Will he be successful? I think so, but I don't know.

Did Beathard repeat his success here in DC in San Diego?

How did Charley Casserly do in Houston?

Even seasoned GMs that move to another team don't necessarily bring magic dust with them.

At the same time we can't handicap Peters we also can't blame him for the Trey Lance acquisition in SF, which some seem to hold up as an example of how he has screwed up in the past at quarterback. Working under John Lynch and obviously with the great input of coach Kyle Shanahan, the final decision was not his to make.
 
With this team very few players on the roster should have their job protected. They have won nothing. However I think the trade was not good for washington. Moving up one time with a swap of picks was great but not actually picking up a 5th or 6th for Howell was bad.
 
I suppose the Washington front office considered that the teams that want or need quarterback depth may offer less and less as the draft gets closer and cheaper alternatives come more clearly into focus and they decided to pull the plug now on the trade.

I might have held onto Sam until the summer if I was going to deal him and see if there was an injury around the league but that might have lead to distractions over having him on the team alongside a #2 draft choice with media inquiries about his status, etc.

It's definitely better for Sam to move on now and have a full offseason in Seattle.

Geno Smith is essentially on a one year deal and didn't play as well in 2023 as he did the previous year.
 
First - it is possible to both trust this front office and hate this trade. I'm living proof.

Second - it is also possible to trust this front and know/accept that there will be misses. Picking talent in the NFL is a lot like batting in MLB. There is no chance of perfection. The best GMs settle for a solid on-base percentage and as long as they are hitting more than the other GMs in the league, they are good with that.

Third - while I hate this particular trade for a lot of reasons, I'm on board with every single other move this team has made since the ref blew the final whistle at FedEx on January 7th. The GM, the front office folks hired, the coaches (both new and held over), the players released, and all the Free Agents brought in. Every. Single. Move.

Fourth - draft position matters and that pedigree follows every player throughout their career. Sam was a 5th-round pick and will always be a 5th-round pick. Did I get attached to him? Fuck yeah. He is my kinda player. Humble, teachable, hardworking, tough, personable, uncomplaining, and completely lacking in flashiness. However, I reminded myself this morning about my words on this very forum 2 years ago where I cautioned about excitement over a 5th-rounder. And yeah, the irony over me being one of Howell's biggest champions now isn't lost on me. But hey, a funny thing happened on the way to The Forum...

Fifth and last - what has happened with Sam isn't fair in any way, shape, or form. No doubt Sam feels that more keenly than anyone. However, I'm guessing Sam would be the first to say that life isn't fair sometimes and it is necessary to get on with it. He just seems like that kind of guy to me. Ron and EB are already paying for their mistakes with Sam. Sadly, Sam is paying for their mistakes too but I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to get more than a small chance at taking over the starting job in Seattle this year. I believe he will be focused on that opportunity and not his past in Washington.
 
Agree. If you are a middle to late round draft pick or UDFA like a Kurt Warner you have to get on the field in the right circumstances and then take off almost immediately to retain the starting job at a high profile position like quarterback.

Remember how long it took Washington to recognize that #4 pick Kirk Cousins was actually a much better football player than #2 overall RGIII?

The bias is institutional within the NFL.

Can you believe that based upon what we have seen that ANYONE would be interested in trading for or signing Zack Wilson?

But because he was a #2 pick he remains on the radar.
 
Neophyte said:
First - it is possible to both trust this front office and hate this trade. I'm living proof.

Second - it is also possible to trust this front and know/accept that there will be misses. Picking talent in the NFL is a lot like batting in MLB. There is no chance of perfection. The best GMs settle for a solid on-base percentage and as long as they are hitting more than the other GMs in the league, they are good with that.

Third - while I hate this particular trade for a lot of reasons, I'm on board with every single other move this team has made since the ref blew the final whistle at FedEx on January 7th. The GM, the front office folks hired, the coaches (both new and held over), the players released, and all the Free Agents brought in. Every. Single. Move.

Fourth - draft position matters and that pedigree follows every player throughout their career. Sam was a 5th-round pick and will always be a 5th-round pick. Did I get attached to him? Fuck yeah. He is my kinda player. Humble, teachable, hardworking, tough, personable, uncomplaining, and completely lacking in flashiness. However, I reminded myself this morning about my words on this very forum 2 years ago where I cautioned about excitement over a 5th-rounder. And yeah, the irony over me being one of Howell's biggest champions now isn't lost on me. But hey, a funny thing happened on the way to The Forum...

Fifth and last - what has happened with Sam isn't fair in any way, shape, or form. No doubt Sam feels that more keenly than anyone. However, I'm guessing Sam would be the first to say that life isn't fair sometimes and it is necessary to get on with it. He just seems like that kind of guy to me. Ron and EB are already paying for their mistakes with Sam. Sadly, Sam is paying for their mistakes too but I have a sneaking suspicion that he is going to get more than a small chance at taking over the starting job in Seattle this year. I believe he will be focused on that opportunity and not his past in Washington.
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All of this is true, but I would just add that most NFL players who have a good head on their shoulders generally understand a lot of the chance that plays into where players go and the amount of success they see (or lack thereof). There are a lot of pieces that have to fall in place. For Sam, he got a shot, and it was given by this organization at the time it was given. That's just how it happened, and he got a shot with a certain OC at that same time, with certain personnel. The good part for him is he DID get that shot, and it looks like he may get another one. That doesn't always happen. So, he certainly shouldn't be bitter.

On the WAS fans side of this, I don't see the big need for a lot of complaining. Nothing is guaranteed about Sam. There isn't any absolute in his resume from college to his career here, by any stretch, and that is certainly visible in how the trade went down as well as what we all saw. As I suspected, Schneider's quote suggested that they were already high on him in the draft. You see, I think that's really key; if a staff was high on Sam in the draft, they would look at the last year as an opportunity to buy low on a guy who "possibly" or even "probably" (depending on their viewpoint) got burned by a bad situation. I suspect Peters just didn't have that same high opinion of Sam when he was drafter and nothing he saw in the last year suggested anything otherwise. I would hope this isn't about "making your stamp" or something else, it should be methodical, and the end result was it wasn't worth the risk. Even at a low salary, that spot in 52 is sometimes very valuable to a team to be careful about throwing away. When you already decided, we need a veteran to help our young guy along, and then you decided Sam is probably not the young guy for us for X/Y/Z reasons, the writing starts to get on the wall.

This is one of those decisions where it's 50/50; it could really work out for SEA, and it may look rather pedestrian. I also like Sam a lot, and I wish we kept him, but given that this staff did their evals of him already, I can see them feeling this isn't the guy for them. They may be wrong, they may be right, but I don't think we should get worked up over one right or wrong decision either way, especially when it appears to be this uncertain.
 
Here's a brief history of QB 's taken at #2 since 1970, Odd fact - the Washington team that plays football now with Mariota on the team has had 4 #2 picks play for them in some capacity. meaning nothing but interesting. As far as how these players turned out overall, I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

Archie Manning - 1972
Bert Jones - 1973
Rick Mirer - 1993
Ryan Leaf - 1998
Donovan McNabb - 1999
RG3- 2012
Marcus Mariota - 2015
Carson Wentz - 2016
Mitch Trubisky - 2017
Zach Wilson - 2021
C.J. Stroud - 2023
 
Are picks lucky, though?

I didn't do a deep dive but I wonder how many of the #199 overall picks made it in the NFL over that time?

Of course Tom Brady was selected with that pick in 2000. :cool:
 
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