Haskins - Going Forward

[Boone]

It’s true he’s said a lot of that to the press or in pressers already. I don’t like that either. It seems self-serving to me (‘look at me holding my players to a high standard’). I believe in the old adage, praise publicly, criticize privately. It’s not about ‘Haskins has to be able to handle pressure’ or ‘If he can’t take criticism he’s not the guy’. I just don’t see the benefit of publicly embarrassing him (quite sure he is plenty embarrassed by his performance last Sunday) or publicly threatening him.

 

[Boone]

I’d also like to hear his QB’s coach and OC own some accountability because they sure as hell didn’t have Haskins ready to play or help him out much during the game from what I saw.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I agree with both.

 

[volsmet]

Fairly standard.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

He's the slowest running QBs in the league, I'd say. Probably worse than old man Brady. For that level of lacking in athleticism, he has to basically be a Kurt Warner level of QB to have any lasting impact in this league. He, of course, isn't. He also is prone to inaccuracy.

The first step is to have him accept that he can't run at all, and I mean at all.

I say he's well on his way to being a bust. His inaccuracy costs points and his lack of athleticism costs plays.

When his 40-time is .22 seconds worse than a young 317 lb Albert Haynesworth....that gives perspective....

 

[volsmet]

DH wasn’t as putrid as his pff grade, he did some subtle things better than he had previously. It would be nice if a coach could get his mechanics in order, rarely do you see such a wide variety of deliveries out of scripted circumstances, but it’s ultimately correctable if given the time.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Going by that scenario Haskins has been sacked 39 times in 12 games, so similar in that regard. This team needs an actual o-line that can clear bodies out of his and the rb’s path & a TE to bail him out. Like DP stated, unless the staff is grading DH on a curve with EVERYTHING factored in then they’re just spinning their wheels.

Its possible they do end up benching DH and riding the year out with Allen. But if he too stinks up the joint due to a porous line and missing TE what then? Not everything can be fixed in 1 offseason I get it, but for the fan base to deny our shit line, the lack of a TE, & suspect playcalling to boot then the team is destined to rinse repeat until these areas are finally addressed. No matter who’s behind center it’s going to be mediocre to garbage.

edited the games played for Haskins, probably will look up sack rates for each to find a better comparison.

Haskins will make many O-lines worse than they are because he is so slow that he can't escape D-lineman that more athletic QBs can. Seriously, rollouts and bootlegs are basically inaccessible parts of the playbook because there is a high chance the end will sack Dewayne before he can turn the corner or he gets chased down from behind.

 

[Primus Porcus]

He's the slowest running QBs in the league, I'd say. Probably worse than old man Brady. For that level of lacking in athleticism, he has to basically be a Kurt Warner level of QB to have any lasting impact in this league. He, of course, isn't. He also is prone to inaccuracy.

The first step is to have him accept that he can't run at all, and I mean at all.

I say he's well on his way to being a bust. His inaccuracy costs points and his lack of athleticism costs plays.

When his 40-time is .22 seconds worse than a young 317 lb Albert Haynesworth....that gives perspective....

I completely disagree, last year he showed some sneaky athleticism and has not been asked to vacate the pocket hardly at all this year. On top of that, he's down weight and appears to be up muscle. If you're basing his 40 time on his college combine... Haskins ran a 5.04 and Haynesworth ran a 5.09.

40 time is also basically an irrelevant stat when you're talking about interior d-line vs QB unless you have a running QB like Jackson or Murray. Haskins still has the athleticism to move, I don't see how you're saying he's slow. Had he had his shirt tucked in last game, that sack likely results in a first down of a scramble of 10 or more.

 

[volsmet]

Haskins will make many O-lines worse than they are because he is so slow that he can't escape D-lineman that more athletic QBs can. Seriously, rollouts and bootlegs are basically inaccessible parts of the playbook because there is a high chance the end will sack Dewayne before he can turn the corner or he gets chased down from behind.

None of that is objectively true.

 

[Win4us]

Ran across this tweet about RR putting a limit on Haskins play. Seems the WTF went from rebuilding to win now pretty quick like. All the while they’re playing a good ravens defense too. Writing is on the wall, RR is just looking to bench him now.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I completely disagree, last year he showed some sneaky athleticism and has not been asked to vacate the pocket hardly at all this year. On top of that, he's down weight and appears to be up muscle. If you're basing his 40 time on his college combine... Haskins ran a 5.04 and Haynesworth ran a 5.09.

40 time is also basically an irrelevant stat when you're talking about interior d-line vs QB unless you have a running QB like Jackson or Murray. Haskins still has the athleticism to move, I don't see how you're saying he's slow. Had he had his shirt tucked in last game, that sack likely results in a first down of a scramble of 10 or more.

If he had the speed of a Rodgers or even a 4.8 40-time Mahomes, there is no jersey tug. Darnold, also with a 4.8 40-time, ripped a 46 yard TD run yesterday. Haskins, simply can't do that. Everyone can close on him and snatch him from behind.

Haynesworth was still 100 lbs heavier. Lean-and-mean Dewayne probably gained .05 seconds.

