Haskins - Going Forward

[Primus Porcus]

I was thinking about this last night. I don’t think any team would trade for Haskins to be a starter. It would be a team that can trade a late round pick to have him sit behind a veteran and learn. Pittsburgh comes to mind because they have nothing behind Roethlisberger. But Pittsburgh generally doesn’t make moves like this. Detroit as well as they have very little behind Stafford. But the Detroit coaching situation is a mess, so I expect the GM would wait for a new coach, assuming he survives. There may be other teams in that category, but I think it’s a small list.

And for people that think no one will want him, the cowboys signed Dalton, the Raiders Mariota, and the Saints Winston. All guys that were basically run out of their old jobs. Not to mention guys like Matt Barkley, Mike Glennon, and Blaine Gabbert still have jobs as backup QBs. There are still almost 100 QBs in the league, which makes some of them pretty bad by NFL standards.

The point is, there are a lot of coaches who will take a chance on a guy. It doesn’t mean he will succeed. It doesn’t mean he would even stick with the team. He may not want to do what it takes to go that route. But someone else will want to take a look at him and say “I can fix this”. And let’s face it, does anyone around the league trust that this franchise knows how to develop a QB or anyone for that matter?

Ahem.. Patriots... Ahem.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Tom Brady will be in the Hall of Fame. Haskins could realistically never have another NFL start.

At the time Brady made that statement he was just drafted. Nobody knew who he was.

 

[ntotoro]

At the time Brady made that statement he was just drafted. Nobody knew who he was.

How are his work ethic and study even then compared to what we've seen and been told about Haskins?

 

[DieselPwr44]

How are his work ethic and study even then compared to what we've seen and been told about Haskins?

Ron says he's not given up on Haskins.
Maybe sliding him to #3 is his way of finding out if Haskins learns a lesson and becomes better?
Just do not understand how you flat give up on a player when you as a coach have only had him for a few months and that player only has ten games under his belt.
That's more like a fan coaching than an actual professional.

The biggest takeaway here is that this club nor it's fanbase has the patience to develop any player it drafts.

 

[ntotoro]

Ron says he's not given up on Haskins.
Maybe sliding him to #3 is his way of finding out if Haskins learns a lesson and becomes better?
Just do not understand how you flat give up on a player when you as a coach have only had him for a few months and that player only has ten games under his belt.
That's more like a fan coaching than an actual professional.

The biggest takeaway here is that this club nor it's fanbase has the patience to develop any player it drafts.

A 1st-round QB shouldn't need years of development. I think that's the beef here. He has shown a grand total of zero progress and has actually regressed.

 

[Boone]

That really bothers you?
I guess when Tom Brady first met Robert Kraft after being drafted and told him “ I’m the best decision this organization has ever made”, before ever playing a down, would’ve really cheesed you off?
Nothing wrong with wanting to become a HOFer....
Is the fan base THAT far down the rabbit hole?

Well if you'll dial down the snark for a second, I'll explain I think it reflects a detachment from reality that is concerning. HOF? How about win a handful of games, or throw for 300 yards in a WIN, or have a breakout game, or hell - win the starting job (he's been using the HOF line for awhile now). Yeah - it does bother me, because he's giving stupid soundbytes when he has accomplished nothing. Griffin did the same thing - constantly.

As for Brady, first - make sure you're Tom Brady, then you can talk like him (and I guarantee you Brady never talked about being a future HOFer as a ****ing 1st and 2nd year QB). Then again, he also didn't get benched for being uncoachable and having a poor work ethic.

 

[Boone]

At the time Brady made that statement he was just drafted. Nobody knew who he was.

I'll make a deal with you. When Haskins gets inducted, I'll post an apology. Hell - if he ever starts in a playoff game I'll post an apology.

 

[Boone]

I think there have to be things that have gone on that fans and the media aren't privy to. Could be a situation where their choices are to either conveniently make those issues public in order to justify benching him and squelch criticism, or to give vague coachspeak and platitudes that keeps those issues under wraps.

Rivera's been a pro's pro by all accounts throughtout his career and has been respected everywhere he's gone. If we don't 'understand' his approach to Haskins, I have to believe it's more likely we don't have all the facts, versus him being an idiot, a dysfunctional leader, or holding a personal grudge against a young QB.

 

[DieselPwr44]

A 1st-round QB shouldn't need years of development. I think that's the beef here. He has shown a grand total of zero progress and has actually regressed.

A first round QB that only started one year in college.

I'll make a deal with you. When Haskins gets inducted, I'll post an apology. Hell - if he ever starts in a playoff game I'll post an apology.

Sigh.
A young QB states that his goal is to be a HOF Qb, even though he doesn't know how to get there. Isn't a coach's job to show him the way?

I would be more worried if a guy gets drafted and just says "Well, I'm just here , if I get to play, guess I'll go out there".

