Morris time. For several reasons.

[Goaldeje]

Let's wait until Gruden has been here years before we accuse him of wasting years

Well, it's been a year and a half at this point. Can we consider last year ANYTHING other than a waste? Seems to me it took a year to evaluate Griffin and discover he wasn't a good fit, and so we reset with Kirk this year. So I suppose I shouldn't have said wasted "years", but wasted "year" certainly seems apropos at this point, and I don't think it's a stretch to think that may very well turn plural shortly.

Look - first Gruden was supposed to alter his offense to *fit* RG3. Now he's supposed to adjust his offense to *fit* Alfred Morris and Darrel Young. Is there anyone else we want to add to the list? How does that even work? He didn't draft these guys and honestly, there may be some examples of coaches adjusting to a particularly special talent, but let's not act like NFL coaches having a belief in their system and offensive philosophy is some kind of aberrant behavior - it's not.

I don't think changing up your offense to maximize the talent of a guy who has proven it year in and year out since he's been in the league is crazy. Sorry, I just don't. And I understand that most NFL coaches have a belief in their system - the SUCCESSFUL ones do adjust though. Look at Belichick for God's sake. And then compare with that with Chip Kelly. So far, I see a lot more of Chip Kelly in Gruden than I do of Bill Belichick, and sadly without any of the offensive genius.

As Parcells said, you are what your record says you are. And Gruden's record says he sucks. Not that he isn't good - that he flat out sucks. If I were him, I'd be trying my damndest to figure out how to get the guy with 3 1k yard seasons back on track, not trying to force a rookie with fumbling problems the ball.

But I guess that's why I'm not smart enough to be an NFL Coach.

No one wants to hear it - but if you want more carries, hit the hole with authority and play better. I love Morris, but he's not doing anything dazzling this year that would compel any coach to think he can carry the load. He wasn't great last year either.

He got the job done last year though. He may not have been fantastic, but he was effective, which is more than we can say for Jones or Morris this year. I didn't watch the game yesterday, but a 2.7 ypc blows (or whatever the number actually was). El said he had a nice 10 yard burst and a nice catch and run. Two nice plays doesn't counteract the rest of the suckage, sorry.

Anyway, doesn't matter in the end. I suspect we'll be looking to fill a hole at RB this off season. Because, you know, we don't have enough holes to fill.

 

[Boone]

You do know that it took Bill Belichick 4 years as Browns head coach to even break .500 right? And the next year he got canned after winning just 5 games. And I'm sure the whole way the fans were screaming he was incompetent. So that's kind of an unfortunate comparison to make.


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[Henry]

You do know that it took Bill Belichick 4 years as Browns head coach to even break .500 right? And the next year he got canned after winning just 5 games. And I'm sure the whole way the fans were screaming he was incompetent. So that's kind of an unfortunate comparison to make.

That was pre-salary cap era. Teams turned over a lot slower back then.

I agree with Goal on this (shocking, I know).

From what I can tell, Gruden's (or Callahan's or whoever's) running attack seems to be composed of "lets try this guy ... ok, now let's try this guy ... screw it. Let's throw it!"

I'm sure it's far more sophisticated than that, but that's how it looks. And that's how it's producing. Our running game isn't just kinda worse or something. It's a flat-out disaster. It's embarrassingly bad. How many one-point wins do you think we are going to eke out on Cousins' arm?

It shouldn't be like this. Not with the backs we have. Eight games in, I don't think it's the players.

 

[Elephant]

El said he had a nice 10 yard burst and a nice catch and run. Two nice plays doesn't counteract the rest of the suckage, sorry.

Problem is...those 2 runs are far better than anything Morris has done in 3 or 4 games now. I still like Morris and think the Philly game is a good indication of not giving up on the run like we have done over the past 4 games...yesterday, we were down 17-0 quick so being patient probably wasn't an option.

 

[Boone]

The salary cap point is relevant in terms of how long coaches are given to succeed and it may make it possible for teams to turn it around more quickly. It has no bearing on whether final coaching assessments after a season and a half are correct. Goal brought up Belichick as an example of a great coach - his 'anti-Gruden'. I think the irony there is pretty powerful given Belichick's early success level. And even in the modern era, a head coach deserves a couple of seasons to develop. We have a patchwork OL with multiple first time starters - and you guys are surprised we aren't a top 5 run game? Why? How many will we win? More than last year. And if our WRs can learn to hold onto the ball, we might win some by more than a point.


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[Henry]

Top five run game? Who said anything about a top five run game?

The Redskins have the 27th ranked run game. They are 28th in yards per attempt. This is Year Two.