On the contrary, 40-time does matter to a point. When someone clocks a sub 5 second 40 time, that means that player's upper limit regarding speed to truly bottom-of-the-barrel. That's a huge problem when even defensive tackles come in at 4.7-4.8.

Someone like Tony Romo was a legit scramble threat. So is Aaron Rodgers still, even in his 30s.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Haskins will make many O-lines worse than they are because he is so slow that he can't escape D-lineman that more athletic QBs can. Seriously, rollouts and bootlegs are basically inaccessible parts of the playbook because there is a high chance the end will sack Dewayne before he can turn the corner or he gets chased down from behind.

Just for reference:



:57. Steps up in the pocket, scrambles left maintaining separation from 2 LBs for 9 yards, long enough to find open WR in the endzone.

1:30, play action boot right, rolls and hits WR in the endzone

2:07. Free rusher, he pumps, jukes, steps up and finds Sprinkle for a TD.

3:08. Step up, evades again, breaks pocket rollin left, throws across body for first down.

5:00. Evades a sack, steps up and breaks the pocket running for a first down, leaving D-lineman a few yards behind

6:43. Breaks contain and runs away from LBs, creating a 15 yard gain

6:52. Again breaks contain and scrambles for 9

7:03. Breaks contain left and scrambles for another first down

7:11. Again breaks contain runs for about 15

7:20. Option play, hits a hole and goes up field.

 

[Primus Porcus]

If he had the speed of a Rodgers or even a 4.8 40-time Mahomes, there is no jersey tug. Darnold, also with a 4.8 40-time, ripped a 46 yard TD run yesterday. Haskins, simply can't do that. Everyone can close on him and snatch him from behind.

Haynesworth was still 100 lbs heavier. Lean-and-mean Dewayne probably gained .05 seconds.

On the contrary, 40-time does matter to a point. When someone clocks a sub 5 second 40 time, that means that player's upper limit regarding speed to truly bottom-of-the-barrel. That's a huge problem when even defensive tackles come in at 4.7-4.8.

Someone like Tony Romo was a legit scramble threat. So is Aaron Rodgers still, even in his 30s.

But he does have that... watch the clips I highlighted in my last post. He broke multiple runs of double digits. I don't need Haskins to run a 40... i need him to have quicker feet than the D-lineman and acceleration so he can separate. .2 of a second is borderline immeasurable. Haskins was trying to get around a blocker so he wasn't running in a straight line, and Garrett happened to grab the tshirt on the way to the ground. 40 time / speed had nothing to do with that sack



BTW Darnold's 40 yard TD should have been about 15 yards but no. 24 from the Broncos turned and ran the other way like he thought he was going to slide.. so it wasn't flat line speed that scored that TD, it was terrible tackling.

 

[Win4us]

Haskins will make many O-lines worse than they are because he is so slow that he can't escape D-lineman that more athletic QBs can. Seriously, rollouts and bootlegs are basically inaccessible parts of the playbook because there is a high chance the end will sack Dewayne before he can turn the corner or he gets chased down from behind.

Or, our o-line would make any QB worse because of putrid play. They’re the ones responsible for maintaining the pocket on designated plays and so far are pretty miserable at it. DH is by no means a scramble 1st guy like some qb’s but he’s above average at minimum in that regard. Someone like Murray or Mahomes would be the only type of QB that could generate anything behind the current line.

I’ve stated it since the offseason that I believe RR wants someone else starting for the team. IMHO it’s only a matter of time (weeks) before everyone gets this wish granted.

 

[volsmet]

Or, our o-line would make any QB worse because of putrid play. They’re the ones responsible for maintaining the pocket on designated plays and so far are pretty miserable at it. DH is by no means a scramble 1st guy like some qb’s but he’s above average at minimum in that regard. Someone like Murray or Mahomes would be the only type of QB that could generate anything behind the current line.

I’ve stated it since the offseason that I believe RR wants someone else starting for the team. IMHO it’s only a matter of time (weeks) before everyone gets this wish granted.

What makes you believe that? He could have brought in Cam, he could have drafted Tua, he could have started Allen. You must really want to believe something that contradicts all rational evidence.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

None of that is objectively true.

I've seen Jason Campbell play. Haskins can't even run like him.

Or, our o-line would make any QB worse because of putrid play. They’re the ones responsible for maintaining the pocket on designated plays and so far are pretty miserable at it. DH is by no means a scramble 1st guy like some qb’s but he’s above average at minimum in that regard. Someone like Murray or Mahomes would be the only type of QB that could generate anything behind the current line.

I’ve stated it since the offseason that I believe RR wants someone else starting for the team. IMHO it’s only a matter of time (weeks) before everyone gets this wish granted.

Haskins is nowhere near the ability of a Daniel Jones in escaping pressure or having mobility. Or just put in Smith to see an actual QB with some kind of wheels. Haskins has both slow top speed and slow acceleration. The worst mix.

Some QBs don't have all-world speed but they have quick feet that can give the slip. Romo was such a QB. So is Roethlisberger.

