Official Game Thread - Week 8 - Commanders @ Colts

[Primus Porcus]

What you're not understanding is that one reason Detroit, Philly, and Dallas scored so many points is because of the constant 3 and outs by Wentz. It all works together. The defense is constantly on the field, therefore there is a greater chance of the defense giving up more big plays.

Nobody outside of you believes that Washington beats the Packers or Colts with Wentz as QB. It's that simple. In fact, the Packers game would have been at least a 10 point loss if Wentz was the QB. Not only would Wentz have been sacked at least 5 times, but he probably would have fumbled once or twice on top of that.

Eagles fans and Colts fans could have told you that way before we wasted $28 million on that train wreck of a QB. Wentz is so bad, I don't think he will still be in the NFL next year.

You have this obsession with blaming Turner's play-calling for everything, but most of the problem is Wentz.

I actually just said that I wasn't sure we won with Wentz either, just a couple posts ago. I lost confidence in the offense with Wentz also. I don't ONLY blame Turner, your last go round here I was also critical of Wentz on multiple occasions... in fact I think I graded him lower than you did in the Wentz o meter thread. Wentz has been far from perfect, but his imperfections are not the only reason this offense has been bad.. same with Taylor, but Taylor's abilities are ALSO held back by this offense.

Taylor's shortcomings have their own restrictions, but he also has abilities that we should be using to our advantage, and were not. The offense is still producing similar results because little has changed despite changing the most important position in sports. It's averaging the same number of points as it has the last 3 years... and unless something changes schematically, it likely continues to produce the same level of results, below average.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

I actually just said that I wasn't sure we won't with Wentz either, just a couple posts ago. I lost confidence in the offense with Wentz also. I don't ONLY blame Turner, your last go round here I was also critical of Wentz on multiple occasions... in fact I think I graded him lower than you did in the Wentz o meter thread. Wentz has been far from perfect, but his imperfections are not the only reason this offense has been bad.. same with Taylor, but Taylor's abilities are ALSO held back by this offense.

Taylor's shortcomings have their own restrictions, but he also has abilities that we should be using to our advantage, and were not. The offense is still producing similar results because little has changed despite changing the most important position in sports. It's averaging the same number of points as it has the last 3 years... and unless something changes schematically, it likely continues to produce the same level of results, below average.

I think a lot of Heinicke's struggles are mostly due to lack of playing time. He was obviously rusty and very nervous at the beginning of the Packers game. He said it himself yesterday -- the more reps he gets on the field, the more comfortable he becomes and the fewer mistakes that he makes. That is true for virtually all inexperienced QBs. It's easy to forget that he has only started about 20 games during his career, because he has actually been pretty good most of the time.

I still don't think we've seen Heinicke's best football. We now know that Wentz is a lost cause.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

At least we know now that some things never change.

 

[DieselPwr44]

You have this obsession with blaming Turner's play-calling for everything, but most of the problem is Wentz.

You said previously that what was holding this offense back was Wentz.

Heinicke hasn't unleashed anything......except you.

 

[Boone]

The IGNORE feature is your friend. Put someone on ignore and enjoy a site free of their posts.

Interesting how there’s zero recognition that Wentz was in his first games ever with a new staff, new offense, and new players but it’s Heinicke (who played the entire previous season with all of them) who is rusty due to lack of playing time?

That makes a lot of sense 🙄

 

[Bulldog]

What we do know is that Heinicke is capable of making plays at the end of the game - and finding the right players to execute them.

No one can tell me that after perhaps the worst interception I have seen this season in the NFL by Wentz when a win against Tennessee was all but in the offing at the two yard line that we aren't better off with Taylor on the field.

Wentz has a strong arm but is no longer athletic due to successive injuries to knees and achilles and his football IQ is not on the high end of starting quarterbacks.

Anyone notice that the offense has been more able to stay competitive when we aren't taking the killer sacks over and over with Carson standing in the pocket refusing to get rid of the ball out of bounds?

You can't tell me coaches aren't telling him to throw it away when no one is open to save downs and distance but it appears that isn't in his DNA as a player.

A team really can't win with that kind of player. Yes, Taylor has thrown some picks but what we don't see from him is the number of sacks and fumbles that haunted the team with #11 on the field.

 

[Om]

Heinicke > Wentz.

Heinicke ≠ Long-term QB solution.

I do maths.

 

[Boone]

Agree Mark. And Bulldog, please don’t interpret my comments on Wentz as a belief he is the future. I’m just pointing out the inconsistency in how some want to compare he and Heinicke.

 

[MikefromOH]

Heinicke is better with his legs and it's obvious. It's why he can avoid most of the sacks. The team and fans also love him as a guy and rally around him whenever he's in.