Fans can't say one day "To be a professional athlete, you have to have confidence/ego" and then when a young guy shows that say dude's a headcase/bust.
No one knows what Haskins will be. And anyone that tells you they do has an agenda.

Just read an article where Rivera says "We gave him every rep starting in July. He's been our starter for 11 games. We gave him every opportunity."
Wait...what? Just last week, you said Haskins needed reps. A true offseason,true camp. Preseason games.

You went into this season with no viable LT,LG,#2 WR or TE.
You traded for your starter from last year's Panthers squad.

If you really wanted to be fair to Haskins...if he needed all this work....why did you waste everyone's time starting him to begin with?

To me, this is Bruce Allen-esque: Ron never wanted Haskins...he just said that bull crap to get a HC job. Just like Jay told Dan he could fix RG3 to get the job.

 

[Boone]

And DieselPwr44 - you know I respect you and you're a great fan. I get the questions and the frustration - I really do. It's not that I don't have them too. But I have to trust the new regime has the best interests of the future in mind. Maybe I'll change my mind about that down the road. I hope not. But I totally get those who are struggling to understand the whole Haskins situation and some of the other conflicting statements that have been made.

 

[Boone]

A first round QB that only started one year in college.

Sigh.
A young QB states that his goal is to be a HOF Qb, even though he doesn't know how to get there. Isn't a coach's job to show him the way?

I would be more worried if a guy gets drafted and just says "Well, I'm just here , if I get to play, guess I'll go out there".

Fans can't say one day "To be a professional athlete, you have to have confidence/ego" and then when a young guy shows that say dude's a headcase/bust.
No one knows what Haskins will be. And anyone that tells you they do has an agenda.

Just read an article where Rivera says "We gave him every rep starting in July. He's been our starter for 11 games. We gave him every opportunity."
Wait...what? Just last week, you said Haskins needed reps. A true offseason,true camp. Preseason games.

You went into this season with no viable LT,LG,#2 WR or TE.
You traded for your starter from last year's Panthers squad.

If you really wanted to be fair to Haskins...if he needed all this work....why did you waste everyone's time starting him to begin with?

To me, this is Bruce Allen-esque: Ron never wanted Haskins...he just said that bull crap to get a HC job. Just like Jay told Dan he could fix RG3 to get the job.

I am hammering him on making that comment repeatedly because, from what we are hearing, the minute he was named starter he stopped putting in the extra work and time required of even experienced starters. When folks pointed out he was staring down receivers after his worst pro performance ever he felt the need to deny it. And after a brutal loss against the Ravens, he apparently was laughing and bragging about breaking 300 yds. Then he's got his agent out there criticizing his coaches on social media because they are expecting more than he's giving. I've shrugged off some of the other 'warning signs' we've seen or heard about since he was drafted. I guess I have just seen a couple too many.

I'm not drinking the Kool-aid on him anymore.

Any HC taking a job after a team drafts a QB in the 1st round is going to be expected to try and develop him. It's not a matter of choice I think I've asked you this already, but I'll ask it again. If in Ron Rivera and Scott Turner's estimation, Haskins is not an NFL starter and never will be, are you saying it's wrong for them to change directions immediately and that they should continue with him as the starter because 'they could be wrong' or because benching Haskins is 'unfair'?

I'll never agree with that. You brought in an experienced HC to right the ship. Let him make the decisions and live with it.

Just the way I see it currently, but I respect many fans are upset.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I am hammering him on making that comment repeatedly because, from what we are hearing, the minute he was named starter he stopped putting in the extra work and time required of even experienced starters. When folks pointed out he was staring down receivers after his worst pro performance ever he felt the need to deny it. And after a brutal loss against the Ravens, he apparently was laughing and bragging about breaking 300 yds. Then he's got his agent out there criticizing his coaches on social media because they are expecting more than he's giving. I've shrugged off some of the other 'warning signs' we've seen or heard about since he was drafted. I guess I have just seen a couple too many.

I'm not drinking the Kool-aid on him anymore.

Any HC taking a job after a team drafts a QB in the 1st round is going to be expected to try and develop him. It's not a matter of choice I think I've asked you this already, but I'll ask it again. If in Ron Rivera and Scott Turner's estimation, Haskins is not an NFL starter and never will be, are you saying it's wrong for them to change directions immediately and that they should continue with him as the starter because 'they could be wrong' or because benching Haskins is 'unfair'?

I'll never agree with that. You brought in an experienced HC to right the ship. Let him make the decisions and live with it.

Just the way I see it currently, but I respect many fans are upset.

I have to agree.... if they've come to that conclusion, move on. I was always loud about giving him the season, but that's just to accrue data points in one direction or the other. If he's not their guy, he's not their guy. Move on. Don't fear he goes elsewhere, don't worry that you're wrong. If they've come to the conclusion he's incapable of executing what they need done, move on. We have no problem benching Martin who's getting abused, why not have the standard across the entire roster? Do your job or don't.