In Year One, the Redskins were ranked 19th and 14th, respectively.

The year before Gruden took over? The Redskins were ranked 5th and 3rd.

I suppose this all would make sense if the passing game picked up the slack, but we are currently ranked 20th in passing yards and 27th in yards per attempt. Again, the worst rankings in both categories over the past three years. Overall our offense this year is 29th in yards and 28th in points. Again, remarkably, significantly worse than either of the previous two seasons.

This doesn't even factor in 2012 because that season apparently doesn't count.

So what I'm saying is, if you continue to change your scheme and take carries away from a proven 1000 yard rusher and then your running game drops like a stone, that may not have been the best plan.

Do I want top five? Oh no. I'd take top 15 at this point. Hell, top 20.

Our running game is gone. It's been completely decimated.

Do I want Gruden fired? No. There's no point. I do think he has been trying to fix something that wasn't broken and now it IS broken. And that's too bad. What we should do about now, I have no idea. Wait and hope he eventually figures it out.

 

[Goaldeje]

Belichick showed progress. They won the division the year before he was fired. How many years will have to pass before Gruden is offered a HC job if we can him this year? I'm going to be charitable and say somewhere between 5 and never.

I feel like we had this exact same argument last year about a different position. We went into 2014 feeling pretty good about the QB position, and left the season feeling depressed. Now the exact same thing is happening with the RBs. And it's not like we drafted two guys and they both look good on paper, but turns out they can't play at all (looking at you Thomas and Kelly). Nope, we HAVE A MULTIPLE YEAR 1K YARD RUSHER ON THE ROSTER. And we brought in a kid who looks like he could be really good.

But now neither of them look really good. In fact, as Henry pointed out, our rushing game looks like something from Spurrier's time here. So is it possible that both backs secretly suck? Uh, I guess it's possible, sure. But given that one of them has performed exceedingly well for 3 years now, I have a hard time swallowing that he forgot how to run. I would buy the injury argument, but Jones doesn't look any better.

El (not picking on you, promise) tells me that Jones had two nice plays which is two more nice plays than Morris has had recently. To which I would remind you that Jones had three times the touches Morris did Sunday. And two good looking runs is nothing to get excited about anyway. I can remember Morris having two really nice looking runs on one drive. Multiple times.

Yeah, THAT Morris.

Anyway, look at the stats Henry posted. I'm not sure who else to blame than the coaches and the scheme. I mean, I guess both RBs could suck, is that the alternative?

 

[Smoot Point]

First 2 weeks of the season, we HAD a top 5 running game and a top 5 run defense... That's exactly the type of game that would make McCloughan happy and make me think that there is hope for this coaching staff. However, since we have sucked (as Henry pointed out above)... What happened? How did this transpire? Don't give me excuses... What caused you to change the positive direction you had as a coach going into the season?

I mean, check out this article from Sept 02, 2015 (Washington Post): PressReader.com - Connecting People Through News

3rd & 4th paragraph states:

When Gruden, General Manager Scot McCloughan, offensive coordinator Sean McVay and offensive line coach Bill Callahan huddled early this offseason to determine what they wanted the offensive identity to be, the group agreed on a physical, smashmouth brand of football.

They wanted to pound the ball, establishing the run game, and then planned to build off of that using the play-action passing attack. Such and approach, the men believed, would maximize the strengths of the units and also ease pressure on Griffin, the projected starter, while he improved as a pocket passer.

Other than Griffin not starting... WTF happened to this plan? We're left without an identity... If there is a reason to fire Jay Gruden, this is it. We'll never win with him at HC if he can't stick to a plan. I can see them deviating from plan once or twice due to situations, but deviating for 6 games?

 

[Henry]

I don't think anyone is saying Gruden and Scot are saviors (well some people are but not Boone). I'm just hearing calls for patience, which I totally get. It's why I said I don't think we should fire Gruden. We simply can't afford the turnover right now. We have to wait it out and let Scot's players and Grudens schemes percolate and hope things develop positively. I get that.

Until then, however, I am going to point out when I think one or the other is doing something I don't think is working. That's all.

 

[Bulldog]

Before we fire Gruden, let's get some quality talent in place and see what he does with it.

The Redskins don't have a prime back right now. The team doesn't have a true #1 receiver like Dez Bryant or Julio Jones that scares a defense and causes double coverage mismatches elsewhere down the field.

On defense, Terrance Knighton started off like gangbusters the first several weeks but has been invisible recently. Now we understand he has debilitating migraines that prevent him from being able to practice or play at 100%.

Stephen Paea so far has been an outright bust.

