Morris time. For several reasons.

[TomE]

Everyone already has the answers to their own questions, no sense in keeping this up.

Just know something has to start working, the new Oline needs to get better, the RB's need to see better and the calls need to better take advantage of our player's skillset .

The defense should be able to get off the field quicker this weekend and give our offense more opportunities.

Say what?

Patriots don't need much time to do their thing.

That'll give us extra time to develop our new running game

 

[Om]

To keep my positions here focused ... I'm forwarding two thoughts only.

One, and specific to the thread, I think Alfred is off. I don't know why--injury, something off-field we haven't heard about, whatever--but I don't see the same physical player from the last three years. I see him going down on first contact a lot, I'm not seeing him making people miss, I don't see the decisiveness or explosion I'm used to. He doesn't seem "on" to me. I do not blame him for the overall running game woes, there are clearly other issues there. It's simply my observation of Alfred Morris and how he's been running the ball since the Rams game.

And two, more of an Ivory Tower thing ... I don't subscribe to the theory that an NFL team has to designate a primary back in order to field a successful running game. I think NFL history is littered with examples of teams that fielded strong or at least complementary running games by committee. And since I believe that, along with my feelings/observations about Alfred noted above, I'm comfortable, at least based on what I've seen through seven games, with the coaching staff rotating running backs and looking for a spark. If and when one of the three guys is on a roll and making some yards on their own, I suspect we'll see that guy get the bulk of the carries.

Now off to find another beer. At 7:22 in the morning. Because I'm working at home and life is good.

Sláinte.

 

[TomE]

Hard to believe the downturn after the first two games, Mojo is missed.

 

[Henry]

To keep my positions here focused ... I'm forwarding two thoughts only.

One, and specific to the thread, I think Alfred is off. I don't know why--injury, something off-field we haven't heard about, whatever--but I don't see the same physical player from the last three years. I see him going down on first contact a lot, I'm not seeing him making people miss, I don't see the decisiveness or explosion I'm used to. He doesn't seem "on" to me. I do not blame him for the overall running game woes, there are clearly other issues there. It's simply my observation of Alfred Morris and how he's been running the ball since the Rams game.

And two, more of an Ivory Tower thing ... I don't subscribe to the theory that an NFL team has to designate a primary back in order to field a successful running game. I think NFL history is littered with examples of teams that fielded strong or at least complementary running games by committee. And since I believe that, along with my feelings/observations about Alfred noted above, I'm comfortable, at least based on what I've seen through seven games, with the coaching staff rotating running backs and looking for a spark. If and when one of the three guys is on a roll and making some yards on their own, I suspect we'll see that guy get the bulk of the carries.

Now off to find another beer. At 7:22 in the morning. Because I'm working at home and life is good.

Sláinte.

I don't really have a problem with any of that. While I understand a committee is sometimes necessary, I think having one guy who can shoulder the load is preferable for a numb of reasons. But let's just go committee for now:

And let's then also assume Morris is off. Why is he getting the ball at all then? Why not just put Jones, the hand-picked perfect-back-for-this-scheme in the backfield and let him run wild? If Morris is off and Jones is our future, why isn't Jones having himself a year? I realize Jones has been hurt, but he hasn't been hurt all season long, has he? If there's something wrong with Morris I would think Jones would be getting the ball a lot more.

Frankly, there's just no scenario here that makes a ton of sense, unless you really think this team's OL is just THAT much worse than it was last year, which even with our injuries I find hard to believe.

 

[Goaldeje]

Yeah, that's what I don't get. At first, I can admit due to my fondness for Alfred I was irritated when Gruden split carries. But now neither back is performing, so what's the point in that? If Gruden loves Jones, give the kid a lot of carries, let's see what he can do, ESPECIALLY since Alfred is underperforming.

I really hate the "strategy" of throwing both of them out there hardly long enough to break a sweat before sitting them in favor of the other guy to see if one of them catches fire.

 

[Om]

I'd like to think Gruden/Callahan are splitting carries because they believe Morris and Jones both have skills and that either one is capable of "getting going" at any point. Absent hard evidence of anything else, I think the coaches are going with gut instinct. It's what coaches do--not just these coaches but across the league.

I know some believe otherwise--that there are cap considerations, favorites being played, etc. And while no one can disprove any of those theories, there is no evidence to support any of them either. I try to avoid believing in things unsupported by evidence.

With that, I think I'm done here. At least until after the next game.

 

[MikeSr619]

I think Gruden would give Jones all the carries if he could. But Matt is fumbling in the end zone and is now hurt so its hard to fully justify running 2 players in to the bench the same way.

 

[Goaldeje]

Full disclosure, I did not see one minute of the game yesterday. I see that Alfred had four touches and Jones had 13 touches, but did nothing with those touches; at least that's what the stats say. That's a pretty low number of rushes for a game where we all figured ball control was going to be of paramount import. Regardless of where you come down on the Morris v Jones thing, what's up with the rushing attempts?

I've heard and read a lot about the drops, but can someone who saw the game shed any light on the running game for me?