 

[Win4us]

8 teams that would give Dwayne Haskins a brighter future than Washington

It is unclear what Washington is going to do with Haskins, but should they move on from him, these 9 teams are where he should hope to go.

washingtonfootballwire.usatoday.com

 

[DieselPwr44]

If in Ron Rivera and Scott Turner's estimation, Haskins is not an NFL starter and never will be, are you saying it's wrong for them to change directions immediately and that they should continue with him as the starter because 'they could be wrong' or because benching Haskins is 'unfair'?

When I look at what Scott Turner has done with the offense, why would I buy whatever it is he's trying to sell? Worst offensive showing in the league since 1970?
Why would I trust him on QB?
They're in charge. They can do as they wish.

But currently,they both look like they don't have a clue when it comes to developing a Qb.

 

[Boone]

You're not going to give them more than 4 games to assess them DP?

 

[DieselPwr44]

You're not going to give them more than 4 games to assess them DP?

They gave Haskins 4 games....why should they get any more?

You know, growing up the rule espoused by many in the league used to be that it takes a couple of years to develop a Qb.

I remember Madden talking about Troy Aikman one time,basically saying: You throw a young guy in there and let him get the heck beat out of him and after 16 games, if there's anything left....you got yourself a Qb to work with.
Gibbs used to make them sit at least a year or two and let them learn how to be pros.
Hell, Bill Parcells coached the crap out of Quincy Carter and got something out of him before moving on...and I'm sure he didn't want him to begin with.


But if Rivera trades Haskins at this point in his young career, instead of trying to develop him....it'll make me question whether or not he has the chops for a rebuild.

 

[Boone]

QB evaluation has come a long way since the 1980's bro. And HCs are no longer given 5-6 seasons to develop teams and win. It's fine to want Turner and Rivera to 'be patient', but then our jobs aren't on the line, are they?

Look - the basic premise that separates us is, you believe it's impossible for them to make a valid assessment of Haskins potential with what they've been able to see (college and year 1 game tape, and 4 games as a starter for them) and what they've experienced with him up close and personal. I think it's quite possible to pretty quickly determine is someone is the right fit for your organization.

That's the gulf between us.

Bottom line. Rivera is the HC. He didn't draft Haskins. He doesn't believe in him. If he wants to move forward in a different direction, he should. Time will tell if it was the right move or not.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

That really bothers you?
I guess when Tom Brady first met Robert Kraft after being drafted and told him “ I’m the best decision this organization has ever made”, before ever playing a down, would’ve really cheesed you off?
Nothing wrong with wanting to become a HOFer....
Is the fan base THAT far down the rabbit hole?

The difference between confidence and baseless hubris bordering on narcissism is that confidence is based on a solid basis while hubris has none. Brady was toiling in the the film room and putting in the time like a maniac to get to the top. That translated into effectiveness on the field and ulitmately, with a little help, his first Super Bowl.

Haskins was externally motivated to just be named starter but once he reached that goal, he seems to have gotten complacent and mailed it in after reaching that goal.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

They gave Haskins 4 games....why should they get any more?

You know, growing up the rule espoused by many in the league used to be that it takes a couple of years to develop a Qb.

I remember Madden talking about Troy Aikman one time,basically saying: You throw a young guy in there and let him get the heck beat out of him and after 16 games, if there's anything left....you got yourself a Qb to work with.
Gibbs used to make them sit at least a year or two and let them learn how to be pros.
Hell, Bill Parcells coached the crap out of Quincy Carter and got something out of him before moving on...and I'm sure he didn't want him to begin with.


But if Rivera trades Haskins at this point in his young career, instead of trying to develop him....it'll make me question whether or not he has the chops for a rebuild.

None of the QBs the organization has taken in since Snyder took over has been more subversive, belligerent, and rebellious as Haskins....except Jeff George.

The current CBA's contract rules for rookie QB gives incentive to both ownership and player to get him on the field as soon as possible, with maybe a year at most for the prior incumbent. The player's side wants hard data so he can get paid before the franchise tag. The owner also wants the hard data to see if their investment has any hope of providing returns long-term before the franchise tag.

Romo was quietly put down for Dak. Jordan Love is going to replace Rodgers no later than 2 years after he is drafted.

Does Arizona regret pulling the plug on Josh Rosen? Certainly not.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

None of the QBs the organization has taken in since Snyder took over has been more subversive, belligerent, and rebellious as Haskins....except Jeff George.

What is this based on? Even if the stories we hear are true, they are at worst rebellious. There has been nothing belligerent, and nothing even close to subversive. I get it, Haskins has been a huge disappointment, but let's not go overboard. His play on the field has earned him enough to criticize. There is no need to exaggerate. Stick to the facts which are still pretty bad for him.