The idea was to start Paea and Hatcher at DE and bring in Chris Baker as a rotation guy to help out.

In reality, Chris Baker has been the team's best DL the first half of the season and is the starter.

Paea has been on the bench and Hatcher once again is having knee problems at age 33.

Jeron Johnson was signed to play safety and he has been a backbencher until this past Sunday. You don't sign a veteran guy in free agency and expect him to come in and be a backup to a career special teamer in Trenton Robinson.

So, to Gruden's case Scot McCloughan has to do a bit better job with the defensive personnel.

We know that is not Gruden's side of the ball and the front office is largely responsible for the picks and free agents.

 

[Elephant]

El (not picking on you, promise) tells me that Jones had two nice plays which is two more nice plays than Morris has had recently. To which I would remind you that Jones had three times the touches Morris did Sunday. And two good looking runs is nothing to get excited about anyway. I can remember Morris having two really nice looking runs on one drive. Multiple times.

But the 2 nice plays Jones had were in the same amount of touches to that point as Morris. We can go back and forth on this forever, the bottom line seems to be that Lavaou was a much bigger piece in the success of the run game early and looking through some of the images I took of the first 2 games of the season, I have to say they show Lavaou making holes, leading downfield and crunching people. I mean...that seems to be when the run game went south.

 

[Smoot Point]

Jones will be here for a few more years to prove himself... He has more physical upside than Alfred Morris has, but he isn't ready to take "the guy" mantle from Alfred. Anyway, Jay Gruden is screwing the whole thing up for both players. If you are going to have a punishing running game, there should be enough carries for both backs to get more than 12-15 carries. Jay Gruden talks a good game, but delivers nothing. Fire his arse.

 

[Goaldeje]

Jones will be here for a few more years to prove himself... He has more physical upside than Alfred Morris has, but he isn't ready to take "the guy" mantle from Alfred. Anyway, Jay Gruden is screwing the whole thing up for both players. If you are going to have a punishing running game, there should be enough carries for both backs to get more than 12-15 carries. Jay Gruden talks a good game, but delivers nothing. Fire his arse.

I cannot begin to tell you how interested I am to see what we do this weekend. I think the Saints are beatable. VERY beatable. IF we stick to the run and establish the ground game, something Gruden has been averse to because... well, actually I'm not sure why he is opposed to that. If he goes all pass crazy against NO, I'm hoping that will be enough to convince folks he needs to go. If he runs the shit out of the ball, I'll hold my tongue for a bit.

 

[Henry]

If we are seeing an upward trend with this team, I'd like to think we can pull out a game against the Saints. They are no pushovers, having gone 4-2 since that 0-3 start, but they have weaknesses. Their defense is horrible and they are pretty bad on the road (and we are pretty good at home.) We HAVE to get the run game going against them. This is probably the last team we'd want to get into a shootout with.

 

[Neophyte]

Let's wait until Gruden has been here years before we accuse him of wasting years

Look - first Gruden was supposed to alter his offense to *fit* RG3. Now he's supposed to adjust his offense to *fit* Alfred Morris and Darrel Young. Is there anyone else we want to add to the list? How does that even work? He didn't draft these guys and honestly, there may be some examples of coaches adjusting to a particularly special talent, but let's not act like NFL coaches having a belief in their system and offensive philosophy is some kind of aberrant behavior - it's not.

No one wants to hear it - but if you want more carries, hit the hole with authority and play better. I love Morris, but he's not doing anything dazzling this year that would compel any coach to think he can carry the load. He wasn't great last year either.

What do you mean "how does that even work?"? You were here for the Gibbs years, Boone. You know how that works. Gibbs I was a study in making the pieces you have work, not bitching about what you are missing. It is the difference between Great Head Coaches, Hall of Fame Head Coaches, and the also rans like Norv "What we do works" Turner. Yeah, it works if you have the Triplets and Larry Allen. Now show me what you can do without those guys.

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. What is the motto I have heard from the Marines..."Adapt. Improvise. Overcome."? That used to be a staple in Washington. We were the guys who figured it out first and made changes, often before the half, to fix issues that were keeping us from winning.

This frustrated us during the Turner years. Again during the Spurrier years. A bit even during Gibbs II. And it is killing me right now during the Shanahan and Gruden years. The difference is now guys are calling for cutting Jay some slack until he has "his players". No! Damn it, no! The guy is getting F-U money to field a winning team. Find the best 11 on offense and the best 11 on defense then figure out what system puts those guys in the best position to win. None of this "What we do works" bullshit. Coach, damn it. And if they can't coach, get out and let someone else earn their money.