RR is tanking for the future and Haskins is starting because of the incentives behind rookie contracts; both ownership and player are incentivized to build the body of work quickly. He might know Haskins blows but him sucking doesn't matter since this is merely an evaluation year. Haskins rocks the house, and we have a QB to keep. He stinks to high heaven, and he'll help get a high enough pick to land his successor.

 

[volsmet]

I've seen Jason Campbell play. Haskins can't even run like him.


Haskins is nowhere near the ability of a Daniel Jones in escaping pressure or having mobility. Or just put in Smith to see an actual QB with some kind of wheels. Haskins has both slow top speed and slow acceleration. The worst mix.

Some QBs don't have all-world speed but they have quick feet that can give the slip. Romo was such a QB. So is Roethlisberger.

RR is tanking for the future and Haskins is starting because of the incentives behind rookie contracts; both ownership and player are incentivized to build the body of work quickly. He might know Haskins blows but him sucking doesn't matter since this is merely an evaluation year. Haskins rocks the house, and we have a QB to keep. He stinks to high heaven, and he'll help get a high enough pick to land his successor.

You think Ron Rivera is thinking about the 2021 nfl draft when he puts his starting lineup together? Interesting. Why play TM, just let Gandy-Golden get those reps.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

But he does have that... watch the clips I highlighted in my last post. He broke multiple runs of double digits. I don't need Haskins to run a 40... i need him to have quicker feet than the D-lineman and acceleration so he can separate. .2 of a second is borderline immeasurable. Haskins was trying to get around a blocker so he wasn't running in a straight line, and Garrett happened to grab the tshirt on the way to the ground. 40 time / speed had nothing to do with that sack



BTW Darnold's 40 yard TD should have been about 15 yards but no. 24 from the Broncos turned and ran the other way like he thought he was going to slide.. so it wasn't flat line speed that scored that TD, it was terrible tackling.

Yet despite secondary players being supposedly faster, they couldn't close on him like Darrell Green did on Tony Dorsett, indicating that Darnold is football fast.
The difference between speedy and lethargic in NFL terms is only .7 seconds. 4.3 and everyones eyes' light up with regards to speed.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Yet despite secondary players being supposedly faster, they couldn't close on him like Darrell Green did on Tony Dorsett, indicating that Darnold is football fast.
The difference between speedy and lethargic in NFL terms is only .7 seconds. 4.3 and everyones eyes' light up with regards to speed.

I don't put as much of an emphasis on 4.3 speed either. There are way to many other factors that define athleticism. SOME extremes can become a major factor, but a lot of the time, 40 time is window dressing. Mahomes ran a 4.80 at the combine. Does that mean that Derek Carr who ran a 4.69 is more elusive, can evade, or can escape a pocket better than him? No. Very rarely do you ever see any NFL player running a straight line for 40 yards. Change of direction, feet quickness, acceleration... all things that are 1000 times more important than 40 speed. Nobody ran down Darnold because nobody was running a straight line like he was. No. 24 turned the wrong way and had to start from a standstill while Darnold was running full speed. Crowder bumped no. 34 so he lost momentum and he still almost got him at his feet.

Look I'm sorry but I just cannot sit here and say that Haskins is a statue and his 40 time is why he's never going to make it as a QB. He's proven that he's got a level of athleticism that allows him to extend plays. As the season went on last year and he got more comfortable with the playbook, it was very evident that he wasn't thinking as much. That is his biggest issue right now. When you have to constantly think about what you're trying to do, it slows you down. You can't react or feel the pressure. You don't simply react based on what your instincts are telling you, you have to process everything in your mind. The best QBs don't have to think about every step of a play because they're so accustomed to what they're trying to do that it just comes natural. Haskins is 3 games into a new playbook with a new OC / HC / QB coach. If he's still doing these same things in 6 weeks, then I'm assuming Rivera and co have a serious decision to make.

As Win4us said, he's not a scramble first guy. He's likely not even a scramble 3rd guy. He's a scramble when there's no other option guy, and unfortunately we've run into that scenario a fair amount. If you watch him, he very rarely ever puts his head down and runs the way Darnold did too. He's almost ALWAYS moving while looking to pass. He generally is looking downfield when he's running and only actually goes when he can't throw. If you want Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray out of Haskins it's never going to happen, so to avoid further disappointment you may want to readjust the expectation. If you look at Haskins and want more Ben Roethlisberger, it's a much more realistic viewpoint.

 

[Boone]

I think Haskins is actually quite athletic. I know the current idea of the ideal NFL QB sets guys like Mahomes and Murray as the model. Haskins will never be that kind of QB. But I’ve actually been calling for more designed runs for Haskins precisely because he is a big physical athletic kid. He isn’t ‘slow’, again unless we are comparing him to those freakishly speedy and elusive types of QBs.

I also think we’d be remiss if we didn’t acknowledge he is probably in the best shape of his life right now and more agile than when he came into the league.

I think concerns over his accuracy and mechanics far outweigh concerns over his speed and quickness. But even there, he completed over 70% of his passes in his last season at OSU... but he hasn’t yet adjusted to the NFL. He may never adjust, but I don’t see how those who call him inaccurate so easily dismiss his college performance (even if it was just one great season). He hasn’t been accurate as a pro, but I’m not sure that means he can’t be?