 

[Boone]

We ran it slightly better than in recent games. The holes were at least perceptible. And at a casual glance Morris looked slightly better but I'd say Jones looked more explosive when he wasn't fumbling the ball. Bottom line - we blinked our eyes and were down 17. While we didn't abandon the run its tough to go run heavy at that point. And there were so many missed opportunities that resulted in 3 and outs or 3rd and long situations that we couldn't get any kind of offensive rhythm going. I believe of the first 24 offensive plays in the game, 23 were run by NE and the Redskins had 1. That give you an idea how it went?


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[Goaldeje]

Yeah, that helps, thanks. Sounds like NE anticipated the ball control offense and tried to quickly negate it. Any idea why the disparity in carries?

 

[Smoot Point]

We're a team that has no identity since the 2nd/3rd game of the season... We started to form one in the 1st few games, to show teams we would push them around... It made me think that this team was better than a 2-3 win team. However, they've lost all identity by moving away from guys like Morris & a stronger running attack. We don't win if both Morris & Jones get fewer than 12-15 carries each (**** EDITING THIS POINT BECAUSE I MISSTATED THIS EARLIER **** HatTip: Elephant). We won't get more than 4 wins if we don't find this identity again. If you are down by 17 against the Patriots early in the game, it's even more of a reason to not give into the temptation to change your identity. Just before the half, you score a FG and you get the ball to start the 2nd half... Why have you abandoned the running game? OK, you go down 20-3 and you have the ball... It's early in the 3rd quarter. Why have you abandoned the running game? Has what you've been doing working this game? Yeah, it worked against the Buccaneers, because they suck. You aren't going to beat the Patriots this way... Change something up!

We have a coach who won't take us to the playoffs, or even a winning record.

 

[Elephant]

Yeah, that helps, thanks. Sounds like NE anticipated the ball control offense and tried to quickly negate it. Any idea why the disparity in carries?

Not sure why Boone saw Morris as the better rusher....but I thought Jones was hitting the holes better.

Anyway, here's a breakdown by Q:


Morris:
1st Q: Morris had 2 carries for 6 yards.

2nd Q:Morris had 1 carry for 3 yards.

All 3 carries were on 1st down, he ran 4, 2 and 3 yards each time.

Jones:

1st Q:
No Carries

2nd Q:
6 carries for 26 yards.
He had runs of 10, 2, 3, 6, 2 and 4 yards.
1 rec for 12 yards.

Based on the 1st half production, Jones should have come out in the 2nd half as the RB...gotta go with the hot hand.

Morris:

3rd Q: 1 rush for 1 yard

Jones:

3rd Q: 2 rushes for 2 yards and a fumble
1 Rec for 5 yards

4th Q:
Neither had a touch in the 4th Q.

While not much better by any means, Jones did have a couple of nice plays...his 12 yards reception and a 10 yard run where he burst through the hole. Morris did not really have much to work with except his 4 yard run looked a little more like the Almo of old...he hit the small hole and picked up 4 when he should probably only have gotten 2.

To me, it just looks like Jones has much more burst when there is an opening. Too bad the kid fumbled...again.

 

[Elephant]

We're a team that has no identity since the 2nd/3rd game of the season... We started to form one in the 1st few games, to show teams we would push them around... It made me think that this team was better than a 2-3 win team. However, they've lost all identity by moving away from guys like Morris & a stronger running attack. We don't win if both Morris & Jones get more than 12-15 carries. We won't get more than 4 wins if we don't find this identity again. If you are down by 17 against the Patriots early in the game, it's even more of a reason to not give into the temptation to change your identity. Just before the half, you score a FG and you get the ball to start the 2nd half... Why have you abandoned the running game? OK, you go down 20-3 and you have the ball... It's early in the 3rd quarter. Why have you abandoned the running game? Has what you've been doing working this game? Yeah, it worked against the Buccaneers, because they suck. You aren't going to beat the Patriots this way... Change something up!

We have a coach who won't take us to the playoffs, or even a winning record.

Part of that identity you spoke of, that you say we can't win if we do rush them both 12-15 times was the Rams game where both players rushed for 18 and 19 respectively. Morris had 59 yards and Jones had 124, we won.

I agree with your premise we need to get one of them going, but you said we can't win in that situation and not only did we win...we won handsomely.

 

[Smoot Point]

Part of that identity you spoke of, that you say we can't win if we do rush them both 12-15 times was the Rams game where both players rushed for 18 and 19 respectively. Morris had 59 yards and Jones had 124, we won.

I agree with your premise we need to get one of them going, but you said we can't win in that situation and not only did we win...we won handsomely.

You caught me on a typing error... What I meant to say is both RBs should be getting 12-15 carries per game. I think Morris should be the RB who has the most, but it's more about team identity than it is about a single player...

So, I "misspoke" above... Thanks for catching it. If you look at the entirety of the post, you'll see that I was speaking about not abandoning the running game... yet, the statement that you hit upon was totally opposite of that view. Thanks again.