Maybe I'm spoiled by having lived through Gibbs I but I've seen a guy throw his whole "system" out the window because he didn't have the players to run it, come up with something that works, and go win a Super Bowl with it. If Jay wants to be a Great Coach, he will do the same. If he doesn't do it, he is yet another pretender.

PS - this probably has a sharper tone then I meant it to have. I'm just frustrated. If I sat around waiting for all the right pieces to drop into my lap for me to do my job at the highest levels, I'd get fired so I don't have a lot of patience with coaches who can't, not when I see NE work around the pieces they have available every week and win. Sure, having Brady helps but he doesn't play defense and they do it there too. And on Special Teams. They adapt game to game, quarter to quarter and sometimes play to play.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Maybe we can build a fight song around those words.

"Wait and hope for old DC!"

Wait for the Redskins
Hope we succeed
Fans attending therapy
Wins are what we need

 

[Goaldeje]

What do you mean "how does that even work?"? You were here for the Gibbs years, Boone. You know how that works. Gibbs I was a study in making the pieces you have work, not bitching about what you are missing. It is the difference between Great Head Coaches, Hall of Fame Head Coaches, the also rans like Norv "What we do works" Turner. Yeah, it works if you have the Triplets and Larry Allen. Now show me what you can do without those guys.

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. What is the motto I have heard from the Marines..."Adapt. Improvise. Overcome." That used to be a staple in Washington. We were the guys who figured it out first and made changes, often before the half, to fix issues that were keeping us from winning.

This frustrated us during the Turner years. Again during the Spurrier years. A bit even during Gibbs II. And it is killing me right now during the Shanahan and Gruden years. The difference is now guys are calling for cutting Jay some slack until he has "his players". No! Damn it, no! The guy is getting F-U money to field a winning team. Find the best 11 on offense and the best 11 on defense then figure out what system puts those guys in the best position to win. None of this "What we do works" bullshit. Coach, damn it. And if they can't coach, get out and let someone else earn their money.

Maybe I'm spoiled by having lived through Gibbs I but I've seen a guy throw his whole "system" out the window because he didn't have the players to run it, come up with something that works, and go win a Super Bowl with it. If Jay wants to be a Great Coach, he will do the same. If he doesn't do it, he is yet another pretender.

PS - this probably has a sharper tone then I meant it to have. I'm just frustrated. If I sat around waiting for all the right pieces to drop into my lap for me to do my job at the highest levels, I'd get fired so I don't have a lot of patience with coaches, not when I see NE work around the pieces they have available every week and win. Sure, having Brady helps but he doesn't play defense and they do it there too. And on Special Teams. They adapt game to game, quarter to quarter and sometimes play to play.

Co-signed.

 

[Boone]

You guys sound a little overwrought. I love all of you but Jesus, just relax. We're exactly a season and a half into the Jay Gruden era, and exactly one draft into the Scot McCloughan era, we've got new coaches across the board, and the comparisons you guys set the bar with are Bill Belichick and Joe Gibbs - two HOFers (both of whom had rough starts btw). You guys think that's reasonable - seriously?

We'll add more talent in the next several years. If we can stay calm and keep our coaching staff together, the players will learn the scheme and we'll have the horses to execute it. Things will get better. We're improved over last year - almost across the board except for the run game, and I chalk most of the challenges there up to injuries and falling behind early in games and not being able to stick with it as we'd like. I'm not convinced our season is over yet - but hey, wail on. I'm going to stay positive.

 

[MikeSr619]

In a year and a half under Gruden I can't say "this is our identity" because there is none. At least when Gibbs and Bellichek came in they had a clear vision and just needed time to get the right people in place. I can't even tell you if we are a passing first or running first team.

We have thrown the ball 309 times
We have run the ball 201

Are we a run first team to set up the pass? Or are we a pass first team to spread out the defense? We don't seem to have a clear answer to that and that is what frustrates me most. As a leader of the team I expect them to make that decision...even if its the wrong one. At least make some sort of clear cut decision and stick to it.

 

[Miles Monroe]

I'd never set the bar as high as Bill Belichick and Joe Gibbs, Gruden has never exuded the confidence those guys did as new head coaches. I would go as far as setting the bar with the Harbaugh brothers, Rex Ryan, Sean Payton, and Mike Tomlin. All first time head coaches that had very successful teams in their first two seasons or less, and didn't have 5 seasons to have competitive teams, which is what many feel Gruden should get.

We may sniff the playoffs in a few years with Gruden at this rate of Coach / QB / team development.

Edit: should have added Coughlin to that list too....