He's not elite nor is he better than 90% of the NFL QBs. That's what the issue is here.

 

[Chris]

I giggle a bit every time T2HOF determines that what he believes is a fact.

Opinion? Sure. Notion? Ok. Theory? Maybe.

Fact? Nope.

 

[MikefromOH]

Heinicke is going to continue to grow and get better. As he gets more comfortable taking snaps and getting his internal clock going it's going to happen. He has a great duck under and ability to shake off arms in sacks.

What we really need is for our OC to stop calling 7 step drops and being so predictable. We know JD is getting the ball on 3rd down. We know Samuel is getting the jet sweep when he motions. Try faking the jet and tossing to JD or something along those lines!

 

[Neophyte]

This isn't a Wentz v Heinicke issue for me. It's an issue with the Offense in general.

ST has hit the nail on the head - doesn't matter who is under center, we are still averaging about the same number of points per game and that number isn't big enough to win most weeks in the NFL.

The 17 points we scored on Sunday would have given us a record of 7-18-4 against the rest of the NFL this week. That just isn't good enough.

Yes, we have won 3 in a row but I think if we really break that down we will see that the Defense has elevated its game over that stretch.

In the first five games, we had 1 turnover - total. In the last three, we have had 5 turnovers. Anyone who has watched this league for more than a hot second knows that is significant.

If the defense holds another team to 16 points, I expect to win. However, with this offense, regardless of which guy is under center, that isn't a given.

One last point - an L is an L and the difference between getting beat by 1 point and getting beat by 20 points only matters to how much more I drink during the game. I'm tired of moral victories. I want legit W's.

 

[MikefromOH]

I think the D being better also has to do with the O. If we get even one first down in a drive that allows them to rest and prepare for the next series.

But, when it's 3 and out drive after drive it wears on you mentally and physically.

 

[Boone]

Say what you like about the wounded duck pass at the end, this was a nice drive.

 

[MikefromOH]

Looking at that last throw...he was flat footed when he threw it. Did not step in to it at all. That could be a big reason why he has "lame duck" throws that fall shorter than we'd like.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

In my opinion, the offense isn’t better with one guy over the other, it’s just different. Outside of the first game, neither is producing enough to say the offense is winning games. The last 3 games, the defense has really stepped up and made plays. Sometimes, just getting turnovers and stops at the right time, other times it’s just getting the other offense off the field. But offensively, the results are not much different. I’ll take a win whenever and however they can get it. And there was definitely a lot of emotion with the win against the Colts. But these are ugly wins. That Bears win was probably the ugliest win since the 9-7 win to open the 2005 season, ironically against the Bears. But that’s the formula they have used to win last 2 years. Making just enough plays to win. We’ve also seen in some cases making just enough plays to lose, but that’s why I’ll take the wins no matter how they come.

One thing we can’t say after this recent stretch of games is that the team is still cursed with bad luck. They may be using up all their luck, but in the past 3 weeks we have seen bad turnovers, dropped INTs, and bad coaching decisions by the other team. For years we have watched other teams get all the breaks, bounces, calls, and just flat out luck. It’s good to see some of that come our way.

 

[Neophyte]

I think the D being better also has to do with the O. If we get even one first down in a drive that allows them to rest and prepare for the next series.

But, when it's 3 and out drive after drive it wears on you mentally and physically.

You aren't wrong, Mike. And I considered saying something about it too.

It is the one place the Offense is better. My question is why is it better?

I think it is a compound answer. Turner is calling more running plays and Taylor isn't getting sacked as much.

Running the ball more brings balance to the offense. Makes the defense think instead of just pinning their ears back and going after the QB. It also shortens the game.

Even a 3 and out isn't as bad for the defense if you run the ball twice and throw on 3rd down as it is if you throw 3 incompletions in a row because you run more time off the clock with the rushing attempts.

Not taking the sacks means we are in a better position against the chains and this allows Turner to call more running plays. I am convinced that Turner feels pressure to yardage back in chunks after a penalty or a sack.

When was the last time any of us saw him call a draw play on 2nd or 3rd and long?

 

[Primus Porcus]

 

[Theismann To HOF]

You said previously that what was holding this offense back was Wentz.

Heinicke hasn't unleashed anything......except you.

You know darn well that this offense is playing better with Heinicke as QB.

We would be 2 - 6 right now if Wentz started the last two games. Washington wouldn't have even scored 14 points against the Packers with Wentz, let alone 23 points. Wentz would have been sacked at least 5 times and killed every drive all by his lonesome.

I'm sorry that you were 100% wrong about Wentz being better than Heinicke.

 

[Primus Porcus]