 

[Elephant]

You caught me on a typing error... What I meant to say is both RBs should be getting 12-15 carries per game. I think Morris should be the RB who has the most, but it's more about team identity than it is about a single player...

So, I "misspoke" above... Thanks for catching it. If you look at the entirety of the post, you'll see that I was speaking about not abandoning the running game... yet, the statement that you hit upon was totally opposite of that view. Thanks again.

And I acknowledged that...I agree, we need to run more. However, we won against Tampa throwing a lot, we won against the Rams by running a lot, and we beat the Eagles by not giving up on the run altogether after Morris was held to short yardage gains throughout the first half. It was in the 4th quarter when we took over that game and won on that long final drive because we wore them down.

I think the Eagles game is what you're talking about when you mention identity...I agree with that and want to be that team. I like the idea of run it down their throats when they know you're going to run it.

However, the good teams don't have a singular identity. Look at the Pats...they have been throwing the ball all season long...yesterday they ran it down our throats. They play to their competition's weakness...which is an identity of sorts, I guess. But they win doing whatever it takes, no singular method.

Now, I know comparisons to the Patriots is unfair, Tom Brady is one of the greatest of all time, but I think you get my point.

 

[Elephant]

Is it possible our o-line just isn't very good at run blocking? When Shanny was here, they weren't good at pass blocking, but the scheme had good run blocking.

Maybe it's scheme. Or the injuries, but most teams have one or two guys out on their o-line due to injury in many games during the season.

We're not progressing...and, folks can keep telling me we are, but it ain't looking like it.

Progressing doesn't mean we are better across the board...you know that, right?

QB play is far better than last year, pass pro is far better than last year, defensively we are better than last year, special teams is better than last year.

Now...we are 3-5 at the same point we were 3-5 last year. Do you really think this team goes 0-6 to end the season again? I see enough progress to say we won't...we can revisit this at the end of the season.

You have expressed your frustration about not turning things around like other teams have. I share that frustration, but organizations like our's, that have been mismanaged for years? They don't turn it around faster.

 

[Bulldog]

My guess is if Gruden returns in 2016 you won't see either Alfred Morris or Darrell Young.

Gruden wants running backs like Giovanni Barnard that can run, hit the edge and also catch passes out of the backfield.

If a guy's on the field he wants to be able to call any play for the backs, he doesn't want to telegraph run or pass with situation substitution.

The problem for Gruden is that Matt Jones has not shown that he can be a reliable back in the league yet.

So the team could still be looking for another back in 2016.

Gruden doesn't have much use for a fullback in his system and Young is like a hood ornament on this offense right now. You see him with his uniform on but he isn't being asked to do much.

 

[Goaldeje]

My guess is if Gruden returns in 2016 you won't see either Alfred Morris or Darrell Young.

Gruden wants running backs like Giovanni Barnard that can run, hit the edge and also catch passes out of the backfield.

If a guy's on the field he wants to be able to call any play for the backs, he doesn't want to telegraph run or pass with situation substitution.

The problem for Gruden is that Matt Jones has not shown that he can be a reliable back in the league yet.

So the team could still be looking for another back in 2016.

Gruden doesn't have much use for a fullback in his system and Young is like a hood ornament on this offense right now. You see him with his uniform on but he isn't being asked to do much.

This is the kind of shit that drives me nuts (not you BT - the thought process). We have a historically proven RB and FB, but God forbid Gruden alter his scheme to accommodate their strengths. Instead, you're probably right BT, we'll be looking for another RB next year. Which, if we had all the rest of the pieces on place would be fine. But now we're talking about adding to an already long list, at a position we all thought was a strength 2 months ago.

Awesome.

Tr1 is right. Gruden better have the greatest show on turf part deaux once he gets the pieces in place. Otherwise we will have wasted years but also parcelled off productive football players with proven abilities and track records.

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[Boone]

Let's wait until Gruden has been here years before we accuse him of wasting years

Look - first Gruden was supposed to alter his offense to *fit* RG3. Now he's supposed to adjust his offense to *fit* Alfred Morris and Darrel Young. Is there anyone else we want to add to the list? How does that even work? He didn't draft these guys and honestly, there may be some examples of coaches adjusting to a particularly special talent, but let's not act like NFL coaches having a belief in their system and offensive philosophy is some kind of aberrant behavior - it's not.

No one wants to hear it - but if you want more carries, hit the hole with authority and play better. I love Morris, but he's not doing anything dazzling this year that would compel any coach to think he can carry the load. He wasn't great last year either.

 

[Boone]

Not sure why Boone saw Morris as the better rusher....but I thought Jones was hitting the holes better.

I didn't say that and I don't think that. Jones burst out of the backfield and the physicality with which he is hitting the holes is superior to Morris. I think it has been most of the season. Morris is tentative. I just said that I thought Morris was slightly better than in recent games yesterday (compared to his own previous performances, not Jones - sorry for the misunderstanding). We just fell behind so quickly there was no way either guy was going to get a huge number of chances.